153429 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

It was backstory that omitted all the bad parts and whitewashed the very nature of what it meant for Drakon to expand his empire. The imbalance is the issue that Ghost and I are addressing.
 

 
Of course Giselle is wrong, but the narrative doesn't treat it as such; she's the one who says who provides the explanation that maybe the Maker is still guiding your hand. In contrast, the Dalish are treated like they got everything wrong - after centuries of slavery by Tevinter and losing their homeland generations later - rather than simply getting a few things wrong and a whole lot more right. It's the double-standards that bother some of us who are critical of how the Dalish were handled in Dragon Age II, TME, and Inquisition.
 

 
Please let me elaborate, since I was meant that in a more general sense. I meant in terms of the developers acting like the Andrastian faith is hands off (as it seems Weekes has no intention of addressing whether or not the Maker is real) while the developers have no problems dismantling the faith of the Dalish and depicting the Creators in a villainous manner (which is the only depiction we have been given so far).

But the informations on Drakon are still in the lore, they aren't retconnetted. Hakkon shown a different side of Drakon. And it's further explained by someone who was his friend, which might be a bit biased. I don't think it was necessary to explain his negative side, when they were already present in the lore. The only real new information is that it seem he didn't have ill intention towards the Dales, which the lore never claimed he had

On the dismantling the elven lore, again, I think it's just part of their decision to reveal some of the Big Lore behind Thedas. From what we know the elven gods were decided to be like that from the start (and people suggested on Arlathan being the elven version of Tevinter long before TME). It's unfortunate that it turned out that the Evanuris and Arlathan were like that, but I don't see what they could've done to avoid disappointing people, other then dropping hints on the Evanuris in DAO to prevent people to get attached too much on the elven lore.
The fact that the Maker's identity might never be revealed (which was something Gaider stated as Well, I believe) doesn't change TNS fact that the elven lore reveal dropped a big blow on the Maker, for now.

If they are favouring Andrastians over the elves lore though, it'd be best to accept that their direction is going towards that and it won't change, since the elves might be, at least some of them, the primary antagonist in the following game/s.

[The Elder King]

I would argue that there is not a retcon, that Minaeve is anomalous, and that Vivienne is either full of crap or just took Minaeve at her incorrect word.

It could be either. Hopefully in the future they'll clear that confusion.

[Gervaise]

To be honest it is heavily implied in Masked Empire that all Dalish are like the clan depicted because of the words of Felassan.   When Briala admonishes him for not warning her about the sort of reception they were likely to receive he says sarcastically:

 

"Oh, Briala, by the way, the people you've idolized for most of your life are actually pompous idiots." Note he doesn't just say this clan are pompous idiots but the people she has idolized, in other words the Dalish.

 

Then when she says they don't care, he says:

"They do not.   Well, that's unfair.   They care for the past.   They care a great deal for it, in fact.   They spend their lives searching for old bits to preserve and pass on.   The old language, the old empire, the old secrets.  But the present?   The present is apparently much less exciting."

 

To which Briala says:  "So while we struggle and endure and burn, they dig in old ruins......"

 

Now Felassan has his own agenda and is a follower of Fen'Harel, so he has no reason to portray the Dalish in a better light and every reason to let Briala be misinformed about the Dalish, but the fact is this creates a similar view in the mind of the reader.    It makes you feel that the Dalish are just pootling about in the forest, recovering ancient lore, oblivious to the suffering of other elves and not caring even when it is brought to their attention.   The attitude of the Keeper is that the clans who do take in refugees from the alienages are the rarity and the exception.    Everything about the depiction of the Dalish in the book is designed to reduce their sympathy for their way of life and for that clan in particular.    The city elves are the only ones who suffer, Briala is the heroine for wanting to help them.   The Dalish are a bunch of jerks who the writer can happily throw under the bus in the form of the demon Imshael and no one will care.

 

Then to add insult to injury one of the first things we learn about the Dalish in DAI is that the Dalish abandon surplus mage children in the woods.    This is very different from the balanced approach to their way of life and their prejudices that we got in DAO and I didn't like the way the narrative was changing.

[LobselVith8]

I would argue that there is not a retcon, that Minaeve is anomalous, and that Vivienne is either full of crap or just took Minaeve at her incorrect word.

 

Here is a good story about Minaeve that addresses the 'three mage' recton and respects the lore about the Dalish.

