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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#150126
midnight tea

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Edited to add:  Wow it sounds like I hate him.

 

I don't.  I think he's a fascinating character.  BUT.  I think the writers focused too much on trying to make us sympathize with him, instead of realizing that our own characters are the ones who are actually hurting the worst in that situation!  And that's... kind of a bad mistake to make.

 

But that's sort of the thing - I think it's pretty much intended for Inquisitor to be a wounded party (like... literally and not :P). Even if we're on friendship/romance route we're NOT supposed to fully sympathize with Solas at the end of the base game or Trespasser; he will be the antagonist, or at the very least the faction we're supposed to work against. Whether he himself likes it or not he's trying to do something drastic and something that will hurt people, including his friends or lovers. Giving us an absolute conviction that Solas can indeed be redeemed or saved or anything that doesn't involve terrible punishment for him would sort of defeat the purpose of building up the story the way they did - because there would be no tension. At this point the story and Solas makes so many people reeling or sad because we don't really know what he he's going to do; if he's going to cross the point of no return... Plus, we don't really know the details of his plans.

 

However, I do disagree with many of your assessments. 

 

I understand precisely what is supposed to be tragic about Solas, but he's the catalyst for all the bad things that he's planning to bring about.  He split with Lavellan.  His plans are likely to kill her.  Same for how he treated Friend!Inquisitor.

 
In light of that, it's silly to feel worse for him than the Inquisitor, especially once the Inquisitor is informed of what Solas is planning.
 
I don't feel bad that Solas will have to live with his guilt; he's fully intending to bring it upon himself.  All he has to do to avoid it is not end the world a second time, or find another way to achieve his goals that will not be as catastrophic.  He's certainly intelligent enough to find such a solution if one exists.

 

Er... that's the thing - he's intelligent and he had arguably whole millenias to think about new solutions. He didn't find one, or at the very least he didn't find one he deemed to be worth the tremendous risk, or one he trusts will work. Therefore saying that "all he has to do to not end the world is find another solution" sounds rather naive. He did search. He didn't find much, if anything at all. Therefore he now feels he has no choice. That's the source of tragedy for this character.

 

 

That's why, to me, Solas is... not really tragic at all.  He could be a good person, but he's turning himself into a monster by his own choices.  In the sense of a Greek tragedy, he's tragic.  In the sense of "do I feel sorry for him?"  No.  I don't.

 

What's with the assumption that it's all about his choices? He oftentimes tells us that he has no choice, or at the very least he can't find one. And it's not that I'm trying to say that someone makes all the choices for him, but both his past and circumstances put him in a situation where he feels he HAS to follow the din'anshiral - he tells Mythal that he should pay the price, but at the very same time he tells her that the People need him. We don't know what he means exactly, but considering that the Veil is his creation, and he's possibly the only Evanuris-like being who is still left in teh world with his body and mind relatively unscathed, he could be like Inquisitor - the only person with tools to do or save something.

 

He also makes Cole forget where he's going because "the fate is his alone. He wouldn't wish it on an enemy, much less to a person he once cared for." Which brings us to...

 

Now look at the Inquisitor, particularly romanced Lavellan.  She's been taught her entire life to avoid the Dread Wolf, to defend her clan against him.  She is caught by him unawares, falls deeply in love, and then he leaves.  And she never knows why.  He doesn't send letters, he doesn't contact her in any way, not even in the Fade.  Then when he shows up again, it's to tell her he is trying to destroy everything she knows and cares about.  Everything she worked to save, he'll destroy.  Now, at this point you can do what I'd probably do and tell him it's totally over, or, if you're a hopeless romantic you can cling to the possibility you can somehow change him or save him.  Then you are a sad, desperate fool clinging to the idea that the power of love and/or friendship will show him the light and change his wicked ways...

 

Yes, because every Inquisitor at the very last scene in Trespasser who befriended or romanced him is a weeping mess instead of a proactive character who goes to Tevinter to find people he doesn't know, or declared to Solas that "our friendship is all you need!" instead of "I will prove you that the world doesn't have to be destroyed". As much as I think friendship/love and extending that to Solas is important (even judging from Trespasser itself), I don't think either player or characters are naive enough to think that Fen'Harel will back away from his plans if he's going to get enough hugs.

