153429 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

It's not hidden in the codex. Sarel describes in that dialogue directly why he is angry - he passive aggressively states how the humans broke their promise.  Regarding Elthina, while we like the woman he is nothing more than a symbol of the chantry. The frustrating, immovable brick stuck in the gears of change. And I think the developers both wanted us to perceive that, and demonstrated that.

 

Sarel explains it in a vague way, so you really only understand the historical issues with missionaries and templars if you read the Dalish codex (which is only available to the player who is Dalish; otherwise, they read the Chantry version of events). Therefore, I think it's reasonable to say that it's somewhat hidden because it's incredibly easy to miss.

 

The elves did have development, though. The thing was, our initial impression of them is one of stark black and white victimization. To compensate for this, to flesh them out, they have to provide characters acting out in anger and hatred. But there were definitely plenty of nice elves too. Look at Leah and her father in DA2, who was holed up with that pedo. Or the slave girl we encounter on the way to defeat Adrianna. Look at the abused girlfriend of the elf blood mage we kill by request of Meredith. And the entire alienage of Origins, and its kind Hahren, etc. The bulk and foundation of the elves are oppressed, victimized people. To flesh them out you require characters that react to oppression as people in real life often do - hatred, anger, who carry out often irrational and impulsive actions.

 

They didn't flesh out the Dalish - that's the issue. We don't delve into their religious views, into their difficulties to survive day to day, into their successes and failures, into the best and worst of them. We witness that with Andrastian characters who discuss their faith, and we see variety with them; we don't get the same with the Dalish, who are quite marginalized throughout all three games. It's barely there, and what little there is can be easy to miss (like Merrill elaborating on her religious views during companion banter with Anders).

 

We don't get much insight into the Andrastian elves in Dragon Age II or Inquisition (even though the Dales was the best opportunity to explore their culture in more depth). Certainly nowhere near the scale we do with Andrastian humans.

 

And.. I don't know, I already explained the operation of those flawed characters and what perfect means.

 

Which is why I don't agree when we have characters like Zathrian, Velanna, and Marethari.

[Addictress]

I just had a thought. Notice how Solas literally appears to Lavellan in the form of a wolf in the fade.

Everything in the fade is a reflection of the entities' thoughts and perceptions.

Therefore, his wolf form in the fade must be the result of hundreds or thousands or however many entities he has trapped in the fade, or the memories of Elvehn who've passed into the fade - their perceptions have in turn literally molded his form in the fade into a wolf. And, he said he took the title as a mantle of pride, so his own perception is included.

[LobselVith8]

I am a bit upset that you are so argumentative to the point where you go through responses to you, parse everything, and present even the smallest rebuttal comment with an entire wall of text to read that basically boils down to "Well, I'm still right and I'm gonna beat this horse till you admit it, so there." but hey, Fine. I admit it. You are right that the Dalish are not perfect and they have, in fact, been shown to be jerks in the past. Congrats, I guess?

 

You seem to be upset that I don't share your views on many issues. This current line of discussion took place because I responded to Ghost, and other people chose to respond to my post; no one forced them to. I replied to their posts because they were responding to what I wrote to Ghost. It's also a little difficult to buy into your claim when you've already liked lengthy posts from people who took an opposing position than I did , so you clearly have no issue with someone writing thorough posts or even rebuttals.

 

Admittedly, part of my general concern is Solas' potential impact on the elves of Thedas (since I think he inadvertently may be the plot used by the developers to press the reset button on any elven progress we have made in Inquisition​ due to his goals and his group).

 

If you don't want to communicate with me, simply don't communicate with me. It's really that simple. However, I have no intention on being silent simply because you apparently only want to hear from people you share the same ideas and views with.

[Ellawynn]

I thought Cullen was a lion, because of the helm. But I guess a golden eagle would also work for him. Just gotta love his golden eyes and golden hair, which Alistair also had, actually. I wonder if that's a Fereldan trait. Though Ser Michel of Orlais also had that, so.. is it a half-elf trait? Cullen can't be half elf, right? Right? Hmm...

