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[Xilizhra]

Citation needed on Weekes saying that his story doesn't have a happy ending?

[Uirebhiril]

Weekes said the story of Solas is not a happy one, not that it won't have a happy ending. I mean, that's not to say it will, but it's not a definite at this point.

[The Elder King]

Citation needed on Weekes saying that his story doesn't have a happy ending?

  

Weekes said the story of Solas is not a happy one, not that it won't have a happy ending. I mean, that's not to say it will, but it's not a definite at this point.

Fair enough, I was basing my post on Ghost and Lobsel's discussions.
I wouldn't bet regardless on an happy ending for Solas (expecially with the new PC in DA4), but they might go for a Loghain route.

[midnight tea]

If Solas is intended to be the main antagonist, and if Weekes said that his story doesn't have an happy ending, it seems to me that the story is going to the direction of him dying in Some way, regardless on how what will happen to the plot (his plans can be either stopped or being fulfilled).
The only way I can see Solas having an happy-type of ending is in the case he's convinced to stop himself, which I don't see likely, based on his character, and the fact that I think the story might go towards the destuction of the Veil.
I should've added though that it's based on my opinion, so I might as well be wrong.

 

I don't recall Weekes ever explicitly stating that Solas's story can't have a happy ending - merely that the story of Solas (overall) is not a happy one, which is entirely accurate. It also doesn't necessarily means that it has to end sadly - although what is a "sad" and "happy" ending probably depends a lot of what people consider sad or happy. For some even the bittersweet ending would be 'happy', while for some him ending with anything other than skipping into the sunset with a happy family would be 'sad'

 

Then there's a possibility that Solas's story will end very differently depending on choices of PC/Inquisitor.

 

Also - being intended for a main antagonist =/= sad ending, or =/= determines that character remains a baddie till the end of the story. That's definitely true to DA story.

[LobselVith8]

"Writers went out of their way?" In case of Giselle it was a matter of a *sentence*. Added to a singular character.

It was an entire scene intended to change how people felt about the character. That isn't done for the Dalish.

Then there's the whole "fleshed out with multiple characters thing"... I'm sorry, but what were you expecting? Humans dominate Thedas. Andrastianism dominates South - it's a matter of simple statistic that determines that a lot of characters are a.) human and b.) Andrastian.

The Dales was said to be predominantly elven, and they still had the game make the quests in the region predominantly human centric. Even the gathering of the Dalish clans in the Dales (that was set up in Dragon Age II) was omitted.

The story won't be getting out of its way to focus on a group that overall isn't central to the story - nor I share your opinion that the Dalish are actually being that 'unfairly' portrayed.

I see little point to vilifying them when they are shown, and almost completely neglecting elven content even in the Dales.

As someone who actually comes from a country that dealt with oppression not even so long ago I'd say that their portrayal of elves is... pretty spot on.

Coming from a country where one of the sources of inspiration for the Dalish comes from, I'd say their presentation is rather one-dimensional and offensive.

I also recall how game devs said that the Dalish aren't particularly based on anything - merely that the fact that they're oppressed makes people make connection in their had with oppressed groups IRL, past or present. It's pretty accurate, because you'd never really think that the portrayal of the Dalish would make anybody think about Poland - yet they do.

Actually, Native Americans were cited as a source of inspiration by Gaider. Alienages were also said to be influenced by medieval Jewish settings.

The Dalish are never portrayed as cartoonishly good or bad though.

You must not have read TME. They were caricatures in that story.

It's established in the game that they're scattered and can differ from one another as much as one clan being open and friendly to another being hostile and attacking everyone on sight. We actually didn't see much of the latter in DA, while we actually saw the former on quite a few occasions, as well as many shades in-between. I like that. It's realistic.

Showing favoritism to Andrastians while relegating the Dalish to scenes intended to mock and ridicule them is actually a problem for some of us.

[The Elder King]

Solas went (in our perspective) from good to antagonist though. It's a different situation from the other antagonists in the series. And so far only Loghain in DAO in the main DA games went from main antagonist to companion/reedemed character. The main antagonists in DA2 and DAI didn't have that optional path. We had the Architect as an ally, but the following games and dlcs post-DAO cycle are different, so far.
I'm not saying it's not possible, but if I have to bet on something it'd be on Solas remaining the antagonist until the end.