 

Anyway - as much as it sucks for Lavellan or a friend to be abandoned, you're making it look as if Solas is unaware that he's hurting them. But what if that hurt is still thousands of times better than the hurt that will befall them if he stays close to them? Not only Solas tells Cole that he will try and save people he cares about from a fate that awaits him - he pretty much explicitly tells that to romanced Lavellan.

 

"I can't do that to you, vhenan. I walk the din'anshiral - there is only death on this journey"

 

What's more he underlines after he breaks up with her that he was thinking selfishly, or was about to ask her of something that was - form his perspective - utterly selfish. Probably something that would doom her the same way he is or thinks he is. In that scenario even her death - or her hate - would be far better for him to stomach then sentencing her to a fate he wouldn't wish on an enemy (and he sent  his enemies - the Evanuris - to be tormented for eternity :mellow:).

 

This is the source of tragedy when it comes to Solas and people he cares about - he feels that he can only hurt them. He yearns for connection, but he's convinced that people who get close to him will only get hurt, probably no matter of the outcome of his world-changing plans.


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#150127
Qun00

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You honestly believe that Solas "has no choice"?

That he couldn't at least try to accept the simple fact that civilisations rise and fall? And if he did that, the next step would be to search for a place in this new world.
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#150128
Baboontje

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As much as I think friendship/love and extending that to Solas is important (even judging from Trespasser itself), I don't think either player or characters are naive enough to think that Fen'Harel with back away from his plans if he's going to get enough hugs.

 

This little sentence made me laugh way more than it should have.

 

dr-evil-crying1.gif


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#150129
midnight tea

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You honestly believe that Solas "has no choice"?

That he couldn't at least try to accept the simple fact that civilisations rise and fall? And if he did that, the next step would be to search for a place in this new world.

 

I honestly believe that the path he's on is not as simple to step away from if he just decides he wants to. He's bound to his mission, both by his past, his guilt as well as surrounding circumstances, if not people who still await for him to save them.

 

Also - how many times do we have to go though this? This is NOT about the rise and fall of a single civilization. Heck, even Solas tells to Dorian, very casually that "empires rise and fall. Elvenhan wasn't any better than Tevinter at its time". So how can you make it about how he's all about his beloved Empire or something? He's not.

 

What he can't get over is the fact that the Veil he created - ostensibly to prevent Evanuris from doings something terrible - cut most people's connection from the Fade, which negatively influences both realms. That is what it's all about - not about crystal spires twining through the branches and palaces in the clouds. Solas has already sacrificed this once for the world and people to survive - what makes you think he cares about it now?

 

Plus - it's easy to say "find a place in this new world" if Thedas was in relative peace, not threatened by either conflicts inside it or ancient threats lurking in dark places and swarming the surface every few centuries or so. Solas appears to know that something is coming - be it the endless Blight or else. He tells to Varric that the Wardens bought them some time. He tells Blackwall that he'll remember people 'fighting against the tide' - which realistically couldn't be his actions, since they didn't yet create an active threat people have to fight against. He says in future Redcliffe that if Inquisitor goes back there will be still time to "save them" - who "them" is we don't know yet, but apparently either he or the world are running out of time. There's no "finding a place in a new world" when this world he probably sees as doomed anyway, whether he does something or not. At this point it appears to be about survival.


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#150130
midnight tea

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This little sentence made me laugh way more than it should have.

