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[midnight tea]

Regarding the argument that Solas' goal is strictly about people, not the intertwined crystals and palaces in the skies.

A strange statement, considering that is exactly what his plan entains. Bringing back elven glory, power, immortality and everything that made Elvhenan great (minus Evanuris).

If such things truly don't matter, why not focus all his efforts on the modern elves? Why look back instead of forward?

 

Er no, you must have not been listening. He said he will bring "the world of the elves" - the Veilless world - he didn't say anywhere he would bring back anything the shape of Elvenhan. Even if the civilization would eventually rise to be as beautiful or powerful, it will not be the Elvehnan Solas knew... and that's assuming that "the world of the elves" would be the same as it was before. Like, what if he will refrain from killing or enslaving/mining Titans? What if he will prevent people from ever gaining powers like those of Evanuris?

 

And no - this is not about glory and power per se; this is about making people - and spirits - complete. You realize that with the Veil how it is, both of the sides suffer; they don't understand each other, and the fear people have to the other sides brings about demons. The gentler spirits, like Compassion or Wisdom, are few and possibly even on the way to extinction. And both sides influence one another; Solas explained it in banter with Cassandra - people are to blame for giving birth to bad spirits and not doing much to foster good ones. There's a sort of positive feedback loop going on.

 

Eventually there will be little else than bad or small spirits, and they will make the living a nightmare - and that's assuming that this is just so much going on, while we have reasons to suspect that each living person has a spirit, which at one point or another gets born into the world as a person. And since their spirits are small, corrupted or crooked, they have smaller chances to actually becoming something great. I'm actually fairly confident this is why SOlas looks at this world with pity and compares them to Tranquil - the cutting of conscious connection to the Fade leaves them fearful and not understanding of the Fade and spirits and because of that neither can grow, be it on one side or another. I guess this could be vaguely connected to effects of inbreeding.

[Qun00]

I don't understand your point. Please expound further.

Yes, just removing the Evanuris wouldn't necessarily have made the empire crumble at the time, if that's your point. Its crumbled now, though, regardless. And Solas hasn't said a thing about wanting to restore the old glory of the empire, or w/e. He has only ever mentioned restoring what he took from the elves in terms of their connection to the Fade. Removing the veil will give them back that connection. It won't automatically resotre the empire. The survivors could decide to make a republic or go full anarchy or live in nomadic tribes. Nothing about the veil being gone would promote one over the other.

I meant that the fact that Solas doesn't want to bring back their tyranny doesn't mean he isn't interested in the rest.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I meant that the fact that Solas doesn't want to bring back their tyranny doesn't mean he isn't interested in the rest.

"The rest" being, what? Magical buildings? Cool libraries? 

[Sifr]

The only problem with the old empire was the Evanuris leadership. Elvhenan still is Elvhenan without them.

 

The Evanuris were one problem, the Tevinter-esque slavery and Orlesian-style decadence was apparently another.

 

Also whatever mischief it was that the Forgotten Ones might have gotten up to? Actually since we've learned what the Evanuris were really like, this makes me wonder more about them, especially after hints were dropped in Hakkon and Trespasser.

 

What if the Forgotten Ones were in reality failed rebel leaders and political prisoners who opposed the Evanuris' tyrannical rule, stripped of form like Mythal and given damnatio memoriae? Kind of takes the notion of demonising your opposition to a whole new level when it did become this in the elven belief system from what we can gather.

[thaali]

Quick question, do all Dalish clans have a herd of Halla?

Also what does a hearth mistress do?

[midnight tea]

What if the Forgotten Ones were in reality failed rebel leaders and political prisoners who opposed the Evanuris' tyrannical rule, stripped of form like Mythal and given damnatio memoriae? Kind of takes the notion of demonising your opposition to a whole new level when it did become this in the elven belief system from what we can gather.

 

That's what I've been suspecting ever since the Trespasser - the Forgotten Ones might simply be people who Evanuris considered as enemies. Could also explain how Solas could be one of Creators and Forgotten Ones as well.

[Illyria]

Quick question, do all Dalish clans have a herd of Halla?

Also what does a hearth mistress do?

 

Yes.

 

And she tends the hearth, I'd assume?

[thaali]

Yes.

 

And she tends the hearth, I'd assume?