[Gervaise]

What would be an interesting twist would be to have the PC trying to persuade a group of Dalish to help them against Solas and then ultimately together they save all those city elves (and other Dalish) who ran off to join him, either from his ill conceived plan or the backlash against it.  

 

Still I'd quite like to get some emphasis back on city elves the next game, since they were all but invisible in DAI.   If they show just how bad slavery can be, just how bad elven slums can be even when you are not a slave, how the blood mages look upon them as useful items for use in their experiments, and how everyone denigrates them, unless they are willing to sell themselves out by pandering to the whims of the ruling class, then may be that will also bring home why the elves took the Long March to freedom in the old days, why it meant so much to have a homeland where they could be safe from mistreatment by humans, why the Emerald Knights were dedicated to giving them that security and why it was such a tragedy it was taken away from them.    Is might also make it clearer just why the Dalish stubbornly cling to their lifestyle and the mantra of the Dalish is "We are the last of the elvhen and never again will we submit."

 

It is interesting that when you talk with Solas at the beginning and you mention the city elves, he dismisses the notion of giving them false hope.   I really do wonder what he and his agents are saying to get them to follow him in droves.     No doubt he is giving them hope but is he telling them the truth?

[The Elder King]

I don't think the Dalish in TME were caricatures. They were simply the rapresentation of the worst part of the dalish. Every group has those. Weekes could've portrayed them in TME differently, or more varied, but that's another thing.

[midnight tea]

It was an entire scene intended to change how people felt about the character. That isn't done for the Dalish.

 

No it wasn't. Also - you're conflating a singular character with a fairly wide group of people that has been established in the game to not share a singular mindset or attitude. I probably won't have to tell you how problematic that is.

 

And YES - you have positive portrayal of the Dalish, even if we just go with DAi itself. The Dalish Inquisitor obviously comes to mind first, even if a lot depends how you yourself portray them. Then there's clan Lavellan, which is totally shown to be a open-minded, friendly clan thatc ares for other things aside of just themselves, especially if we save them at Wycome. Then there is the Exalted Plains clan - Hawen may be suspicious, but he's overall helpful, and if we bring how the documents that throw light on events in ed Crossing it's the Dalish that reach out and send a peace offering, while the village of Red Crossing and Chantry is portrayed as petty and wanting to use Dalish' gesture of peace against them.

 

The Dales was said to be predominantly elven, and they still had the game make the quests in the region predominantly human centric. Even the gathering of the Dalish clans in the Dales (that was set up in Dragon Age II) was omitted.

 

Where is it said that the Dales is predominantly elven? That is entirely untrue - it's been centuries since the Dales were under control of humans, while at the time there was NO gathering of Dalish clans during times of Inquisition, while the Exalted Plains themselves were a battlefield for Celene's and Gaspard's forces, with most people, elves or humans alike, leaving the region hastily to escape the chaos.

 

It's entirely untrue though that there's no focus of the elves either in Exalted Plains or Emerald Graves - the regions are absolutely peppered with elvhen ruins  from times when elves rule it or older and we have a wealth of information to uncover there.

 

I see little point to vilifying them when they are shown, and almost completely neglecting elven content even in the Dales.

 

Since when making things more complicated than portraying elves as 100% innocent victims is "vilifying"?

 

Coming from a country where one of the sources of inspiration for the Dalish comes from, I'd say their presentation is rather one-dimensional and offensive.

 

You're going to have to elaborate on that. Because obviously I come from a country that shares a lot with portrayal of the Dalish and I think "one-dimensional' and "offensive" is entirely inaccurate description. In fact I greatly enjoy the fact that they're NOT one-dimensional, in a sense that they're shown to be realistic people with realistic attitudes and realistic history, which is a mixture of both good and bad.

 

Actually, Native Americans were cited as a source of inspiration by Gaider. Alienages were also said to be influenced by medieval Jewish settings.

 

And there's nothing connecting Native Americans and medieval Jews in history, other than they're a group of oppressed people, which strengthens the point that the elves don't actually portray one specific group.

 

You must not have read TME. They were caricatures in that story.

 

Oh, you mean one, specific clan portrayed in that particular story, while DA is much bigger than that and provides many and varied examples of Dalish clans or other groups?

 

Showing favoritism to Andrastians while relegating the Dalish to scenes intended to mock and ridicule them is actually a problem for some of us.

