153429 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

What faith inspires in people is much more relevant then the literal truth.

The only reason anyone says that is because they can't prove beyond any doubt the literal truth.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The only reason anyone says that is because they can't prove beyond any doubt the literal truth.

 

That's not necessarily true. And in the case of Dragon Age, what faith inspires in people is the question that the writers are often interested in exploring in their stories. There are many other fantasy settings where the truth of religion(s) is plainly obvious. 

[LobselVith8]

I don't think conversion is necessary to say something like, "well, I can't prove it's NOT real." I play my Levellan as cautious but deeply curious, and the only thing she really knows about gods and creators and magic and spirits is that there's a shitton that nobody knows. So who is to say which faith is more true? The Dalish fight to preserve their culture, and their religion is just one aspect of that. She has an encyclopedic knowledge of her gods (she was training to be Keeper, after all, before all this happened), but if you asked her if she thought they literally existed, she'd say something vague about how maybe, maybe not, but the stories are important tools for understanding how the ancient Elves viewed the world.

 

That's fine; that's the fun of roleplaying as a character you create. Speaking for the character I played as - Revas, of Clan Lavellan - he simply don't see the merit in the Andrastian faith or the Maker. He's seen the dark side of the Andrastian faith first-hand; he had no reason to believe. He was open-minded about spirits and about blood magic in conversation with Solas (it reminded me a lot of what Merrill says on the same subjects). I think he would have been very happy when the Dalish arrived at Skyhold; telling stories, sharing trials and tribulations faced by the clans, discussing the future of the People. He was no longer the First due to his new responsibilities, but he would always be Dalish.

 

I like to imagine how important the People would view a Dalish victory against an ancient Magister; one of the People took down the human who entered the Eternal City and tried to achieve godhood. It's the kind of story they'd tell for generations.

[DreamerM]

The only reason anyone says that is because they can't prove beyond any doubt the literal truth.

If you can prove it, then no one has to believe, and the whole point of faith is moot. You can't "believe" something you KNOW is true, no matter what those flat-earthers tell you.

Proving the existence or non-existence of the Maker, and to a lesser extent proving the Divine nature or charlatanry of Andraste herself, would undercut all the game is trying to teach us about the essence of faith. The point is you believe because you choose to.

We know Solas is one of the Elven pantheon, so deciding to "believe" in those gods at this point would be difficult, because we've seen proof of what they really are. We know they are real, so we don't have to believe they are real.  Someone could still do it, I suppose, but giving too many answers makes talking about religion very difficult.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I was just thinking... maybe it would be good to play an elven Inquisitor that eventually comes to worship both the elven gods and the Maker, inspired by Ameridan's example.

That way, Lavellan fits both the Andrastian and elven centered parts of the main story.

Mine had actually come to a similar kind of world view as him on her own before having met him. Really, it was uncanny how similar I found the two. I mean she was a woman and not a mage, but as far as ideology and how they seemed to view their roles in the world, they were two of a kind. I really wish we'd been able to keep him around longer.

 

 

I kind of hope that in DA4 there will be a weird splinter sect of Andrastians who decide that Solas is the Maker, if word gets out that he's the one who put up the Veil. I imagine Solas might find that awkward, but would use them cheerfully.

I'm now picturing his face when he first comes across this concept and I can't stop giggling. 

 

 

If you can prove it, then no one has to believe, and the whole point of faith is moot. You can't "believe" something you KNOW is true, no matter what those flat-earthers tell you.

Proving the existence or non-existence of the Maker, and to a lesser extent proving the Divine nature or charlatanry of Andraste herself, would undercut all the game is trying to teach us about the essence of faith. The point is you believe because you choose to.

We know Solas is one of the Elven pantheon, so deciding to "believe" in those gods at this point would be difficult, because we've seen proof of what they really are. We know they are real, so we don't have to believe they are real.  Someone could still do it, I suppose, but giving too many answers makes talking about religion very difficult.

I'm confused. If you know something to be true, then of course you believe it? That's kind of a necessity for acknowledging something as true. You sure "believe" is the word you mean?