 

Given that Alistair's blonde hair comes from his father (With Maric and Cailan having even blonder hair) I don't think that's the case.

 

Brown eyes are debatable, I guess?

 

 

A "refreshing fleshing-out" of the Dalish would have necessitated actually fleshing them out. Good, bad, ugly - giving them the same kind of nuance and development that the developers give the Andrastian human characters. You don't point to the developers giving little to no development of a group and act as if the developers gave them the same kind of treatment that they've given the Andrastian humans in their stories.

 

I think the Dalish don't get as much focus as the Andrastian Humans because the story's not about the Dalish as much. I mean, it sounds like you're just sort of complaining that the writers aren't focusing on your favorite faction as much as some others. Which, hey, that's fine. You like the Dalish and wish they had more attention. That's completely valid.

 

But I wouldn't act like it's some great flaw in the narrative. The writers just don't seem as interested in the Dalish as they do in other factions and aspects of the story. They can't realistically give every faction the same level of attention and detail, especially if they're wanting to zero in on certain conflicts like the Mage/Templars.

 

So... I guess I just find it a little silly to ask for the Dalish to have as much attention and detail as Andrastian humans when Andrastian humans are clearly the "main characters," so to speak, of Dragon Age as a whole. No faction's going to get as much attention and balance as them. I mean, it's not coincidence that DA2 forced you to be human, and Inquisition included different races as a laughable after thought. 

 

...I do have to wonder, though, why we don't see this same amount of... fervor, for the other races in the setting. Although I do know one poster on Tumblr who hates everything related to elves and wishes BioWare would drop the Solas plotline so that they can focus on dwarves instead. But that's one person. And I can't think of a single person who does the same for the Qunari.

[lynroy]

OMG! I never see Cullen's lion helmet in my playthroughs. Is it because I had the helmet option turned off??

Because it's not in game. It was used for one trailer to hide the fact that Cullen's mouth was not in sync with the words he was saying.

[Addictress]

Because it's not in game. It was used for one trailer to hide the fact that Cullen's mouth was not in sync with the words he was saying.

Wow this mystery has been solved thx

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

You seem to be upset that I don't share your views on many issues.

I stated what I was upset about quite clearly and that was not it.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure I was responding to your constant rehashing of how Addictress was wrong to say the narrative had treated the elves in a "perfect" fashion, by the definition of perfect that you are clinging to. I wasn't even aware you'd responded to Ghost Gal. And I told you you were right. You have proven your case. I am agreeing with you. Take it graciously, would you?

[LobselVith8]

I think the Dalish don't get as much focus as the Andrastian Humans because the story's not about the Dalish as much. I mean, it sounds like you're just sort of complaining that the writers aren't focusing on your favorite faction as much as some others. Which, hey, that's fine. You like the Dalish and wish they had more attention. That's completely valid.

 

I'd prefer more nuanced depictions when we do meet the Dalish, and I simply don't think that's been done. I find it lacking. I don't think the Dalish are alone in that regard, however; I also think the Dales could have focused more on Andrastian elves, considering that TME reads the majority of the population is elven and Asunder reads that humans were leaving the Dales en mass.

 

I suppose another part of it is also how Lavellan is treated, and the abundant negativity that surrounds the character from Andrastian characters, that also shapes how I feel about everything in retrospect. I do know that Dwarven and Vashoth fans also got the short drift with their respective Inquisitors as well, and I think they deserved better as well (they're also overdue for a dwarven love interest).

 

But I wouldn't act like it's some great flaw in the narrative. The writers just don't seem as interested in the Dalish as they do in other factions and aspects of the story. They can't realistically give every faction the same level of attention and detail, especially if they're wanting to zero in on certain conflicts like the Mage/Templars.