 

"Favortism" to Andrastian? There were so many negative portrayals of Andrastians and Andrastian faith, especially (and ironically) in Inquisition, that I can't really treat this criticism seriously...

[midnight tea]

Solas went (in our perspective) from good to antagonist though. It's a different situation from the other antagonists in the series. And so far only Loghain in DAO in the main DA games went from main antagonist to companion/reedemed character. The main antagonists in DA2 and DAI didn't have that optional path. We had the Architect as an ally, but the following games and dlcs post-DAO cycle are different, so far.
I'm not saying it's not possible, but if I have to bet on something it'd be on Solas remaining the antagonist until the end.

 

It is a different situation, true. But DAI and Trspasser didn't just basically switch Solas's role from companion to antagonist. It spent a lot of time establishing Solas as a character and we know that what he does, he does with reluctance, to a point where Inquisitor can offer to redeem him. I don't think the game would give us that option just for a laugh - we're yet to see how that redemption would look like, but it's fairly obvious that we'd be getting something.

 

Basically Solas is established a dynamic character and as such his role in he story won't be static. The story will, naturally, need a core conflict or threat to overcome, but since we don't know where the story is going, we don't even know Fen'Harel would actually be one - especially that it's hinted that something else is creeping on the horizon, and I'm not even talking about possible Qunari invasion, or whoever the Executors or elves from Tirashan represent...

 

My personal bet? It's possible that Solas will stop filling the role of main antagonist. And IMO it's entirely possible that one who may jump in his place may be... Inquisitor They are set up as counterparts after all.

[midnight tea]

It is interesting that when you talk with Solas at the beginning and you mention the city elves, he dismisses the notion of giving them false hope.   I really do wonder what he and his agents are saying to get them to follow him in droves.     No doubt he is giving them hope but is he telling them the truth?

 

That's assuming that he's actually the one doing it. While we know that we can meet a elven servant in Val Royeaux telling his master that he saw vision of Mythal as early as visiting ToM - long before Solas actually takes Flemythal's power.

[Ghost Gal]

No it wasn't. Also - you're conflating a singular character with a fairly wide group of people that has been established in the game to not share a singular mindset or attitude. I probably won't have to tell you how problematic that is.

 

People complained that Cullen was a mage-hating extremist, so they brought him back and made him ridiculously open-minded about mages. Some people thought Leliana came across as racist in DAO and anti-mage in DA2, so they made her more blatantly pro-mage and pro-elf in DAI. Lots of people hated Sera for her immaturity and elf-hating, so they made her more mature and less elf-hating (to the point that she doesn't gloat in her own journal when the elven gods are -shocking - revealed to be fake) for Trespasser. Lots of people hated Vivienne for her coldness and selfishness, so they had her treat the Inquisitor to spa day, act friendly, and ask you questions about your LI in Trespasser so she'd come across as a LITTLE more likable. Lots of people didn't like Mother Giselle's prejudice against Dorian for being Tevinter in the main game, so suddenly she's super pro-Dorian, pro-Tevinter in Trespasser!

 

I can think of PLENTY of examples of the devs going out of their way to portraying Andrastian characters in a positive light after people complained about certain aspects of them, but so far we've seen no examples of that for the Dalish, or "elfy" elves.

 

And YES - you have positive portrayal of the Dalish, even if we just go with DAi itself. The Dalish Inquisitor obviously comes to mind first, even if a lot depends how you yourself portray them. Then there's clan Lavellan, which is totally shown to be a open-minded, friendly clan thatc ares for other things aside of just themselves, especially if we save them at Wycome. Then there is the Exalted Plains clan - Hawen may be suspicious, but he's overall helpful, and if we bring how the documents that throw light on events in ed Crossing it's the Dalish that reach out and send a peace offering, while the village of Red Crossing and Chantry is portrayed as petty and wanting to use Dalish' gesture of peace against them.

 

The Dalish Inquisitor and Clan Lavellan are characters the player sees ONLY if they choose to play an elf. Showing a "positive example of the Dalish" only when the player chooses to play a Dalish rings pretty hollow since people who play literally every other race still only see negative examples; and don't you think they're the ones who should see examples of elven kindness most of all?

 

Hawen is suspicious and mildly unfriendly - just like every other Dalish seen in the games so far. He also refuses to let his Golden Elf join the Inquisition until the player does favors for the clan, enforcing the view that all Dalish are too overly distrusting of outsiders for their own good.