[LobselVith8]

Proving the existence or non-existence of the Maker, and to a lesser extent proving the Divine nature or charlatanry of Andraste herself, would undercut all the game is trying to teach us about the essence of faith. The point is you believe because you choose to.

Yet Bioware already did that with the Creators.

[midnight tea]

If you can prove it, then no one has to believe, and the whole point of faith is moot. You can't "believe" something you KNOW is true, no matter what those flat-earthers tell you.

Proving the existence or non-existence of the Maker, and to a lesser extent proving the Divine nature or charlatanry of Andraste herself, would undercut all the game is trying to teach us about the essence of faith. The point is you believe because you choose to.

 

Well... if it's imperative for a person to NOT know something then faith is not much a choice as something the existence of which hinges on lack of knowledge or certainty. By that logic knowing something stands in direct opposition in believing in something... which basically calls for living in ignorance in order to maintain someone's faith.

 

... Which is one of my exact problems with religion or at least some understanding of religion, eh :/

 

But I digress. Anyway, I don't really think "teaching us about the essence of faith" that was the point of DAI's story - or that's it's teaching about religious faith in particular. DAI obviously explores the facets of faith - not just how it's expressed, but how it oftentimes comes to life, what it can do and how it affects people, good or bad. But as much as the plot circles around religion, religious institutions and figures, I don't think *religious faith* is at the center of the story. It never was, and frankly it annoys me when people (speaking in general, nobody in particular) try and make it a point about how DAI is or should be about it.

DA is a tale about faith, but in a general sense - faith in people, in ourselves, in how things can get better, etc. Trust and hope.

 

Look at Leliana. She's never lost her faith in the Maker - even in her darkest moments she still believes Maker exists. What was broken was her faith in the world and the value of mercy, or that her own actions can make anything better in the long run. Cassandra's faith is also not so much about the Maker, but her belief in value of honesty, truth and doing the right thing. It's what makes her an endearing character, even to people who are generally very non-religious, like myself.

 

And look at Solas - his biggest issue appears to be that his own faith in people and the world got severely undermined; he doesn't trust the world to move on without him doing something drastic. It's what makes him grim and fatalistic. Hence I wouldn't be surprised if restoring his faith - a very much non-religious faith - is likely what may be our objective, at least when we'd try and redeem him.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

Yet Bioware already did that with the Creators.

Not technically, since you can choose to not believe Solas' claims that they weren't gods. Also the Dalish never defined "god" the same way Andrastianism does. Technically "really powerful mage king" is still within the boundaries of Creator worship. Elgarnan's origin story might be bogus at this point, but I'm not sure every Dalish ever strictly took it literally in the first place.

[Auirel]

I'm not positive if this has been pointed out on this thread in the past, but I've not seen anyone comment on this Elven statue inside the Valammar Vault in the Hinterlands.

Spoiler

 

Two Fen'Harel statues, two statues of Falon'Din and then in the centre a statue of an female elf with wings. Not dragon wings like Mythal, but bird/griffon wings. All gold, not stone.

Spoiler

 

Honestly, given that this is a treasure vault, its probable that the statues were all transported from elsewhere, so the fact that all the statues are together probably doesn't mean anything. They could all come from the same place, but that's more speculation than anything else. It also isn't clear if these statues were constructed before the fall of Arlathan or at Halamshiral. Either way, the winged elf statue is something that I can't recall seeing ever.

Spoiler

 

My first thought was that this could be a statue of Ghilan'nain, though I think Andruil could be another possibility (bird of prey/hunter connection?), although the headress also reminds me of Mythal somewhat.

Spoiler

 

She seems somewhat reverent or peaceful, and taking wings is synonymous to attaining godhood so it might indicate that the statue is supposed to represent Ghilan'nain becoming one of the Evanuris. The body language is a little bit vague, it might be reverent, but the way she has her hands raised up makes me think of someone kneeling and hands raised up like "WWWHHHHYYY!"

 

Its funny that still, on my third or fourth playthrough I'm still discovering new things in this game.