 

I certainly think the developers are more focused on Andrastian humans and their society, rather than the Dalish, the dwarves, or the Vashoth. Maybe that's an indicator that I likely wouldn't be satisfied with the future Dragon Age game because I find no real entertainment in Andrastian culture, especially after Inquisition.

 

So... I guess I just find it a little silly to ask for the Dalish to have as much attention and detail as Andrastian humans when Andrastian humans are clearly the "main characters," so to speak, of Dragon Age as a whole. No faction's going to get as much attention and balance as them. I mean, it's not coincidence that DA2 forced you to be human, and Inquisition included different races as a laughable after thought. 

 

I think you're addressing quantity while I'm addressing quality. Let me try to clarify what I mean: I'm addressing the same nuance - the same willingness to show diversity and depth for the Dalish that the developers have shown to do, numerous times, with Andrastian characters. My criticism is that I don't think they've been willing to show the same depth for the Dalish that they have with Andrastian characters the times we've encountered them.

 

...I do have to wonder, though, why we don't see this same amount of... fervor, for the other races in the setting. Although I do know one poster on Tumblr who hates everything related to elves and wishes BioWare would drop the Solas plotline so that they can focus on dwarves instead. But that's one person. And I can't think of a single person who does the same for the Qunari.

 

There are plenty of fans who enjoy the dwarves and the qunari - wonderful posters like Ethereal Writer Redux and DragonFlight who have eloquently addressed their own criticisms of the handling of the dwarves and the dwarven Inquisitor. Given that this is a thread about an elf who has made an impact on the lives of the elves living in Thedas, it's simply that more elven related commentary will show up here.

[Addictress]

@lobselvith8, I'm not dancing away I just think I said all I can. But I appreciate the points u made, made me think or at least try to clarify my original post somewhat.

[LobselVith8]

@lobselvith8, I'm not dancing away I just think I said all I can. But I appreciate the points u made, made me think or at least try to clarify my original post somewhat.

 

I understand. I appreciate your willingness to discuss the matter with me civilly, even though we clearly don't see eye on eye on the matter. Have a good night, Addictress.

[Ellawynn]

 

I think you're addressing quantity while I'm addressing quality. Let me try to clarify what I mean: I'm addressing the same nuance - the same willingness to show diversity and depth for the Dalish that the developers have shown to do, numerous times, with Andrastian characters. My criticism is that I don't think they've been willing to show the same depth for the Dalish that they have with Andrastian characters the times we've encountered them.

 

 

 

 

I think my point remains the same - They've got less content and the content they have is less developed because the writers just aren't as interested in them. If you're not interested in the Chantry and humans, that's cool too. But it's little like saying the Hobbit is terrible because it's fantasy instead of sci-fi. 

 

So asking for a faction that amounts to a side character to have the same level of content  and/or the same quality of content to the main character is not really going to happen. The main character's always going to have more content, and ideally, they'll always have better content too. They're the main draw, after all.

 

 

 

There are plenty of fans who enjoy the dwarves and the qunari - wonderful posters like Ethereal Writer Redux and DragonFlight who have eloquently addressed their own criticisms of the handling of the dwarves and the dwarven Inquisitor. Given that this is a thread about an elf who has made an impact on the lives of the elves living in Thedas, it's simply that more elven related commentary will show up here.

 

I wasn't saying that people don't care about them. I was saying that there's a considerable portion of the player base that emphasizes the Dalish and the elves above most other things in the setting, something which the dwarves and Qunari don't seem to have. I mean, I go to other forums and sites besides this thread. But the idea of the "Dalish defender" is one I see frequently (I've actually seen it more outside of this thread.). I don't see that a whole lot for the other races. 