 

And I've seen so many instances of people seeing Red Crossing not as a tragic misunderstanding where both sides were at fault, but as another case of elves being violent and trigger happy since elves technically brought weapons, technically fired the first shot, and choose to scream, "I knew it! The Chantry was right! They said there was an elven attack on Red Crossing that the Dalish denied, and it turned out the Chantry was right and the Dalish lied!" Way to confirm that negative view, BioWare.

 

Where is it said that the Dales is predominantly elven? That is entirely untrue - it's been centuries since the Dales were under control of humans

 

Just because it's ruled by humans doesn't mean they're the majority population. Ferelden was ruled by Orlais for nearly a century, but the subjugated majority was still Fereldens while the ruling minority was Orlesian nobles. 

 

It's entirely untrue though that there's no focus of the elves either in Exalted Plains or Emerald Graves - the regions are absolutely peppered with elvhen ruins  from times when elves rule it or older and we have a wealth of information to uncover there.

 

Oh yay, elven ruins with no elven characters present. Elves are much better when they're absent, aren't they?

[LobselVith8]

No it wasn't. Also - you're conflating a singular character with a fairly wide group of people that has been established in the game to not share a singular mindset or attitude. I probably won't have to tell you how problematic that is.

 

It's only one example among the other examples I brought up in addressing my point. I also elaborated on one of the examples because it was an entire scene intended to persuade players to feel more positively about her, which is never done with the Dalish.

 

And YES - you have positive portrayal of the Dalish, even if we just go with DAi itself. The Dalish Inquisitor obviously comes to mind first, even if a lot depends how you yourself portray them. Then there's clan Lavellan, which is totally shown to be a open-minded, friendly clan thatc ares for other things aside of just themselves, especially if we save them at Wycome. Then there is the Exalted Plains clan - Hawen may be suspicious, but he's overall helpful, and if we bring how the documents that throw light on events in ed Crossing it's the Dalish that reach out and send a peace offering, while the village of Red Crossing and Chantry is portrayed as petty and wanting to use Dalish' gesture of peace against them.

 

Clan Lavellan can easily die in a number of ways, and are relegated to war table missions you optionally read about assuming you play as a Dalish elf. Hawen is dependent on whether or not you are able to go through multiple tasks to earn the trust of the clan, which a number of players said they weren't able to do (and even sought help online to accomplish the task). That's different than the mandatory scenes you come across with Andrastian characters, where you have no choice but to listen to them extol the virtues of the Chantry and the Andrastian faith.

 

It's entirely untrue though that there's no focus of the elves either in Exalted Plains or Emerald Graves - the regions are absolutely peppered with elvhen ruins  from times when elves rule it or older and we have a wealth of information to uncover there.

 

A focus on elven artifacts and moments in time is not a focus on elven characters and their perspectives, views, or trials and tribulations. There is plenty of focus on Andrastian characters, their views, and their issues, even in the Dales; the same is not true of the Andrastian elves, and the single clan we do meet are hardly given much (even in comparison to either Dragon Age II or Inquisition).

 

Where is it said that the Dales is predominantly elven? That is entirely untrue - it's been centuries since the Dales were under control of humans, while at the time there was NO gathering of Dalish clans during times of Inquisition, while the Exalted Plains themselves were a battlefield for Celene's and Gaspard's forces, with most people, elves or humans alike, leaving the region hastily to escape the chaos.

 

It's mentioned in TME that the Dales is predominantly elven and Asunder reads that humans are leaving the Dales en mass; it's why the Dales is contrasted with other nations in addressing that the elves outnumber the humans.

 

Since when making things more complicated than portraying elves as 100% innocent victims is "vilifying"?

 

No one is asking for the elves to be completely innocent, and that's a bit of a tired tactic from people who don't actually have a genuine retort to provide when some of us criticize how the developers handle the story. There are a number of problems in how the game is willing to condemn the elves while it whitewashes their human counterparts: We have Michel, who the game treats as if he's a White Knight and completely ignores his murder of an elf as part of his initiation rite. We have the issue that the game, as a whole, ignores that chevaliers murder elves as part of their initiation rite. We have Drakon's conquests and cullings of other faiths ignored in order to place all the blame on the elves for any tensions that arose; it's not complicated to ignore Drakon's actions and pretend as though we should only blame the elves for any wrongdoing. Do you want me to continue?