 

[LobselVith8]

Not technically, since you can choose to not believe Solas' claims that they weren't gods. Also the Dalish never defined "god" the same way Andrastianism does. Technically "really powerful mage king" is still within the boundaries of Creator worship. Elgarnan's origin story might be bogus at this point, but I'm not sure every Dalish ever strictly took it literally in the first place.

 

The Dalish viewed them as gods - you don't have a story where Elgar'nan fought his father, the Sun, and not view him as a god in the traditional sense. If Bioware is supposed to telling us about "faith" and how revealing a religion to be wrong would undercut that, then I'm simply pointing out Bioware has already done so with the religion of the Dalish. I don't see why they couldn't do it with the Andrastian faith.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I'm not positive if this has been pointed out on this thread in the past, but I've not seen anyone comment on this Elven statue inside the Valammar Vault in the Hinterlands.

Spoiler

 

Two Fen'Harel statues, two statues of Falon'Din and then in the centre a statue of an female elf with wings. Not dragon wings like Mythal, but bird/griffon wings. All gold, not stone.

Spoiler

 

Honestly, given that this is a treasure vault, its probable that the statues were all transported from elsewhere, so the fact that all the statues are together probably doesn't mean anything. They could all come from the same place, but that's more speculation than anything else. It also isn't clear if these statues were constructed before the fall of Arlathan or at Halamshiral. Either way, the winged elf statue is something that I can't recall seeing ever.

Spoiler

 

My first thought was that this could be a statue of Ghilan'nain, though I think Andruil could be another possibility (bird of prey/hunter connection?), although the headress also reminds me of Mythal somewhat.

Spoiler

 

She seems somewhat reverent or peaceful, and taking wings is synonymous to attaining godhood so it might indicate that the statue is supposed to represent Ghilan'nain becoming one of the Evanuris. The body language is a little bit vague, it might be reverent, but the way she has her hands raised up makes me think of someone kneeling and hands raised up like "WWWHHHHYYY!"

 

Its funny that still, on my third or fourth playthrough I'm still discovering new things in this game.

I think there might be another copy of that statue in one of the side rooms in Daerwin's Mouth on the Storm Coast. 

 

 

The Dalish viewed them as gods - you don't have a story where Elgar'nan fought his father, the Sun, and not view him as a god in the traditional sense. If Bioware is supposed to telling us about "faith" and how revealing a religion to be wrong would undercut that, then I'm simply pointing out Bioware has already done so with the religion of the Dalish. I don't see why they couldn't do it with the Andrastian faith.

They could.

[midnight tea]

Not technically, since you can choose to not believe Solas' claims that they weren't gods. Also the Dalish never defines "god" the same way Andrastianism does. Technically "really powerful mage king" is still within the boundaries of Creator worship. Elgarnan's origin story might be bogus at this point, but I'm not sure every Dalish ever strictly took it literally in the first place.

 

Plus, let's face it - we're talking about the world where faith and belief are sort of... more potent that there are here, since they can literally shape the world. Therefore "believing in something or someone" may genuinely elevate that something or someone to the position of great power or influence, beyond even what Inquisitor has experienced with support they can gather.

 

I wouldn't be surprised that in a world where the Fade enabled people to shape the world with willpower the belief of the masses was a nearly quantifiable power that either has made Evanuris so mighty, or made them god-like in every sense of the word - it may also be why they've sought to have more worshipers or enslaved people in the first place. The whole "faith of the subjects literally makes gods more powerful" thing is not an uncommon trope in fiction.

[LobselVith8]

They could.

 

They don't. There's absolutely not one single piece of dialogue, codex entry, or developer comment that suggests otherwise. The Dalish view the Creators as gods.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

They don't. There's absolutely not one single piece of dialogue, codex entry, or developer comment that suggests otherwise. The Dalish view the Creators as gods.

I meant the devs could indeed undermine Andrastianism as Tresspasser's revelations can possibly undermine Creator worship if you're Dalish takes it that way. Of course, some players claim they already have.