[Ellawynn]

Making a separate post because it's unrelated - can someone explain the dwarven love interest thing? For that matter, can someone explain the elven love interest thing? Does it really matter what race the love interest is? I guess I can understand it if the character was particularly shaped by a culture that the player's interested in. But I never understood that "I always romance the elf" thing or "I want to romance a dwarf." That just seems weirdly fetishistic to me.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Making a separate post because it's unrelated - can someone explain the dwarven love interest thing? For that matter, can someone explain the elven love interest thing? Does it really matter what race the love interest is? I guess I can understand it if the character was particularly shaped by a culture that the player's interested in. But I never understood that "I always romance the elf" thing or "I want to romance a dwarf." That just seems weirdly fetishistic to me.

 

Because it is but then again it is not a big deal. People have something that they like, something they are into. Sometimes that can be Elves or Dwarves.

[LobselVith8]

I think my point remains the same - They've got less content and the content they have is less developed because the writers just aren't as interested in them. If you're not interested in the Chantry and humans, that's cool too. But it's little like saying the Hobbit is terrible because it's fantasy instead of sci-fi.

Considering that Origins allowed us to be an elf or a dwarf, I don't find that comparison apt. Dragon Age was not advertised as a tale about Andrastian humanity and the Chantry of Andraste, after all.

So asking for a faction that amounts to a side character to have the same level of content and/or the same quality of content to the main character is not really going to happen. The main character's always going to have more content, and ideally, they'll always have better content too. They're the main draw, after all.

Like Mahariel, Tabris, Surana, or Lavellan?

I wasn't saying that people don't care about them. I was saying that there's a considerable portion of the player base that emphasizes the Dalish and the elves above most other things in the setting, something which the dwarves and Qunari don't seem to have.

Plenty of people criticized the handling of the dwarven protagonist in Inquisition, and the lack of racial content. Fans of the Dalish elves are hardly the only ones who thought that Bioware should give more coverage to the non-Andrastian cultures.

I mean, I go to other forums and sites besides this thread. But the idea of the "Dalish defender" is one I see frequently (I've actually seen it more outside of this thread.). I don't see that a whole lot for the other races.

I don't understand how you've missed the excellent criticisms made by those fans, honestly.

[Ellawynn]

Considering that Origins allowed us to be an elf or a dwarf, I don't find that comparison apt. Dragon Age was not advertised as a tale about Andrastian humanity and the Chantry of Andraste, after all.


Like Mahariel, Tabris, Surana, or Lavellan?

 

 

 

I don't mean the literal main characters. I was continuing the metaphor of the humans being Dragon Age's main faction. The fact that choosing an elven origin doesn't change this goes back to that post I made about how the devs can only react so much to player choices. Rewriting the story so that the focus was on an entirely different faction because the player choose to be part of that faction is an example of a choice that they can't realistically implement. 

 

Besides all that - we all know that the story was never about the Warden. I hesitate to call them the main character when they were basically a camera with legs. And giant sword-swinging arms.

 

Plenty of people criticized the handling of the dwarven protagonist in Inquisition, and the lack of racial content. Fans of the Dalish elves are hardly the only ones who thought that Bioware should give more coverage to the non-Andrastian cultures.


I don't understand how you've missed the excellent criticisms made by those fans, honestly.

 

It's not that I missed those criticisms, it's that you continue to miss my point. There are people who have general complaints about the way dwarves or Qunari were handled. But I rarely see them take it to the same level that Dalish supporters and sometimes mage supporters do. 

 

I mean, hell, only five percent of players picked a dwarven origin in DA:O. I imagine the numbers for Inquisition are similar, and for both the dwarves and the Qunari. 

 

This is irrelevant to the main point, anyway.

[CapricornSun]

Making a separate post because it's unrelated - can someone explain the dwarven love interest thing? For that matter, can someone explain the elven love interest thing? Does it really matter what race the love interest is? I guess I can understand it if the character was particularly shaped by a culture that the player's interested in. But I never understood that "I always romance the elf" thing or "I want to romance a dwarf." That just seems weirdly fetishistic to me.