[The Elder King]

@Ghost: I'd say most people here things both sides were at fault about the Orlais-Dales fault actually, it's the degree of the fault mostly at discussion.
If you mean in-game, well, winners make history.
Also, the Dales are different from Ferelden. At the time most of the elves outside of Tevinter lived in the Dales. After the war they were spread in the alienages in all Andrastian Thedas. Fereldans still remained in Ferelden since they weren't treated the same way as the elves.

[LobselVith8]

You're going to have to elaborate on that. Because obviously I come from a country that shares a lot with portrayal of the Dalish and I think "one-dimensional' and "offensive" is entirely inaccurate description. In fact I greatly enjoy the fact that they're NOT one-dimensional, in a sense that they're shown to be realistic people with realistic attitudes and realistic history, which is a mixture of both good and bad.

 

I come from North America, and one of the sources of inspiration for the Dalish (as Gaider explained) were Native Americans.

 

Furthermore, I'd say that the Dalish in TME were entirely one-dimensional. The warleader pretty much existed to make Michel look good in comparison and nothing else; the writer couldn't even be bothered to give him a name.

 

And there's nothing connecting Native Americans and medieval Jews in history, other than they're a group of oppressed people, which strengthens the point that the elves don't actually portray one specific group.

 

I didn't say Native Americans were connected to medieval Jewish people in and of themselves, I said Gaider explained that they were sources of inspiration for the Dalish and the Alienage elves.

 

Oh, you mean one, specific clan portrayed in that particular story, while DA is much bigger than that and provides many and varied examples of Dalish clans or other groups?

 

Considering that I also addressed the depiction of Clan Sabrae when Hawke initially encounters them as merely one example of my issues with how Dragon Age handled the elves, I think we both know that my criticism isn't limited to a single book.

 

"Favortism" to Andrastian? There were so many negative portrayals of Andrastians and Andrastian faith, especially (and ironically) in Inquisition, that I can't really treat this criticism seriously...

 

When you have a plethora of balance for Andrastians (for example, the advisors, companions, and number of minor characters who comprise the Inquisition), pointing out that there are negative portrayals doesn't really mean much. You're welcome to feel that you can't take what I said seriously, but that doesn't change the fact that your retort makes absolutely no sense.

[The Elder King]

@Lobsel: which faiths Drakon culled, outside the different Andrastian/Makers cults?
Also, I believe both Orlesians and elves were at fault, and Drakon's conquest might've risen concern, but he didn't want to conquer the Dales, he wanted to have good/better relationship with them. He had no reason to rise tensions with the Dales.

[The Elder King]

Well, I would say Celene, Gaspard, the Lord Seeker, just those Who I recall at the moment, aren't good example Of Andrastians.
And previous games have plenty of examples of bad Andrastians, a lot more then Dalish.

[LobselVith8]

@Lobsel: which faiths Drakon culled, outside the different Andrastian/Makers cults?
Also, I believe both Orlesians and elves were at fault, and Drakon's conquest might've risen concern, but he didn't want to conquer the Dales, he wanted to have good/better relationship with them. He had no reason to rise tensions with the Dales.

 

We know from the Chantry that the Daughters of Song were wiped out, and there were many members: "At its height, the Daughters of Song numbered in the thousands. They maintained a stronghold in a village called Virelay, in the Fields of Ghislain. Virelay saw a yearly event during which the Daughters of Song paraded carven images of the "Maker's Glory" through the square."

 

In regards to their demise: "The Daughters of Song were wiped out by the righteous forces of Emperor Drakon during his campaigns to unite all of Orlais. When the emperor's forces sacked the village, the Daughters would not arm themselves and were either killed or captured. The village was destroyed, and the cult never recovered."

[The Elder King]

We know from the Chantry that the Daughters of Song were wiped out, and there were many members: "At its height, the Daughters of Song numbered in the thousands. They maintained a stronghold in a village called Virelay, in the Fields of Ghislain. Virelay saw a yearly event during which the Daughters of Song paraded carven images of the "Maker's Glory" through the square."
 
In regards to their demise: "The Daughters of Song were wiped out by the righteous forces of Emperor Drakon during his campaigns to unite all of Orlais. When the emperor's forces sacked the village, the Daughters would not arm themselves and were either killed or captured. The village was destroyed, and the cult never recovered."