[lynroy]

I'm not positive if this has been pointed out on this thread in the past, but I've not seen anyone comment on this Elven statue inside the Valammar Vault in the Hinterlands.

Spoiler

*snip*

 

Two Fen'Harel statues, two statues of Falon'Din and then in the centre a statue of an female elf with wings. Not dragon wings like Mythal, but bird/griffon wings. All gold, not stone.

Spoiler

*snip*

 

Honestly, given that this is a treasure vault, its probable that the statues were all transported from elsewhere, so the fact that all the statues are together probably doesn't mean anything. They could all come from the same place, but that's more speculation than anything else. It also isn't clear if these statues were constructed before the fall of Arlathan or at Halamshiral. Either way, the winged elf statue is something that I can't recall seeing ever.

Spoiler

*snip*

 

My first thought was that this could be a statue of Ghilan'nain, though I think Andruil could be another possibility (bird of prey/hunter connection?), although the headress also reminds me of Mythal somewhat.

Spoiler

*snip*

 

She seems somewhat reverent or peaceful, and taking wings is synonymous to attaining godhood so it might indicate that the statue is supposed to represent Ghilan'nain becoming one of the Evanuris. The body language is a little bit vague, it might be reverent, but the way she has her hands raised up makes me think of someone kneeling and hands raised up like "WWWHHHHYYY!"

 

Its funny that still, on my third or fourth playthrough I'm still discovering new things in this game.

Bears resemblance to the 'gargoyles' (for lack of a better word) that adorn Skyhold when you have the Orlesian throne active--just missing the wings.

Spoiler

 

And similar to the arm rests for the Orlesian throne. I'd guess it's an Orlesian statue.

Spoiler

[Auirel]

I think there might be another copy of that statue in one of the side rooms in Daerwin's Mouth on the Storm Coast. 

 

I haven't gone back there yet, but the only Elven statue I remember being there was the stone one of the Elven servant. That one crops up every now and again. But I'll see if I can't find it.

[Auirel]

Bears resemblance to the 'gargoyles' (for lack of a better word) that adorn Skyhold when you have the Orlesian throne active--just missing the wings.

Spoiler

 

And similar to the arm rests for the Orlesian throne. I'd guess it's an Orlesian statue.

Spoiler

Interesting. The statue clearly has Elven ears. Its a bit odd that the Orlesian decor and throne has those elements to it. Though maybe the purpose of depicting Elves on the armrests was to reinforce subservience. The winged statue is clearly meant to indicate a different meaning, you don't put bird wings on statues of servants. Maybe it is a Halamshiral era statue then?

[Ghost Gal]

Not technically, since you can choose to not believe Solas' claims that they weren't gods. Also the Dalish never defined "god" the same way Andrastianism does. Technically "really powerful mage king" is still within the boundaries of Creator worship. Elgarnan's origin story might be bogus at this point, but I'm not sure every Dalish ever strictly took it literally in the first place.

 

Indeed. One thing that annoys me about Western thinkers is they assume the Judeo/Christian standard of a god is the standard that all people all over the world hold to all their gods, and if their deity is not an all-seeing, all-knowing, world-creating entity, then it's not really a god and doesn't count for worship, which is not actually the case for many non-Jewish/Christian/Muslim deities.

 

Dictionary defines a god as:

 

1. (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.

   synonyms: the Lord, the Almighty, the Creator, the Maker, the Godhead; More

    

    

    

    

    
2. 2.

   (in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.

 

 

By the former Judeo/Christian "all seeing, all knowing, world-creating" standard, the Creators aren't gods. By the latter standard, they could very well qualify. 

 

Besides, learning that Andraste wasn't the woman seen in the rift behind the Herald when you first fell out of the Fade, and learning that you got your mark from a ritual gone awry rather than from the Maker Himself, didn't stop Andrastians from choosing to continue to believe you're the Herald of Andraste and the Mark a gift from the Maker (even though it is ancient elven magic). I don't understand why everyone acts like learning that the Creators weren't world-creating entities means all Dalish should automatically stop believing in them, when the Andrastians did not.