 

Because we haven't had a dwarven love interest yet? We already have humans, elves, and qunari as LIs; it seems unfair that people who are fans of dwarves and would like to romance one get the short (no pun intended) end of the stick having no dwarf to romance. More variety is always nice so if Bioware adds a dwarf LI in DA4, I think it would make a lot of people who want to romance a dwarf happy.

 

As for the "I always romance the elf" or "I want to romance a dwarf" thing, echoing what Bayonet Hipshot said earlier, people always have something they are into. Maybe it's bothersome for you, but hey, people have preferences.

[LobselVith8]

I don't mean the literal main characters. I was continuing the metaphor of the humans being Dragon Age's main faction. The fact that choosing an elven origin doesn't change this goes back to that post I made about how the devs can only react so much to player choices. Rewriting the story so that the focus was on an entirely different faction because the player choose to be part of that faction is an example of a choice that they can't realistically implement.

 

The simple issue is that I didn't feel your earlier comparison worked precisely because Origins invites you into non-Andrastian cultures as the main character, so that your outlook isn't meant to be focused on only the Andrastian humans. A dwarven Warden coming to Orzammar, for example, is a different experience than Tabris heading to one of the last Great Thaigs in existence, and their people are likely to be their primary concern.

 

Origins was interwoven with the different cultures you could be part of - the dwarves of Orzammar and the nomadic Dalish were two of those choices. Plenty of people came to enjoy these other non-Andrastian cultures, enough so that when the developers initially said Inquisition would be 'human only', many of them made it clear that they wouldn't be purchased Inquisition as a result, and then the developers changed their minds and made the choice to implement different races. Given that, I don't see the point in marginalizing these other cultures, particularly when the developers had opportunities to explore these other cultures in Inquisition - like when the protagonist heads to the Dales and should have encountered the elves of the Dales, instead of more human-centric quests that we already had in Ferelden and Orlais.

 

Besides all that - we all know that the story was never about the Warden. I hesitate to call them the main character when they were basically a camera with legs. And giant sword-swinging arms.

 

It was about the Warden facing the Blight, so I don't see how you can argue that the Warden wasn't the main character. And Origins was an RPG - it kind of defeats the purpose if you're playing as a predefined character.

 

It's not that I missed those criticisms, it's that you continue to miss my point. There are people who have general complaints about the way dwarves or Qunari were handled. But I rarely see them take it to the same level that Dalish supporters and sometimes mage supporters do. 

 

Because you don't seem to venture into those kind of threads because we've had very intelligent and articulate criticisms of how the developers handled dwarven and qunari content from a plethora of people - TEWR being the first and foremost that comes to mind when it comes to the dwarves. Again, you're simply more likely to run across those kind of posts in certain threads, or sometimes outside the BSN because some of those people left due to the excessive trolling that took place during the release of Inquisition (I left for about a long time because of it myself - maybe it's been a year or so).

 

Again, if you're honestly looking for insight into things like a hypothetical dwarven love interest, why not simply ask the dwarven support thread? You'll likely find more answers there than you are in a thread full of people who played as Lavellan. There are a lot of great people who enjoy the dwarves in the same capacity that some of us enjoy the Dalish or the Andrastian elves.

[midnight tea]

The simple issue is that I didn't feel your earlier comparison worked precisely because Origins invites you into non-Andrastian cultures as the main character, so that your outlook isn't meant to be focused on only the Andrastian humans. A dwarven Warden coming to Orzammar, for example, is a different experience than Tabris heading to one of the last Great Thaigs in existence, and their people are likely to be their primary concern.

 

Origins was interwoven with the different cultures you could be part of - the dwarves of Orzammar and the nomadic Dalish were two of those choices. Plenty of people came to enjoy these other non-Andrastian cultures, enough so that when the developers initially said Inquisition would be 'human only', many of them made it clear that they wouldn't be purchased Inquisition as a result, and then the developers changed their minds and made the choice to implement different races. Given that, I don't see the point in marginalizing these other cultures, particularly when the developers had opportunities to explore these other cultures in Inquisition - like when the protagonist heads to the Dales and should have encountered the elves of the Dales, instead of more human-centric quests that we already had in Ferelden and Orlais.

