153429 réponses à ce sujet

[TheyCallMeBunny]

Then again, can't the same be said about mage-romances?

 

- Morrigan dissappears, and only later in a dlc does the PC get a chance to join her... at the cost of leaving everything behind.

- Merrill we have already discussed, so I will leave it at that.

- Anders betrays his lover, murders countless of innocents, spark a war and is either killed by said PC or forced into exile.

- Solas... yeah, we know.

- Dorian at first seems to have a fairly happy romance, but at the end of Trespasser we see that he and his lover are forced apart and can only communicate long-distance... so not exactly flowers and rainbows for them either.

 

I think by this we can conclude that a completely happy romance is a rare thing in a Bioware game, and thus should be treasured.

 

We have yet to find out the end to Solavellan, so I suggest we hope and pray that Weekes and the other devs have something up their sleeves that will satisfy all players. 

[Xilizhra]

They certainly went out of their way to break her heart and crush her spirit while they were at it. Mahariel dies horribly saying she saved Merrill from the fate she just suffered, Merrill cries over her body, every companion except Isabela and Varric kick her while she's down, then her entire clan attacks her and has to get slaughtered unless Hawke throws Merrill under the bus and says they'll watch over her to keep her from killing everyone else. In the end, she's so heart-broken she either shatters the mirror or puts the drape over it because she realized how stupid it was to try to repair it in the first place, or how stupid for trying to help people who were never worth the trouble to begin with. (Read: Dalish).

 

Elfy Elf? Punished.

Well, we'll hope that Mary Kirby stays away from anyone important in the next game, then. Possibly is removed altogether.

 

 

Oh, like it's going to end happily.

 

Weekes himself said, "Solas' story is not a happy one."

Neither was the quarian story, but then it ended.

[LobselVith8]

They certainly went out of their way to break her heart and crush her spirit while they were at it. Mahariel dies horribly saying she saved Merrill from the fate she just suffered, Merrill cries over her body, every companion except Isabela and Varric kick her while she's down, then her entire clan attacks her and has to get slaughtered unless Hawke throws Merrill under the bus and says they'll watch over her to keep her from killing everyone else. In the end, she's so heart-broken she either shatters the mirror or puts the drape over it because she realized how stupid it was to try to repair it in the first place, or how stupid for trying to help people who were never worth the trouble to begin with. (Read: Dalish).

 

I could certainly do without this franchise showing favoritism for the Andrastian faith at the cost of throwing the Dalish under the bus. This might be the last time we get to play as a Dalish elf, and we're surrounded by characters who constantly denigrate our culture while proselytizing their religion and a narrative that continually shows disregard for the People. I still haven't forgotten how TME went through the effort to make Gaspard and Celene three-dimensional characters, despite the monstrous things they did, while making the Dalish completely one-dimensional.

 

Elfy Elf? Punished.

 

Every time she said that to Lavellan I translated it as though a bigoted person was calling me 'Latino-y'. Yeah, it's not all that amusing.

 

Oh, like it's going to end happily.

 

Weekes himself said, "Solas' story is not a happy one."

 

I hope he changes his mind, for your sake.

[Ghost Gal]

Well, we'll hope that Mary Kirby stays away from anyone important in the next game, then. Possibly is removed altogether.

 

 

Neither was the quarian story, but then it ended.

 

Except the characters and quests she writes that aren't Merrill tend to go pretty well.

 

Sten from DAO is beloved for being such a hilarious, sweet-toothed, flower-picking, kitten-playing, lovable fish-out-of-water.

 

Varric Tethras from DA2 and DAI is adored by the fandom for being such a fun, personable, lovable rogue.

 

Vivienne... is not universally beloved by the fandom, but neither does her quest completely break her, and she always succeeds in her ambition of getting the Circles restored and herself in charge of them by the end of Trespasser. Man, wish getting one's ambition accomplished no matter what happened to Merrill.

 

Again, "elfy elves" who try to restore the past are punished for it. Happened to Merrill last game, will happen to Solas next game.