 

dr-evil-crying1.gif

 

Well let's make it into a Twitter hashtag and make it trend! :D

 

#HugsForFenHarel


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#150131
Baboontje

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Well let's make it into a Twitter hashtag and make it trend! :D

 

#HugsForFenHarel

 

I would! But....I don't have a twitter account. :ph34r:



#150132
Brass_Buckles

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But that's sort of the thing - I think it's pretty much intended for Inquisitor to be a wounded party (like... literally and not :P). Even if we're on friendship/romance route we're NOT supposed to fully sympathize with Solas at the end of the base game or Trespasser; he will be the antagonist, or at the very least the faction we're supposed to work against. Whether he himself likes it or not he's trying to do something drastic and something that will hurt people, including his friends or lovers. Giving us an absolute conviction that Solas can indeed be redeemed or saved or anything that doesn't involve terrible punishment for him would sort of defeat the purpose of building up the story the way they did - because there would be no tension. At this point the story and Solas makes so many people reeling or sad because we don't really know what he he's going to do; if he's going to cross the point of no return... Plus, we don't really know the details of his plans.

 

However, I do disagree with many of your assessments. 

 

 

Er... that's the thing - he's intelligent and he had arguably whole millenias to think about new solutions. He didn't find one, or at the very least he didn't find one he deemed to be worth the tremendous risk, or one he trusts will work. Therefore saying that "all he has to do to not end the world is find another solution" sounds rather naive. He did search. He didn't find much, if anything at all. Therefore he now feels he has no choice. That's the source of tragedy for this character.

 

 

 

What's with the assumption that it's all about his choices? He oftentimes tells us that he has no choice, or at the very least he can't find one. And it's not that I'm trying to say that someone makes all the choices for him, but both his past and circumstances put him in a situation where he feels he HAS to follow the din'anshiral - he tells Mythal that he should pay the price, but at the very same time he tells her that the People need him. We don't know what he means exactly, but considering that the Veil is his creation, and he's possibly the only Evanuris-like being who is still left in teh world with his body and mind relatively unscathed, he could be like Inquisitor - the only person with tools to do or save something.

 

He also makes Cole forget where he's going because "the fate is his alone. He wouldn't wish it on an enemy, much less to a person he once cared for." Which brings us to...

 

 

Yes, because every Inquisitor at the very last scene in Trespasser who befriended or romanced him is a weeping mess instead of a proactive character who goes to Tevinter to find people he doesn't know, or declared to Solas that "our friendship is all you need!" instead of "I will prove you that the world doesn't have to be destroyed". As much as I think friendship/love and extending that to Solas is important (even judging from Trespasser itself), I don't think either player or characters are naive enough to think that Fen'Harel will back away from his plans if he's going to get enough hugs.

 

Anyway - as much as it sucks for Lavellan or a friend to be abandoned, you're making it look as if Solas is unaware that he's hurting them. But what if that hurt is still thousands of times better than the hurt that will befall them if he stays close to them? Not only Solas tells Cole that he will try and save people he cares about from a fate that awaits him - he pretty much explicitly tells that to romanced Lavellan.

 

"I can't do that to you, vhenan. I walk the din'anshiral - there is only death on this journey"

 

What's more he underlines after he breaks up with her that he was thinking selfishly, or was about to ask her of something that was - form his perspective - utterly selfish. Probably something that would doom her the same way he is or thinks he is. In that scenario even her death - or her hate - would be far better for him to stomach then sentencing her to a fate he wouldn't wish on an enemy (and he sent  his enemies - the Evanuris - to be tormented for eternity :mellow:).

 

This is the source of tragedy when it comes to Solas and people he cares about - he feels that he can only hurt them. He yearns for connection, but he's convinced that people who get close to him will only get hurt, probably no matter of the outcome of his world-changing plans.

 

There's almost always a choice.  The only way Solas doesn't have a choice is if he is geased to someone else, in which case his choice has been taken away from him.  He could choose to let go of the past.  He could choose to let go of Thedas.  He could choose to let the spirits be as they are.

 

Again, I don't hate Solas.  Actually despite what I personally would have done (or at least, what I think I would have done--if I had actually been emotionally entangled to the level my Lavellan was, my choices might have been similar), my Lavellan stuck with him (I think it's usually folly to think you can change someone, so unless she can change his path without trying to change him, her efforts are doomed to fail).  Why?  Because I want to see him rescued from whatever abyss he's trying to crawl into.