 

I'd have suspected she'd do more but I guess with a large group of people hearths are important... maybe she over sees other stuff too, like crafting?  Or I could be over thinking it.  I wish we knew more about Dalish clans.  There is tons of mythology but we know next to nothing about the people themselves it feels like.

[Ghost Gal]

I'd have suspected she'd do more but I guess with a large group of people hearths are important... maybe she over sees other stuff too, like crafting?  Or I could be over thinking it.  I wish we knew more about Dalish clans.  There is tons of mythology but we know next to nothing about the people themselves it feels like.

 

Sylaise sounds like a carbon copy of the Hestia, Greek Goddess of the hearth. Their personalities even seem similar too: homebodies who're described as more peaceful and demure than the other gods. (Though who knows the real story behind Sylaise.) A little supplemental material, the hearth was considered a very important symbol in ancient Greece and Rome because it was literally "the heart of the home," provided light, warmth, a way to cook food, a center of family activity (back before electric lights), etc. Apparently every hearth in every home had Hestia's symbol which was never to be smudged or erased, and when a new baby was born into a family they were supposed to bless the baby with Hestia's symbol, and the baby wasn't considered properly "christened" until this happened--much like Christening new babies or small children for the various Christian religion.

 

It's possible that the Dalish have a sacred hearth in each Clan to honor Sylaise--and they tend this sacred hearth as a way to show their religious devotion to her, much like how the Andrastians have burning statues of Andraste and tend the burning statues to show their religious devotion to her.

[Sifr]

That's what I've been suspecting ever since the Trespasser - the Forgotten Ones might simply be people who Evanuris considered as enemies. Could also explain how Solas could be one of Creators and Forgotten Ones as well.

 

They could have been the ones the Evanuris were fighting during the great war that Solas' mentioned. But rather than being the bad guys or even aggressors in the conflict, the Forgotten Ones happened to be side that lost in the end.

 

To quote a great line from Mal in Firefly;

 

"May have been on the losing side... still not convinced it was the wrong one."

[maia0407]

Regarding the argument that Solas' goal is strictly about people, not the intertwined crystals and palaces in the skies.
A strange statement, considering that is exactly what his plan entains. Bringing back elven glory, power, immortality and everything that made Elvhenan great (minus Evanuris).
If such things truly don't matter, why not leave the old behind and focus on improving the new?

Just want to add that recreating the structures of the elven empire would probably require massive amounts of slaves. Trespasser mentions a monument (or something) being built that was crawling in slaves. Solas most definitely won't be bringing back slavery.

[NightSymphony]

A little art break

 

Solas and Lavellan (or is it Trevelyan?)

http://joydart.devia...Dream-604361817

 

You Are Free - removing the vallaslin

http://thursday-rose...-Free-604329225

 

Dragon Age Elf Sketches

http://a-dark-angel....tches-604398013

 

Solas playing with Lavellan's hair

http://allisonsaurus...a-len-604284801

[Elessara]

Just want to add that recreating the structures of the elven empire would probably require massive amounts of slaves. Trespasser mentions a monument (or something) being built that was crawling in slaves. Solas most definitely won't be bringing back slavery.

 

Ok, so *Solas* doesn't want slavery to be brought back ... but he pretty much thinks he's going to die doing whatever it is he's going to do.  All he wants to accomplish really is the removal of the Veil and the restoration of that Fade connection.  Whatever happens afterwards is really not up to him especially if he manages to get himself killed in the process.  However, I don't think the elves themselves will want to bring back slavery either ... or at least they won't be enslaving other elves. 

[midnight tea]

Ok, so *Solas* doesn't want slavery to be brought back ... but he pretty much thinks he's going to die doing whatever it is he's going to do.  All he wants to accomplish really is the removal of the Veil and the restoration of that Fade connection.  Whatever happens afterwards is really not up to him especially if he manages to get himself killed in the process.  However, I don't think the elves themselves will want to bring back slavery either ... or at least they won't be enslaving other elves. 

 

Eh... well, I hope so... but I sort of have the feeling Solas hoped this would happen AFTER he created the Veil - and people proved him very wrong Wouldn't be surprised it was a second time his trust (this time in people in general) was broken and he grew really bitter about it. It could even be what he meant when he said "there are fewer regrets sharper than watching fools squander what you've sacrificed to achieve".