[NightSymphony]

Lots of Comics (they are pretty big)

 

Wake Up

Spoiler

http://msartisticstu...deviation_stack

 

Demons (Lavellan playing a prank on Sera)

Spoiler

http://bunnynoldo.de...deviation_stack

 

Friends with Side Benefits

Spoiler

http://noodlesforner...efits-620399374

 

Wolf in....clothing...   (I think this might have been shared before)

Spoiler

http://noodlesforner...thing-620403039

 

As You Wish, Child

Spoiler

http://noodlesforner...Child-620398968

[Ellawynn]

Um... I'll be the last person to try and tell someone that they shouldn't be critical, but I don't think there's any reason to take the state of the Dalish so... personally.

[LobselVith8]

Um... I'll be the last person to try and tell someone that they shouldn't be critical, but I don't think there's any reason to take the state of the Dalish so... personally.

This is a forum intended for us to express our views, not simply provide accolades. When the writers do something that a person finds dissatisfying, I think it's entirely appropriate to express that. Discovering that the Dalish were written as caricatures in TME and seeing the culture vilified in Inquisition was incredibly tiresome to deal with.

[Steelcan]

This is a forum intended for us to express our views, not simply provide accolades. When the writers do something that a person finds dissatisfying, I think it's entirely appropriate to express that. Discovering that the Dalish were written as caricatures in TME and seeing the culture vilified in Inquisition was incredibly tiresome to deal with.

maybe you should take the hint from the writers

[Renmiri1]

Hah yeah I definitely don't see Solas and Lavellan clasping hands and skipping off into the sunset.  And if that actually happened I imagine my reaction would be something like, "lolwut?"

Unless it's like Thelma and Louise style..

[ladyiolanthe]

We don't actually know this?  I mean, it's a theory and there are statements made in game by other characters that support the theory that Solas was a spirit who took on physical form but despite his name, if this theory is correct, we don't actually know what type of spirit he might have been.  And I don't even necessarily disagree with the theory myself it's just there's been no real confirmation one way or the other.

 

Sure, it hasn't been verbally stated - I agree. I find it interesting that Solas paints the Dread Wolf as a wolf / pride demon hybrid, though.

[Elessara]

Sure, it hasn't been verbally stated - I agree. I find it interesting that Solas paints the Dread Wolf as a wolf / pride demon hybrid, though.

 

Yeah that's a pretty big hint, as is his name, the comments from Cole and the other information you find in the Vir Dirthara.  But ... let's just say I don't trust the writers not to change their minds unless they state something explicitly lol. 

[Ellawynn]

This is a forum intended for us to express our views, not simply provide accolades. When the writers do something that a person finds dissatisfying, I think it's entirely appropriate to express that. Discovering that the Dalish were written as caricatures in TME and seeing the culture vilified in Inquisition was incredibly tiresome to deal with.

 

Oh yeah, absolutely. Don't suppress negative feedback because it's how people improve.

 

But hoping for a writer to be fired over your personal opinion that they mishandled a single character? That's, uh... yeah.

[Addictress]

The Dalish opinions in Inquisition were just a rehash of Lawrence of Arabia. TE Lawrence meets with nomadic middle eastern tribes who refer to the advanced sciences and civilized glory of the Islamic Empire centuries ago, but then people point out to them that they've reduced themselves with constant brutish warfare and an inability to unite. 

 

I always thought it....a romantic perspective, not necessarily a discredit to them. It illustrates an existential angst, or fork in the road, by acknowledging their potential by pointing out the achievements that did happen in their past, and identifying the power of their collective choices in the present.

[Addictress]

America will fall, if it hasn't already, soon, then we'll be in the same romantic angsty position 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The Dalish opinions in Inquisition were just a rehash of Lawrence of Arabia. TE Lawrence meets with nomadic middle eastern tribes who refer to the advanced sciences and civilized glory of the Islamic Empire centuries ago, but then people point out to them that they've reduced themselves with constant brutish warfare and an inability to unite. 

 

I always thought it....a romantic perspective, not necessarily a discredit to them. It illustrates an existential angst, or fork in the road, by acknowledging their potential by pointing out the achievements that did happen in their past, and identifying the power of their collective choices in the present.