[Moondreamer01]

Bears resemblance to the 'gargoyles' (for lack of a better word) that adorn Skyhold when you have the Orlesian throne active--just missing the wings.

Spoiler

 

And similar to the arm rests for the Orlesian throne. I'd guess it's an Orlesian statue.

Spoiler

The hair and crown on those statues reminds me a bit of Flemmythal's hair. Or is it just me?

[CapricornSun]

Art post.

 

Solas and Lavellan, inspired by this artwork by nanananananablr.

Spoiler

Source: http://thefinalparad...from-dragon-age

 

'The Dread Wolf's Heart'. No relation to Feynite's fic btw. (Also, warning for blood and gore)

Spoiler

Source: http://sketchesthats...s-first-after-i

 

Solas: "What was that, lethallin?"

M!Lavellan: "I said, uh... damn, this is a good book." 

Spoiler

Source: http://schrodanger.t...n-i-said-uhdamn

 

Solas doodle by umabbas.

Spoiler

Source: http://umabbas.tumbl...beats-and-youll

[LobselVith8]

Indeed. One thing that annoys me about Western thinkers is they assume the Judeo/Christian standard of a god is the standard that all people all over the world hold to all their gods, and if their deity is not an all-seeing, all-knowing, world-creating entity, then it's not really a god and doesn't count for worship, which is not actually the case for many non-Jewish/Christian/Muslim deities.

 

Dictionary defines a god as:

 

1. (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.

   synonyms: the Lord, the Almighty, the Creator, the Maker, the Godhead; More

    

    

    

    

    
2. 2.

   (in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.

 

 

By the former Judeo/Christian "all seeing, all knowing, world-creating" standard, the Creators aren't gods. By the latter standard, they could very well qualify. 

 

The Creators were never presented as all-knowing deities so they were never really a counterpart to that particular religion; they were more in line with gods in the traditional sense (powerful beings who were flawed, given Elgar'nan nearly destroying all life on the planet until Mythal calmed him down). I'd say it's more the issue that Dragon Age presents them as powerful mages rather than gods in the traditional sense (or even the Almsivi from the Elder Scrolls) due to the fact that they only provide us with Solas' claims.

 

Besides, learning that Andraste wasn't the woman seen in the rift behind the Herald when you first fell out of the Fade, and learning that you got your mark from a ritual gone awry rather than from the Maker Himself, didn't stop Andrastians from choosing to continue to believe you're the Herald of Andraste and the Mark a gift from the Maker (even though it is ancient elven magic). I don't understand why everyone acts like learning that the Creators weren't world-creating entities means all Dalish should automatically stop believing in them, when the Andrastians did not.

 

That's because we're told the Maker could be involved, simply in a different capacity than was originally thought. Admittedly, it's the double-standard of how Inquisition handles the faith of the Dalish in comparison to the Andrastian faith. Inquisition explicitly calls into question the validity of the beliefs of the Dalish because Solas says they aren't gods, and we are given no counterpoint to his claims, but apparently the developers have no intention of ever doing anything comparable with the faith of the Andrastian humans.

[DreamerM]

Well... if it's imperative for a person to NOT know something then faith is not much a choice as something the existence of which hinges on lack of knowledge or certainty. By that logic knowing something stands in direct opposition in believing in something... which basically calls for living in ignorance in order to maintain someone's faith.

Or it calls for re-organizing the way you think about faith. I know people like the Flat-Earthers and the creationists and those who push for a literal interpretation of holy works will disagree, because they will say it all HAS to be true for the religion's laws to be worth living by. We know the truth, so now all we have to do is live by the truth, and anything that threatens the literal interpertations of those truths are threatening the very foundations of your belief system and must be destroyed or repressed (see: The Dark Ages.)

Faith requires a degree of mystery. That's where belief comes from. If devout Dalish worshipper of the Old Gods who always took the stories at face value came to meet Solas and find out the truth of the elven pantheon... that person would either have to adjust their definition of what "Gods" really are, or they would have to acknowledge that the literal truth is different from the stories, and that they will continue to believe the stories instead.