 

They did not. The plan was to go with many races from the start - Gaider said in one of recent interviews that if they've had time, they'd have multiple races for DA2 as well. Thing is they've stumbled on development hurdles. Then they got more time from EA for DAI, but during a year of development they only could add back so much.

 

The other issue is however is that DAO served as an introduction to Thedosian landscape - this is why we had story the way we had; with predominant focus on establishing major faction an races, rather than actual fight with the Blight, which served more as a backdrop to everything else. This is why we got origins stories. This is why we went to seek alliances with dwarves and elves (or why there was so much focus on Qunari in DA2, given that we've seen least of them in DAO). So yes, like Ellawynn said, it wasn't really about the Warden. Through their origins stories we got to know a piece of the world, so they indeed weren't a primary focus on the story. Establishing the setting was.

 

Thing is Inquisition had a different focus - basic facts have already been established. Now it's time to get into nuances. And with so much focus on ancient elves and ancient past I don't really feel the elves were gimped - heck, I've seen quite a few peeps annoyed with how much focus there is on the elves or arguments that it makes more sense to play with elf Quizzy over everyone else, given all the discoveries we make. And it's only going to get more 'elfy' from now on - and more dwarfy too, possibly, given all the hints we get from Inquisition and Descent as well. Qunari won't be pushed into background as well it seems, if Trespasser is anything to go by and we're probably going to get to know more about origins of humanity and humans that are obviously not so tied to the Chantry as Southerns are, considering we're likely going to Tevinter. So on one hand the story will involve more factions, but at the very same time it's obvious that it goes beyond them. After all Solas's plans threaten not just humans, elves or dwarves, but all people - and if Sandal's prophecy is anything to go by... well... everyone will be back to how they were before, after some sort of significant event.

[ladyiolanthe]

Thing is Inquisition had a different focus - basic facts have already been established. Now it's time to get into nuances. And with so much focus on ancient elves and ancient past I don't really feel the elves were gimped - heck, I've seen quite a few peeps annoyed with how much focus there is on the elves or arguments that it makes more sense to play with elf Quizzy over everyone else, given all the discoveries we make. And it's only going to get more 'elfy' from now on - and more dwarfy too, possibly, given all the hints we get from Inquisition and Descent as well. Qunari won't be pushed into background as well it seems, if Trespasser is anything to go by and we're probably going to get to know more about origins of humanity and humans that are obviously not so tied to the Chantry as Southerns are, considering we're likely going to Tevinter. So on one hand the story will involve more factions, but at the very same time it's obvious that it goes beyond them. After all Solas's plans threaten not just humans, elves or dwarves, but all people - and if Sandal's prophecy is anything to go by... well... everyone will be back to how they were before, after some sort of significant event.

 

This is what I hope for, since for DA4 they will:

• not be switching game engines again
• have quite a few assets pre-made from DAI
• have racial meshes pre-made from DAI
• have certain major NPCs' meshes and skins pre-made from DAI

I recognize that they will still have to make new environments, unique meshes for new companions, and new monster varieties, among other things. I will hope that they can come up with a few more hairstyles for everyone who wishes to have more options than DAI offered. But, overall, I think that the bare bones of DA4 construction are in place. And I hope that means they can afford to spend a little more time on nuances, stories, sidequests, etc. Patrick Weekes must be working on some DA4 stuff at the moment, and that bodes well, considering they may not even have got onto level designing or anything yet since MEA and the new IP seem to be higher priority at the moment.

[Qun00]

*Testing*

I keep getting an error when I try to post here.