 

And no, Solas hasn't been mulling over his current plan for millennia.  Remember that his original plan was diverted when he was unable to reacquire his orb.  He had to change tactics, and his goals may not be the same now.  Could he have developed it as a contingency plan?  Of course.  But I'm sure there are other options, and Solas, despite his intelligence and his available centuries for pondering the topic, can sometimes fail to see things right in front of his nose.  Such as the fact that creating the Veil might have some dire consequences for the people he meant to protect via that action...

 

And to be fair to Solas, I will say this:  It's entirely possible that the Veil needs to come down for reasons we don't know.  Thedas itself might be in danger.  As a matter of fact, it was, due to the Breach--a tear in the Veil may be worse for the world than simply ripping the whole thing down.  Or it may be that both result in similarly terrible consequences.

 

I almost believe that the real reason Solas feels he MUST remove the Veil (and unless Thedas is going to end without his doing so, he doesn't actually have to) is because of what it's done to spirits.  I mentioned in a previous post that he seems to be, in many ways, more about freedom than he is about pride or wisdom--yes, he likes knowledge and understanding, and he's certainly afflicted with hubris.  However, he's also seen how the spirits have been trapped away from the waking world, and how that has harmed them.  Considering he views spirits as people, as a matter of fact, if his plan helps them, it will be helping more people than it harms--at least if one assumes that there are more spirits than there are people, which is entirely possible given the scope of the Fade.

 

As for "staying will only hurt his friends/loved ones," again, that is a choice Solas is making.  He is choosing to walk the path that he walks, because he is choosing to remove the Veil and do whatever else it is he plans to do.  He therefore chooses to distance himself, because yes, he will indeed likely hurt anyone close to him.  It's already clear that he will kill even his dearest, oldest friend if that benefits his goal.  I think he'd kill Lavellan as well, no matter how unhappy that may make him.

 

One size doesn't fit all as far as stories go, that's true enough.  However, it's also true that certain situations call for certain reactions to be believable.  Even some of the options we had to react to Solas seemed a bit "inhuman," so to speak.  Which is fine if you're playing a sociopath, but not so much so if you're trying to play as a relatively believable character.  Even if the Inquisitor is angry about Solas's declarations, there's probably hurt underneath that, or at the very least shock.  And yes, the Inquisitor deserves more sympathy than he/she was really allowed to have... but I think part of that is because he/she is a blank slate character.  It's both a blessing and a curse.

 

My honest opinion as to why there's this lopsided focus goes beyond the Inquisitor being intended as a blank slate though.  I think it is in large part because as Solas's writer, Weekes himself began to feel sympathetic toward Solas, and he wanted the audience to see what he saw in Solas.  That there's someone who could, given the right circumstances, be genuinely good and kind... but for whatever reason, Solas is convinced that the path he is taking is the only right way, and it puts him at odds with pretty much everyone else in Thedas.  And okay... I get that.  You get attached to your characters.

 

But I do wish there were more means to explore what the Inquisitor is going through, without resorting to fanfiction.  At the end of Trespasser, you've lost your hand and you've lost your Inquisition (even if you didn't disband it, it's now rendered toothless).  While I'm not saying we should feel sorry for the Inquisitor for becoming disabled, it's bound to make life more difficult.  You've lost that shiny hand power, and now you've got to adjust to missing a limb.  It won't be easy.  If you were a friend to Solas, you have, no matter how intent you were on rescuing him from himself, lost your friend, because even if he hopes you succeed in changing his mind or finding another way, he's still going to do what he's doing and you're still opposing him.  If you romanced him, you lost your beloved, only to be tormented by him showing up in your dreams like a kicked puppy.  And you lost him for the self-same reasons that a friend Inquisitor would:  you now oppose him regardless how much you just want to change his mind and make him see reason.  And he's still going to try to spy on you to stop whatever efforts you may make, because no matter how much he wants you to change his mind, he's still planning to do what he planned to do all along.