There's a dialog with Mother Gizelle shortly after you arrive in Skyhold where she talks you through the Chantry's version of the defilement of the Golden City, in detail. The Inquisitor can point out certain words and phrases that seem to resmeble his or her own experiences. In the end, the Inqusitor can say the story is not exact, but it roughly fits. Mother Gizelle admits the story may be metaphor, but that does not mean the Maker's hand is not at work in the events that unfolded.

John Cleese said that the biggest thing he learned while writing "Life of Brian" is that the people who start religions tend to be very intelligent people, and intelligent people tend not to be literal minded. Metaphors and allegories stick in the mind better and last longer, as well as getting their point across more clearly. Getting a solid yes or no on the truth of the matter can only hurt. Seeking truth is more important then finding it.

[TheyCallMeBunny]

I'm not positive if this has been pointed out on this thread in the past, but I've not seen anyone comment on this Elven statue inside the Valammar Vault in the Hinterlands.

Spoiler

 

Two Fen'Harel statues, two statues of Falon'Din and then in the centre a statue of an female elf with wings. Not dragon wings like Mythal, but bird/griffon wings. All gold, not stone.

Spoiler

 

Honestly, given that this is a treasure vault, its probable that the statues were all transported from elsewhere, so the fact that all the statues are together probably doesn't mean anything. They could all come from the same place, but that's more speculation than anything else. It also isn't clear if these statues were constructed before the fall of Arlathan or at Halamshiral. Either way, the winged elf statue is something that I can't recall seeing ever.

Spoiler

 

My first thought was that this could be a statue of Ghilan'nain, though I think Andruil could be another possibility (bird of prey/hunter connection?), although the headress also reminds me of Mythal somewhat.

Spoiler

 

She seems somewhat reverent or peaceful, and taking wings is synonymous to attaining godhood so it might indicate that the statue is supposed to represent Ghilan'nain becoming one of the Evanuris. The body language is a little bit vague, it might be reverent, but the way she has her hands raised up makes me think of someone kneeling and hands raised up like "WWWHHHHYYY!"

 

Its funny that still, on my third or fourth playthrough I'm still discovering new things in this game.

 

These reminds me of the texts in the temple of Mythal where they mentioned the "sinner" taking the "form reserved for the gods"  and "dared to fly in the shape of the divine". We always assumed that meant a dragon-form, but what if it wasn't? Maybe the form was more along the line of those statues or something else entirely? I mean, my bets are still on the dragons, but it is fun to speculate.

[dawnstone]

I'm not positive if this has been pointed out on this thread in the past, but I've not seen anyone comment on this Elven statue inside the Valammar Vault in the Hinterlands.

Spoiler

 

Two Fen'Harel statues, two statues of Falon'Din and then in the centre a statue of an female elf with wings. Not dragon wings like Mythal, but bird/griffon wings. All gold, not stone.

Spoiler

 

Honestly, given that this is a treasure vault, its probable that the statues were all transported from elsewhere, so the fact that all the statues are together probably doesn't mean anything. They could all come from the same place, but that's more speculation than anything else. It also isn't clear if these statues were constructed before the fall of Arlathan or at Halamshiral. Either way, the winged elf statue is something that I can't recall seeing ever.

Spoiler

 

My first thought was that this could be a statue of Ghilan'nain, though I think Andruil could be another possibility (bird of prey/hunter connection?), although the headress also reminds me of Mythal somewhat.

Spoiler

 

She seems somewhat reverent or peaceful, and taking wings is synonymous to attaining godhood so it might indicate that the statue is supposed to represent Ghilan'nain becoming one of the Evanuris. The body language is a little bit vague, it might be reverent, but the way she has her hands raised up makes me think of someone kneeling and hands raised up like "WWWHHHHYYY!"

 

Its funny that still, on my third or fourth playthrough I'm still discovering new things in this game.