As different as it is, it's still an Andrastian cult. I already stated he destroyed all Andrastian cults except one. I was referring to other religions.

[LobselVith8]

As different as it is, it's still an Andrastian cult. I already stated he destroyed all Andrastian cults except one. I was referring to other religions.

 

I don't think the lore has really covered faiths outside the multiple Cults of the Maker in general except for the humans who followed the dragon cults and the elves following their own religion.

[The Elder King]

I don't think the lore has really covered faiths outside the multiple Cults of the Maker in general except for the humans who followed the dragon cults and the elves following their own religion.

The Rivaini beliefs, as well.
I just thought that with faiths you meant something else, non related to Andrastian cults.

[CapricornSun]

Art break.

 

"I dreamt at Ostagar. I witnessed the brutality of the darkspawn and the valor of the Fereldan warriors."

Spoiler

Source: http://drawsshits.tu...he-brutality-of

 

DA4 predictions.

Spoiler

Source: http://fadedwhisp.tu...till-waitin-for

 

Solas using magic casually.

Spoiler

Source: http://wtinart.tumbl...-maybe-a-modern

[Ghost Gal]

@Lobsel: which faiths Drakon culled, outside the different Andrastian/Makers cults?
Also, I believe both Orlesians and elves were at fault, and Drakon's conquest might've risen concern, but he didn't want to conquer the Dales, he wanted to have good/better relationship with them. He had no reason to rise tensions with the Dales.

 

Oh, that is such bull.

 

The man who built an empire on the backs of his conquered neighbors, who wanted to extend his borders, who created his own master cult that declared itself the One True Religion and which all other cults and religions were false, wicked and heathen, and said it needed to spread its Chant of Light to all corners of the earth for the Maker to come back and sent missionaries forcing everyone in their path to convert, and tried to convert the elves even though they made it clear they didn't want to buy what humans were selling...

 

Actually, I'm just going to let this codex speak for itself.

 

The Chantry's story of the Exalted March of the Dales paints the picture of the righteous faithful arrayed against heathen savages. But I have long studied the Dales, and I find the "acceptable" version of the tale to be a poor one, laden with overt pro-Chantry and pro-human biases. Thus it is my moral imperative to propose an alternate interpretation: that the Exalted March of the Dales was nothing more than an expansionist ploy hiding behind the mask of faith.

 

It is easy to see on any map how large the Dales are. More importantly, they stand between Orlais and the rest of the south and would likely have represented a significant obstacle to the empire's expansion into Ferelden. Naturally, we stood to benefit from propagating the narrative of a hostile, unreasoning people attacking innocent missionaries and making blood sacrifices of good Andrastian babies. The likely truth is that the elves merely wished to maintain sovereignty over lands promised to them by Blessed Andraste herself, when the humans showed clear intent to undermine their autonomy.

 

Of course, the elves reacted by becoming increasingly isolationist, which suited the empire perfectly. Here was a kingdom that spurned diplomatic overtures and that refused to lend aid during the Second Blight when the darkspawnattacked Montsimmard. The Dalish kingdom could not be anything but a dormant threat, one that needed to be crushed before it awoke.

 

Scholars point to the massacre at Red Crossing as the impetus for the Chantry's declaration of an Exalted March on the elven kingdom in the Dales. They conveniently ignore the fact that no one alive truly knows what happened at Red Crossing or why the elves attacked. The Chantry's response to the elven aggression that resulted in the slaughter of hundreds was predictable. But in light of my thesis, perhaps we should reexamine the events of Red Crossing and wonder if the attack was truly unprovoked. Or whether it is possible that someone saw benefit in sacrificing an entire village to justify the subjugation of an entire people.

[LobselVith8]

Art break.

 

I'm curious (since you seem familiar with a lot of Solas artwork), is there any art with Merrill and Solas? I always thought the prospect of the two of them meeting and talking would be interesting, given their mutual views on spirits not merely being good or evil and viewing blood magic as a tool.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm curious (since you seem familiar with a lot of Solas artwork), is there any art with Merrill and Solas? I always thought the prospect of the two of them meeting and talking would be interesting, given their mutual views on spirits not merely being good or evil and viewing blood magic as a tool.

Well, there is this comic.

Spoiler

Merrill always says that, I wonder if he got them

http://rebloggy.com/...at/126628652566