 

And it still all comes down to choice.  Solas even makes it clear himself that it might be possible for you to change his mind if he told you too much--so he tries to tell romanced or friended Inquisitors very little.  So again, unless he is unknowingly under a geas, there's no invisible or unknowable barrier to him changing his mind and simply not destroying the world a second time.  It might, for reasons we don't know, not be ideal for him.  It might even endanger Thedas if he doesn't (because after the Breach, it's likely the Veil is weakened, and perhaps someone else will try a similar feat yet again).  But it's still a choice and he still has options.


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#150133
Solas

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[skrrRRREEees from a clifftop about 6k]


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#150134
myahele

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Agreed. Solas' does have a choice. He champions free thought after all. The good thing about that is that he's will to be "proven wrong" and seems to have a open mind to potential change his mind about his decision.



#150135
Illyria

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[skrrRRREEees from a clifftop about 6k]

 

Dad! You've returned to us!


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#150136
Addictress

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I can't get over this image UGH

Spoiler

 

I know it is anathema to Solas but this looks so gorgeous *cries*


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#150137
myahele

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Somebody was able to recreate Solas via Character creator

 

39-3-1418893571.png



#150138
Elessara

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Somebody was able to recreate Solas via Character creator

 

 

 

Sorry, other than being bald and having pointy ears that really doesn't look anything like Solas to me.  Also, no eyebrows.


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#150139
dawnstone

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[skrrRRREEees from a clifftop about 6k]

Welcome home, threaddad! <3 :wizard:


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#150140
dawnstone

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Somebody was able to recreate Solas via Character creator

 

Trying being the operative word. Nice stubble. :lol:



#150141
Solas

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I'm going to need to take your other hands away this time vhenans, cough them up.
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#150142
myahele

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Here's one that's slightly closer

maxresdefault.jpg


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#150143
dawnstone

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I'm going to need to take your other hands away this time vhenans, cough them up.

Hahaha, come and get it bruh. :P


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#150144
NightSymphony

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I can't get over this image UGH

Spoiler

 

I know it is anathema to Solas but this looks so gorgeous *cries*

Sooo pretty! I want this picture without the Vallaslin.


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#150145
Avejajed

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(I was aiming for Teagan so I could annoy him his whole life by yelling whooooo issss tees woahman teeeeagahn every time he brought a date home. Husband said no. Then I gave him the wiki and told him to pick a name for the other. He then told me no more dragon age for awhile. ;) )
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#150146
Qun00

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As a non-native speaker, I usually can't tell accents apart but the way Isolde says "Teagan" really stands out...
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#150147
Uirebhiril

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(I was aiming for Teagan so I could annoy him his whole life by yelling whooooo issss tees woahman teeeeagahn every time he brought a date home. Husband said no. Then I gave him the wiki and told him to pick a name for the other. He then told me no more dragon age for awhile. ;) )

 

 That's it, we are now new best friends.

 

And really? He didn't like Alistair or Garrett or anything? Perfectly respectable names! You may have had to deal with your son asking why he was named after a bumbling fool or a total nutjob, but, you know. Minor details.



#150148
Baboontje

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(I was aiming for Teagan so I could annoy him his whole life by yelling whooooo issss tees woahman teeeeagahn every time he brought a date home. Husband said no. Then I gave him the wiki and told him to pick a name for the other. He then told me no more dragon age for awhile. ;) )

 

Hahahahahaha! YAAASSSS! *wipes away tear*

 

Now I want this. But I just know people here are going to be dumb and butcher the pronunciation. They can't handle names that are too English.



#150149
Qun00

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Garrett?

tumblr_lj3lpgzRwW1qfx5g4.gif

#150150
CapricornSun

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Art post,

 

'A losing battle' by nipuni. Solavellan balcony scene with Lavellan imitating Solas' posture.  :wub:

 

Another artwork of man bun Solas by nipuni. <3

 

'Born to be free'. Edit of smiling Solas with vallaslin.  :o

 

Gorgeous bust of Solas by thaali. <3

 

Ancient Elven Water Polo Solas (And/or bathing cap.) :P

 

Lavellan, Solas, and Dorian.

 

Cullen, Solas, and Samson done for the emoji meme.


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