[LobselVith8]

They did not. The plan was to go with many races from the start - Gaider said in one of recent interviews that if they've had time, they'd have multiple races for DA2 as well. Thing is they've stumbled on development hurdles. Then they got more time from EA for DAI, but during a year of development they only could add back so much.

 

Gaider said in a prior interview that Hawke was envisioned as 'human only' when he explained why multiple races weren't available for the protagonist in Dragon Age II, and he said (before Inquisition was released) they scrapped the originally planned human backgrounds in favor of bringing back different races. I also recall the issues Allan Schumacher brought up for the developers in trying to incorporate racial options during the multitude of threads that came up (in the wake of the 'human only' announcement for Inquisition) and plenty of people voiced their issues with the 'human only Inquisitor' in and out of BSN.

 

Of course, I'm well aware that the developers can give opposing accounts at times, like when Gaider and Kirby gave completely conflicting accounts as to why Leandra was killed.

 

The other issue is however is that DAO served as an introduction to Thedosian landscape - this is why we had story the way we had; with predominant focus on establishing major faction an races, rather than actual fight with the Blight, which served more as a backdrop to everything else. This is why we got origins stories. This is why we went to seek alliances with dwarves and elves (or why there was so much focus on Qunari in DA2, given that we've seen least of them in DAO). So yes, like Ellawynn said, it wasn't really about the Warden. Through their origins stories we got to know a piece of the world, so they indeed weren't a primary focus on the story. Establishing the setting was.

 

If you're addressing Ellawynn's earlier comment, then you mean "main character" (in relation to what I was addressing about the person's post), and I don't see how you can deny that the Warden was the main character of Origins.

 

Thing is Inquisition had a different focus - basic facts have already been established. Now it's time to get into nuances. And with so much focus on ancient elves and ancient past I don't really feel the elves were gimped - heck, I've seen quite a few peeps annoyed with how much focus there is on the elves or arguments that it makes more sense to play with elf Quizzy over everyone else, given all the discoveries we make. And it's only going to get more 'elfy' from now on - and more dwarfy too, possibly, given all the hints we get from Inquisition and Descent as well. Qunari won't be pushed into background as well it seems, if Trespasser is anything to go by and we're probably going to get to know more about origins of humanity and humans that are obviously not so tied to the Chantry as Southerns are, considering we're likely going to Tevinter. So on one hand the story will involve more factions, but at the very same time it's obvious that it goes beyond them. After all Solas's plans threaten not just humans, elves or dwarves, but all people - and if Sandal's prophecy is anything to go by... well... everyone will be back to how they were before, after some sort of significant event.

 

Focusing on elven artifacts or events in history isn't a focus on the elves - it's a focus on inanimate things and moments in time. You don't get to fully understand Briala, you don't get much insight into the elven rebellion, you don't get an opportunity to really get to know elves (not even in the Dales, that is supposed to be predominantly elven, and instead is simply another human-centric area), and you get very little with the actual Dalish.

[Qun00]

You need to look at the glass as half-full, my dear Lobster. The devs have done some things right.

[LobselVith8]

You need to look at the glass as half-full, my dear Lobster. The devs have done some things right.

 

I never claimed they got everything wrong, but I do have issue with how they have handled certain things. Ultimately, it may come down to Dragon Age heading in a direction that doesn't favor dwarven fans like TEWR or DragonFlight or elven fans like Faerunner or myself.

 

In regards to a topic tied to Solas and his plans, Arvaard made a thread addressing the possibility of Solas having a spy in Inquisition (in case anyone hasn't already checked it out).

[Xilizhra]

You need to look at the glass as half-full, my dear Lobster. The devs have done some things right.

Some things, yes, otherwise we wouldn't be here. But it's important to get across what they've done wrong.