 

Just like the nomadic Middle Eastern tribes in Lawrence of  Arabia, the Dalish Elves got their history wrong and the Islamic Empire / Civilization is not as glorious as it is made out to be. 

 

http://atheistuniver...-really-islamic

 

https://www.reddit.c...n_age_of_islam/

[Addictress]

The Elvehn empire WAS glorious. Full of debauchery and evil slavery, but still mighty.

[DreamerM]

I can't help but wonder if there isn't another shoe to drop about the Dalish, the way there was a shoe to drop about Tevinter.

Tevinter was a really one-note sort of place, and we took for granted everything we had been told about it was true: it destroyed Arlathan, it killed Andraste, it started the blights, it's just the worst. Plus everyone we met from Tevinter was either a slave-happy blood mage or someone running away from slave-happy blood mages. Then we met Dorian, and Maevaris, and learned the truth of what really happened to the Elves, and now ... Tevinter is still terrible, but we are starting to see glimpses of what it might become, if it reformed.

The Dalish may be in for something similar. So far, all the conventional wisdom about the Dalish hasn't been very flattering, and these ideas have not really been challenged, even when the main character IS Dalish. I'd be open for some sort of unexpected twist either about the real history of the Dalish, or about the fate that is waiting for them at the end of the story.

[CapricornSun]

Art post.

 

Lovely sketch of Solas by kallielef with the colors painted by her mother.

Spoiler

Source: http://kallielef.tum...the-mom-and-she

 

Solas in front of an eluvian. 

Spoiler

Source: http://destinyaposta...-the-dread-wolf

 

A lovely sketch of Trespasser Solas done on a phone.

Spoiler

Source: http://blueravenands...k-as-in-2-hours

 

Solas and the Dread Wolf.

Spoiler

Source: http://kaylacline.co...nd-i-love-solas

 

Solas and Lavellan smooching on the couch. (NSFW-ish? Maybe?)

Spoiler

Source: http://osatokun.tumb...st/147158710238

 

“But what if you stopped me? Or worse, what if you wanted to help?”

Parallels between the Solas romance and the Anders romance.

Spoiler

Source: http://valalin.tumbl...rse-what-if-you

 

Doodle of Solas and Cullen by ChuChu.

Spoiler

Source: http://lothlenan.tum...the-dog-and-the

 

Elf Husbands.

Spoiler

Source: http://destinyaposta...62/elf-husbands

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I can't help but wonder if there isn't another shoe to drop about the Dalish, the way there was a shoe to drop about Tevinter.

Tevinter was a really one-note sort of place, and we took for granted everything we had been told about it was true: it destroyed Arlathan, it killed Andraste, it started the blights, it's just the worst. Plus everyone we met from Tevinter was either a slave-happy blood mage or someone running away from slave-happy blood mages. Then we met Dorian, and Maevaris, and learned the truth of what really happened to the Elves, and now ... Tevinter is still terrible, but we are starting to see glimpses of what it might become, if it reformed.

The Dalish may be in for something similar. So far, all the conventional wisdom about the Dalish hasn't been very flattering, and these ideas have not really been challenged, even when the main character IS Dalish. I'd be open for some sort of unexpected twist either about the real history of the Dalish, or about the fate that is waiting for them at the end of the story.

 

Vote Dorian Pavus for the next Archon. Make Tevinter Great Again.

 

[Xilizhra]

Oh yeah, absolutely. Don't suppress negative feedback because it's how people improve.

 

But hoping for a writer to be fired over your personal opinion that they mishandled a single character? That's, uh... yeah.

That is absolutely acceptable. She can just, if need be, be shuffled onto a different project.

 

 

The Dalish opinions in Inquisition were just a rehash of Lawrence of Arabia. TE Lawrence meets with nomadic middle eastern tribes who refer to the advanced sciences and civilized glory of the Islamic Empire centuries ago, but then people point out to them that they've reduced themselves with constant brutish warfare and an inability to unite. 

 

I always thought it....a romantic perspective, not necessarily a discredit to them. It illustrates an existential angst, or fork in the road, by acknowledging their potential by pointing out the achievements that did happen in their past, and identifying the power of their collective choices in the present.