 

Then there's also a possibility that Solas wants to restore the world of the elves, but without certain element i it. I mean.. what if he plans to lock himself and all Evanuris/those who wield specific type of magic somewhere and isolate them from the world to never tempt anyone with such power?

[Elessara]

Eh... well, I hope so... but I sort of have the feeling Solas hoped this would happen AFTER he created the Veil - and people proved him very wrong Wouldn't be surprised it was a second time his trust (this time in people in general) was broken and he grew really bitter about it. It could even be what he meant when he said "there are fewer regrets sharper than watching fools squander what you've sacrificed to achieve".

 

Then there's also a possibility that Solas wants to restore the world of the elves, but without certain element i it. I mean.. what if he plans to lock himself and all Evanuris/those who wield specific type of magic somewhere and isolate them from the world to never tempt anyone with such power?

 

I did say I didn't *think* the elves would enslave other elves.  They could disappoint me.

[thaali]

Sylaise sounds like a carbon copy of the Hestia, Greek Goddess of the hearth. Their personalities even seem similar too: homebodies who're described as more peaceful and demure than the other gods. (Though who knows the real story behind Sylaise.) A little supplemental material, the hearth was considered a very important symbol in ancient Greece and Rome because it was literally "the heart of the home," provided light, warmth, a way to cook food, a center of family activity (back before electric lights), etc. Apparently every hearth in every home had Hestia's symbol which was never to be smudged or erased, and when a new baby was born into a family they were supposed to bless the baby with Hestia's symbol, and the baby wasn't considered properly "christened" until this happened--much like Christening new babies or small children for the various Christian religion.

 

It's possible that the Dalish have a sacred hearth in each Clan to honor Sylaise--and they tend this sacred hearth as a way to show their religious devotion to her, much like how the Andrastians have burning statues of Andraste and tend the burning statues to show their religious devotion to her.

 

 

Oooohhh interesting thoughts on it.  Thanks for sharing.

[Qun00]

"The rest" being, what? Magical buildings? Cool libraries?

And everything that makes ancient elves different from.modern elves.

[dawnstone]

B/c his name was mentioned here, it reminds me: Who wants to start a betting pool about whether Voth is an agent of Fen'Harel? lol I may just be being paranoid and seeing them everywhere now and I blame Solas entirely, but he's so quiet and mysterious. I don't think we ever really hear how Sutherland met him, he just shows up after the Inquisitor has shown an interest in equipping Sutherland for adventuring and he's completed his first mission. Convenient. Or not really.

 

I honestly hope Sutherland and company make a return in DA4. lol

Voth: Agent of Fen'Harel. His Keeper would have a heart attack, but I guess that's what happens if you follow the three-mage-rule (if that's why he's not with his clan).

 

I kind of doubt he's working for Solas, if he's a guy like Sutherland's BFF, but you never know.

 

The only named Inquisition elves I'm really super suspicious of are Charter and Elan Ve'mal; Charter, because she's a skilled spy capable of working two sides, and Elan Ve'mal the herbalist, because she has an apostrophe in her name that sets off "mal" as in malcontent or malicious, and she has a shady background like Charter. Although, a marginalized elf mage like Minaeve might be ripe for the picking (if she lives), along with that kid that the Chantry sister was telling that the book of Shartan didn't exist, in Haven. Cillian and Neria from the MP game, I think could already be Solas', Neria in particular. Dalish and Skinner both seem like they're loyal to IB over anyone else (unless they're killed), but if they live and Bull still betrays you, they might find themselves at loose ends and join. The rest of them like the Skyhold librarian and Loranil, I think, are a harder call.

 

Outside of the Inquisition, a young elf like Lysas from Redcliffe would probably do what he thought was best for mages in general, so if Solas sold him on that point, rather than elven freedom, he'd have a possible recruit. Hyndel seemed very impressionable, so sure, why not. Older elves maybe not so much. He'd probably have an easier time recruiting Orlesian elves than Ferelden, because history; if he could get Briala on his side he'd have a powerful lieutenant (or enemy if she finds out he killed Felassan. Oh man, I want to see that scenario play out just for the drama).

 

As far as elf companions go it's kind of a toss up. I mean both Fenris and Merrill followed Hawke, who was(is) a walking disaster(and possibly a mage), much like Solas, soooo...