I always thought it was funny that there was a huge pile of priceless-looking elven bling in that cave and no one in your party seemed to care.  It would be interesting if the Carta looted it from the Deep Roads rather than elven sites, because that would be even more evidence that the ancient elves had a bigger presence underground than previously thought.

 

The statue's hair and headpiece remind me of Mythal, but they've always seemed to try not to give any of the gods a defined face in their depictions. She looks kind of fiery, maybe it's Sylaise.

 

There are still things I know I haven't found, because I've seen pictures, but never managed to run across them in any of my playthroughs.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Or it calls for re-organizing the way you think about faith. I know people like the Flat-Earthers and the creationists and those who push for a literal interpretation of holy works will disagree, because they will say it all HAS to be true for the religion's laws to be worth living by. We know the truth, so now all we have to do is live by the truth, and anything that threatens the literal interpertations of those truths are threatening the very foundations of your belief system and must be destroyed or repressed (see: The Dark Ages.)

Faith requires a degree of mystery. That's where belief comes from. If devout Dalish worshipper of the Old Gods who always took the stories at face value came to meet Solas and find out the truth of the elven pantheon... that person would either have to adjust their definition of what "Gods" really are, or they would have to acknowledge that the literal truth is different from the stories, and that they will continue to believe the stories instead.

There's a dialog with Mother Gizelle shortly after you arrive in Skyhold where she talks you through the Chantry's version of the defilement of the Golden City, in detail. The Inquisitor can point out certain words and phrases that seem to resmeble his or her own experiences. In the end, the Inqusitor can say the story is not exact, but it roughly fits. Mother Gizelle admits the story may be metaphor, but that does not mean the Maker's hand is not at work in the events that unfolded.

Sounds like a recipe for disaster and preventing people from thinking. Mystery in truth means it's not the literal truth, thus liberal interpretations could be wrong. These aren't white lies, these are lies that shapes peoples' values and possibly their society. Multiple interpretations could cause conflict because of competing ideologies and charlatans could use it to exploit people for political gain. A lot of religions enforce a lot of horrific practices just because they could have interpreted the messages wrong.

 

And what is the virtue of choosing to believe in something if you don't know the context of it? Take your example of if your Inquisitor believes he really is the chosen of Andraste even when all the details shown that it was just elven magic gone awry; but your interpretation is that the events didn't presuppose the invisible hand of the Maker doing it so you proclaim yourself the chosen of Andraste while omitting that it is just your interpretation which is not a credible source of truth. If you omit the details, then those that choose to believe your metaphorical interpretation are misled by a lie, not chosen because it's the truth. So even the virtue of freedom of choice is compromised if it's not an informed decision.

 

What does the vagueness of your truth accomplish? Those half truths could lead to: conflict of ideologies -all of them wrong because you've omitted details- and ridiculous practices that serve no practical value such as the Dalish who tattoo themselves with slave markings. Even if you believe that it's all about encouraging people to think for themselves and discover the truth, how can they discover truth if you omit the details in order to preserve your mystery? So they are forced to accept the lie for as long as the details remain hidden. That's not inspiring people to be educated and adept, that's lording mystique on others who lack critical thinking. And the people who actually learn that truth are the people who question the validity of the interpreted truth because it's left in mystery.

 

 

 

John Cleese said that the biggest thing he learned while writing "Life of Brian" is that the people who start religions tend to be very intelligent people, and intelligent people tend not to be literal minded. Metaphors and allegories stick in the mind better and last longer, as well as getting their point across more clearly. Getting a solid yes or no on the truth of the matter can only hurt. Seeking truth is more important then finding it.

And how can you claim to get their point across more clearly with metaphors and allegories when its interpretation could perverted just because it's vague and not explicit? One of the reasons that they used metaphors in the old days was because paper and written word wasn't invented yet so word of mouth was used to tell their messages. Metaphors, stories, and allegories were useful because it helped people remember when books and such weren't invented but the message gets perverted over time with no explicit details or context. If the writer or author of the message explicitly says it's a metaphor then yes the message will last for as long as his point is clearly and explicitly said, but if your just trusting people to understand the point of it then it will just get perverted.