[midnight tea]

Gaider said in a prior interview that Hawke was envisioned as 'human only' when he explained why multiple races weren't available for the protagonist in Dragon Age II, and he said (before Inquisition was released) they scrapped the originally planned human backgrounds in favor of bringing back different races. I also recall the issues Allan Schumacher brought up for the developers in trying to incorporate racial options during the multitude of threads that came up (in the wake of the 'human only' announcement for Inquisition) and plenty of people voiced their issues with the 'human only Inquisitor' in and out of BSN.

 

Of course, I'm well aware that the developers can give opposing accounts at times, like when Gaider and Kirby gave completely conflicting accounts as to why Leandra was killed.

 

Yes - HAWKE was envisioned as 'human only'; but Hawke was created ONLY after they figured that they can't have multiple races due to limited development time. At the point Hawke was created, everything about them was human, because that was the only thing they could focus on.

 

Also - not sure how Schumacher bringing up issues in trying to incorporate racial options has anything to do with their lack or not? Explaining the issues with incorporating multiple races is a different thing from not incorporating them.

 

If you're addressing Ellawynn's earlier comment, then you mean "main character" (in relation to what I was addressing about the person's post), and I don't see how you can deny that the Warden was the main character of Origins.

 

You're missing the point. I'm not "denying" that Warden is the main character of Origins - what I'm saying is that the Warden's personal story comes secondary to establishing the setting and introducing myriads of races, racial dynamics and socio-political landscape of Thedas. This is exactly why we have specific origins that acquaint us with humans, mages, elves and dwarves and their place in the world. This is why we are forced by narrative to visit the Circle, Orzammar or the Dalish camp and so on. DAO was basically our 'sightseeing' trip where the character serves predominantly as means for us get acquainted with the setting.

 

And let me be clear - I'm not saying this is bad per se. I think Bioware did a very clever thing in DAO with origin stories, making them both heavily expository and at the same making them feel personal for many people AND leaving us some room for customizing our characters and their story. But as someone who doesn't just like stories, but also is interested with how they work I can see right through author's intents - and the Warden in DAO comes second to our introduction to the world.

 

This is also, I'm pretty sure, why they're allowed to die. The story and the world no longer needs them.

 

 

Focusing on elven artifacts or events in history isn't a focus on the elves - it's a focus on inanimate things and moments in time. You don't get to fully understand Briala, you don't get much insight into the elven rebellion, you don't get an opportunity to really get to know elves (not even in the Dales, that is supposed to be predominantly elven, and instead is simply another human-centric area), and you get very little with the actual Dalish.

 

In what possible way DAI focuses merely on "inanimate things" and "moments in time"? Or are you saying that Mythal, Solas - two frikking elvhen gods, who obviously have plans for the world - are 'inanimate objects'? Is Abelas and Sentinels an inanimate object? Are sentinel-like elves who attack from Tirashan inanimate objects? What about the rest of Evanuris - trapped somewhere, but likely still a threat to the world? What about revelations in Trespasser? And how do things like missions in Dirthamen's temple or Sulevin Blade or any other elven places we visited don't give us insight into ancient elvhen history, that eventually informs us about both how the ancient Elvenhan looked like and what the Dalish took from it?

 

And YES - we do get to understand Briala. She has a whole book dedicated to her. Dragon Age is more than just games, by design.

 

Like... at this point I'm not sure what you're asking for them to do. It seems you want it specifically to focus on Dalish more.... and why? We know pretty much everything about them there is to know, be it through their inclusion in DAO, DA2, auxillary materials or the Dalish Inquisitor themselves. We know enough about them to identify them, we know enough about their culture and beliefs and how DAI undermined them (and before you say that the whole undermining is the issue - the same thing happened to Andrastians with whole revelations about orb and Veil and Dwarves in Descent with revelations about Titans). There's just not much there left to be focused on that could provide much to the story, aside maybe from some personal stories. There's just no reason to focus on the Dalish more than they are now, especially that they're merely a small subset of elves - and the elves most definitely came to focus in last game, and especially in last DLC, with it suggesting that there's going to be even more in the future.