But Velanna and Zevran, no.

Sera, hell no.

Leliana's friend Sketch from Leliana's Song... well, his past is very shady, he was close to Tug, who might have associations with the Titans, they bothered to have a minor quest with him in it in DA2, and he's given attention to even in recent materials like WoT2. I almost want to say he could very well be ancient elf working for Solas.

 

I wonder if Abelas and the Sentinels (if they live), would follow Solas. I guess it depends on Mythal. If they still serve Mythal, and if Solas is being controlled or influenced by her in any way, I'd have to say yes. If not, then maybe.

 

Basically, while every elf might not work for him, I think it is fair for anyone working for the Inquisition, to be suspicious of any elf they have to interact with from the end of Trespasser on. At least in terms of passing around sensitive information inside of the (former) Inquisitor's efforts to stop Solas, and/or figure out what the hell he's doing. Persecuting an entire race, or group of people, never ends well, especially if you're trying to create a peaceful world.

 

ETA: Although that might be an aspect they'll explore in DA4. How do you trust someone from a group of people you've been told to be suspicious of? How do you overcome that prejudice, when so much is at stake?

Modifié par dawnstone, 22 avril 2016 - 04:38 .

[Addictress]

Do you think Fen'Harel can recruit races other than elves? I mean, if he sets up shadow organizations, like Blackstone Irregulars or Mage Collectives, and then has them run a few non-Solas tasks alongside Solas tasks, then everyone will be game.

 

I was also thinking today... it seems Solas' physical identity is out now. The Viddasala and I'm sure the entire Qun knows what he looks like. Everyone in the South also knows what he looks like. As the final Exalted Council scene is loading, we hear Bann Teagan shout, "Because this SOLAS provoked them in the first place!"

 

His identity is out in the open. And although this is a medievalesque time that doesn't have photos or anything, I still feel like Solas should hide or wear a mask or something, right? He can't just walk around modern Thedas and blast swaths of people before him with stone-turning magic whenever he needs to head to the market. I imagine he needs to live in modern Thedas for a few years at least until he figures out how to bring down the veil.

[Qun00]

He could, but as expendable and manipulated fools.

[Elessara]

Do you think Fen'Harel can recruit races other than elves? I mean, if he sets up shadow organizations, like Blackstone Irregulars or Mage Collectives, and then has them run a few non-Solas tasks alongside Solas tasks, then everyone will be game.

 

I was also thinking today... it seems Solas' physical identity is out now. The Viddasala and I'm sure the entire Qun knows what he looks like. Everyone in the South also knows what he looks like. As the final Exalted Council scene is loading, we hear Bann Teagan shout, "Because this SOLAS provoked them in the first place!"

 

His identity is out in the open. And although this is a medievalesque time that doesn't have photos or anything, I still feel like Solas should hide or wear a mask or something, right? He can't just walk around modern Thedas and blast swaths of people before him with stone-turning magic whenever he needs to head to the market. I imagine he needs to live in modern Thedas for a few years at least until he figures out how to bring down the veil.

 

Well ... the Viddasala and the Qunari don't think he's Fen'Harel, they think he's an agent .. which could still be problematic.  But only the Viddasala and her group would have seen his power first hand and they're all dead.  A lot of people also won't believe the Inquisitor that he's Fen'Harel either, especially the Andrastians.  The Dalish may also be skeptical of a non-elf Inquisitor saying such things b/c what would a shem know about their culture?  Proof is unlikely to be had as Solas now controls the eluvians and I don't really think he'll let you waltz back and forth between the Vir Dirthara.  So whilst Solas's identity may be somewhat compromised I don't know that he'd have to constantly hide himself.  But then important people in this game seem to be wearing flashing neon signs and such.  Seriously how does every random person I come across know my character is the Inquisitor?

[dawnstone]

Do you think Fen'Harel can recruit races other than elves? I mean, if he sets up shadow organizations, like Blackstone Irregulars or Mage Collectives, and then has them run a few non-Solas tasks alongside Solas tasks, then everyone will be game.

 

I was also thinking today... it seems Solas' physical identity is out now. The Viddasala and I'm sure the entire Qun knows what he looks like. Everyone in the South also knows what he looks like. As the final Exalted Council scene is loading, we hear Bann Teagan shout, "Because this SOLAS provoked them in the first place!"