An exceedingly exploitative and unwanted romance.

[LobselVith8]

 

Oh yeah, absolutely. Don't suppress negative feedback because it's how people improve.

 

But hoping for a writer to be fired over your personal opinion that they mishandled a single character? That's, uh... yeah.

 

Because Xil doesn't think that Kirby should be writing about elves? That kind of commentary glosses over the actual issues that are being brought up by Xil. When people pointed out to Gaider that Leliana came across as anti-mage in Dragon Age II, we saw her propelled to very strong, explicit pro-mage positions in Asunder and even Inquisition. When people complained about Giselle's treatment of Dorian, the writers went out of their way to have her apologize in Trespasser so that players wouldn't continue to dislike her. This never happens for the Dalish.

 

We see the Chantry fleshed out with multiple characters, and even the story forces you to deal with that. Does it do the same for the Dalish? No. When Hawke goes to Sundermount and is confused as to why the Dalish are abrasive and wary, is it pointed out that the Chantry outlawed their religion, that humans attack them, that they have to be careful because of templars and a myriad of other threats? No. It glosses over that so that Fenris and Varric can insult them. Hawke's storyline with Merrill involves a man completely ignorant about elven culture taking a position of telling an actual elf whether she's right or wrong about things he knows absolutely nothing about (which is incredibly problematic in and of itself, and likely the source of Xil's criticism against Kirby).

 

When people were known to dislike the Dalish, did the writers ever make similar attempts to correct their views or make players give them another look, like they did with Leliana, Cullen, Giselle, and a plethora of other Andrastian characters and groups? No. We get the inception of their vallaslin treated with denigration, we get their culture treated as though it's inferior for not being human culture (and I'm not even getting into how the developers talked about how the Dalish are based on PoC groups like Native Americas while Andrastian society is based on Caucasian European ones), we get the storyline continually hammer down that the Dalish are in the wrong for being independent and refusing to submit.

 

So some of us are dissatisfied, as you can imagine.

[The Elder King]

A switch in perspective on the Dalish is dependant on how related they'll be with Solas' plot. But on a generale not I think it'd be best to not expect a overall good situation or portrayals for the elves during and post-Solas' plot. They're going with the plot of having them as the next antagonists, at least Some of them. Maybe the can go with the Dalish being against him?
It's the same for wanting Solas' story to have an happy ending. To change that it'd require a change on the main plot related to him, which I think it's unlikely, regardless if he accomplishes his plans or not.

It's not about Kirby's views (on that note I disagree with Xil. I want her in DA) or Weekes. It's about a general view and plot of the team that started at least with DA2, which continued in DAI and will continue, almost surely, in the next game. It'd be best to prepared.

[midnight tea]

Because Xil doesn't think that Kirby should be writing about elves? That kind of commentary glosses over the actual issues that are being brought up. When people pointed out to Gaider that Leliana came across as anti-mage in Dragon Age II, we saw her propelled to very strong, explicit pro-mage positions in Asunder and even Inquisition. When people complained about Giselle's treatment of Dorian, the writers went out of their way to have her apologize in Trespasser so that players wouldn't continue to dislike her. This never happens for the Dalish.

 

We see the Chantry fleshed out with multiple characters, and even the story forces you to deal with that. Does it do the same for the Dalish? No. When Hawke goes to Sundermount and is confused as to why the Dalish are abrasive and wary, is it pointed out that the Chantry outlawed their religion, that humans attack them, that they have to be careful because of templars and a myriad of other threats? No. It glosses over that so that Fenris and Varric can insult them. Hawke's storyline with Merrill involves a man completely ignorant about elven culture taking a position of telling an actual elf whether she's right or wrong about things he knows absolutely nothing about (which is incredibly problematic in and of itself, and likely the source of Xil's criticism against Kirby).

 

When people showed to dislike the Dalish, did the writers ever make similar attempts to correct their views or make players give them another look? No. We get the inception of their vallaslin treated with denigration, we get their culture treated as though it's inferior for not being human culture (and I'm not even getting into how the developers talked about how the Dalish are based on PoC groups like Native Americas while Andrastian society is based on Caucasian European ones), we get the storyline continually hammer down that the Dalish are in the wrong for being independent and refusing to submit.