 

His identity is out in the open. And although this is a medievalesque time that doesn't have photos or anything, I still feel like Solas should hide or wear a mask or something, right? He can't just walk around modern Thedas and blast swaths of people before him with stone-turning magic whenever he needs to head to the market. I imagine he needs to live in modern Thedas for a few years at least until he figures out how to bring down the veil.

I think he might be able to acquire non-elven agents that don't know their information is being funneled to him, much like spies do in real life. He didn't give Corypheus the orb, one of his proxies did, and we have no idea how many of those he has, or if they're the ones he's using to spread the news that there is an elven resistance forming. He's done this before, and he knows what methods are likely to be most effective, in terms of guerilla warfare, anyway.

 

I wonder if he's tried to sway elves from the Qun, and discovered they're quite happy in their new roles.

 

It doesn't matter what he looks like, or that his appearance is known, I don't think. Like, if he can operate from the shadows, the Fade, in between worlds, and possibly/probably turn into a wolf at will, Solas won't be seen or found if he doesn't want to be.

 

That might be cool if your character in DA4 is meeting some elf agent or another from Orlais, and they show up wearing a mask, and then it turns out to be Solas fucking with you. Oh my god, I'd stab the computer. I love him but... if he showed up for anyone but my quizzy. XD 

 

ETA: Top!Solas Not top anymore XD

[Qun00]

Sometimes I'm amazed at how childish people can be.

I was watching a compilation with all dialogue options during the vallaslin cutscene and there were these comments from people saying they don't like the sad dialogue option because it makes Lavellan look weak. And the angry option is better because she gets to walk away first.

Really. At a moment like that, Lavellan's first concern would be to show him who's boss. I may be wrong, but that is the mindset you have when it's just a meaningless fling.

Well, not that I'm suggesting that the Inquisitor should drop to her knees and beg, but a little vulnerability is harmless. Especially because although she doesn't know everything, it's easy to tell that it's difficult for Solas and he is not doing it out of whim.

[Elessara]

Sometimes I'm amazed at how childish people can be.

I was watching a compilation with all dialogue options during the vallaslin cutscene and there were these comments from people saying they don't like the sad dialogue option because it makes Lavellan look weak. And the angry option is better because she gets to walk away first.

Really. At a moment like that, Lavellan's first concern would be to show him who's boss. I may be wrong, but that is the mindset you have when it's just a meaningless fling.

Well, not that I'm suggesting that the Inquisitor should drop to her knees and beg, but a little vulnerability is harmless. Especially because although she doesn't know everything, it's easy to tell that it's difficult for Solas and he is not doing it out of whim.

 

You don't understand!  Only the player is allowed to do the breaking up!  I mean, who does he think he is to dump the PC?!  HOW DARE HE!!!  And the PC can never be weak or vulnerable!  They are the hero of the story, the leader of the Inquisition, a super special snowflake not burdened by things like heartbreak or insecurities!

 

Yes, I'm joking.  And no, those are definitely not the only reasons someone might pick an angry option at the break up.  But that is exactly what some people think about their PC.

[Addictress]

I think he might be able to acquire non-elven agents that don't know their information is being funneled to him, much like spies do in real life. He didn't give Corypheus the orb, one of his proxies did, and we have no idea how many of those he has, or if they're the ones he's using to spread the news that there is an elven resistance forming. He's done this before, and he knows what methods are likely to be most effective, in terms of guerilla warfare, anyway.

 

I wonder if he's tried to sway elves from the Qun, and discovered they're quite happy in their new roles.

 

It doesn't matter what he looks like, or that his appearance is known, I don't think. Like, if he can operate from the shadows, the Fade, in between worlds, and possibly/probably turn into a wolf at will, Solas won't be seen or found if he doesn't want to be.

 

That might be cool if your character in DA4 is meeting some elf agent or another from Orlais, and they show up wearing a mask, and then it turns out to be Solas fucking with you. Oh my god, I'd stab the computer. I love him but... if he showed up for anyone but my quizzy. XD 

 

ETA: Top!Solas

hhnnnggg

 

Too bad Tevinter isn't the nation that's known for EVERYONE wearing masks. We could've had a "guess who's Solas" thing going on with literally every new NPC we encountered.