 

So some of us are dissatisfied, as you can imagine.

 

"Writers went out of their way?" In case of Giselle it was a matter of a *sentence*. Added to a singular character.

 

Then there's the whole "fleshed out with multiple characters thing"... I'm sorry, but what were you expecting? Humans dominate Thedas. Andrastianism dominates South - it's a matter of simple statistic that determines that a lot of characters are a.) human and b.) Andrastian. The story won't be getting out of its way to focus on a group that overall isn't central to the story - nor I share your opinion that the Dalish are actually being that 'unfairly' portrayed.

 

As someone who actually comes from a country that dealt with oppression not even so long ago I'd say that their portrayal of elves is... pretty spot on. I also recall how game devs said that the Dalish aren't particularly based on anything - merely that the fact that they're oppressed makes people make connection in their had with oppressed groups IRL, past or present. It's pretty accurate, because you'd never really think that the portrayal of the Dalish would make anybody think about Poland - yet they do. Because they share many psychological characteristics of a group people who for a long time had to struggle in a world set against them - and it's never really as black-and-white. There can be a lot of resentment and suspicion and misguided pride there as well and some people will act on it. The Dalish are never portrayed as cartoonishly good or bad though. It's established in the game that they're scattered and can differ from one another as much as one clan being open and friendly to another being hostile and attacking everyone on sight. We actually didn't see much of the latter in DA, while we actually saw the former on quite a few occasions, as well as many shades in-between. I like that. It's realistic.

[midnight tea]

A switch in perspective on the Dalish is dependant on how related they'll be with Solas' plot. But on a generale not I think it'd be best to not expect a overall good situation or portrayals for the elves during and post-Solas' plot. They're going with the plot of having them as the next antagonists, at least Some of them. Maybe the can go with the Dalish being against him?

 

I don't think there'd be any "switch to the Dalish perspective" - the closest to that would be Dalish Inquisitor I guess (if they show up and have any significant role), but that's about it. The Dalish are merely a splinter group of a bigger whole, so I don't see why they'd become a focus, over elves overall. Even the last epilogue slide makes it clear that ALL elves of the south disappear somewhere, not just Dalish (whom most Southerners wouldn't notice the disappearance of). 

 

Plus, I don't really see how they'd be related to Solas plot any more than others. In fact, with their dedication to Evanuris - who so far as established as pretty bad individuals - I have to wonder whether some Dalish would fight on their side, provided they'd ever be shown as an active force in the universe. It IS a distinct possibility.

 

Though even if that scenario materializes, I don't think the story would focus much on it. e're getting to a point where the story is bigger than any specific group - which includes humans. We'd definitely hear more of ancient elves, as well as groups of elves we haven't yet hear much of before (like that red-vallaslined hostile elves from Tirashan).

 

 

It's the same for wanting Solas' story to have an happy ending. To change that it'd require a change on the main plot related to him, which I think it's unlikely, regardless if he accomplishes his plans or not.

 

It's not about Kirby's views (on that note I disagree with Xil. I want her in DA) or Weekes. It's about a general view and plot of the team that started at least with DA2, which continued in DAI and will continue, almost surely, in the next game. It'd be best to prepared.

 

I don't really see how "wanting for Solas' story to have a happy ending" somehow would require them to rewrite the main plot  Realistically we have no idea where the story is going, nor what could even be considered a "happy ending" either for the world or characters - unless we're talking some kind of specific, sappy 'happy ending' from Disney movie or something?

[The Elder King]

If Solas is intended to be the main antagonist, and if Weekes said that his story doesn't have an happy ending, it seems to me that the story is going to the direction of him dying in Some way, regardless on how what will happen to the plot (his plans can be either stopped or being fulfilled).
The only way I can see Solas having an happy-type of ending is in the case he's convinced to stop himself, which I don't see likely, based on his character, and the fact that I think the story might go towards the destuction of the Veil.
I should've added though that it's based on my opinion, so I might as well be wrong.