[Ellawynn]

 

Now Felassan has his own agenda and is a follower of Fen'Harel, so he has no reason to portray the Dalish in a better light and every reason to let Briala be misinformed about the Dalish, but the fact is this creates a similar view in the mind of the reader.    It makes you feel that the Dalish are just pootling about in the forest, recovering ancient lore, oblivious to the suffering of other elves and not caring even when it is brought to their attention.   The attitude of the Keeper is that the clans who do take in refugees from the alienages are the rarity and the exception.    Everything about the depiction of the Dalish in the book is designed to reduce their sympathy for their way of life and for that clan in particular.    The city elves are the only ones who suffer, Briala is the heroine for wanting to help them.   The Dalish are a bunch of jerks who the writer can happily throw under the bus in the form of the demon Imshael and no one will care.

 

 

I'm pretty sure the writers just straight don't care about the Dalish. Not as much as they do other factions in the setting, at least. The story's about Andrastian nations and the ancient elves. It seems like the story's going to continue being about those things, and everything else - Qunari, modern dwarves, etc - are going to show up but never be the true main focus.

 

And I don't understand how that's a bad thing. I don't understand why the devlopers MUST pay every faction in the setting the same level of complexity and dedication. Like, yeah they're playing favorites. But literally everyone plays favorites. The fact that we're talking solely about the Dalish and not also the Qunari/Dwarves/Avvar/Whatever only proves that we're playing favorites.

 

Like, I can't help but think that if Inquisition was all about the Dalish and Andrastians only featured in negative cameos, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And that's fine! Some people care more about the Dalish than Andrastians. That's cool! You're allowed to like some things more than others! But not everyone, not even the writers, are required to share that preference. 

[Arvaarad]

Then when she says they don't care, he says:
"They do not. Well, that's unfair. They care for the past. They care a great deal for it, in fact. They spend their lives searching for old bits to preserve and pass on. The old language, the old empire, the old secrets. But the present? The present is apparently much less exciting."

To which Briala says: "So while we struggle and endure and burn, they dig in old ruins......"

Honestly, it sounds more like Felassan is projecting his own growing unease about his mission onto the Dalish. What he's just described, ignoring the present in service to the past, is his job description.

His words about the Dalish speak more to his own internal conflict than objective truth about modern elves.

[LobselVith8]

But the informations on Drakon are still in the lore, they aren't retconnetted. Hakkon shown a different side of Drakon. And it's further explained by someone who was his friend, which might be a bit biased. I don't think it was necessary to explain his negative side, when they were already present in the lore. The only real new information is that it seem he didn't have ill intention towards the Dales, which the lore never claimed he had.

 

Jaws of Hakkon ignored the ugly sides of Drakon and cast all the blame on the elves; that's a problem. People who are unfamiliar with the lore will assume that Drakon was this White Knight who never did anything wrong (and that was the conclusion many people came to in a myriad of places). That's not balanced storytelling, that's not complicated or nuanced, that's one-sided slandering of one group of people while ignoring all the problems associated with the man ruling the empire that neighbors them.

 

On the dismantling the elven lore, again, I think it's just part of their decision to reveal some of the Big Lore behind Thedas. From what we know the elven gods were decided to be like that from the start (and people suggested on Arlathan being the elven version of Tevinter long before TME). It's unfortunate that it turned out that the Evanuris and Arlathan were like that, but I don't see what they could've done to avoid disappointing people, other then dropping hints on the Evanuris in DAO to prevent people to get attached too much on the elven lore.

 

They could have simply not turned the elven gods into villainous cretins with the depth and complexity of cartoon villains from Rocky and Bullwinkle. Again, that's just how I feel about the situation.

 

The fact that the Maker's identity might never be revealed (which was something Gaider stated as Well, I believe) doesn't change TNS fact that the elven lore reveal dropped a big blow on the Maker, for now.

 

The truth about the veil pales in comparison to making it so that the elven gods aren't gods and depicting them (from all the information we have available at this point) as villains who are arguably cartoonishly evil.

 

If they are favouring Andrastians over the elves lore though, it'd be best to accept that their direction is going towards that and it won't change, since the elves might be, at least some of them, the primary antagonist in the following game/s.

 

Or perhaps simply bow out now, particularly if the developers once again decide to once again handwave elven progress (like they did with the City Elf as Bann and the Dalish Boon) because it was marginally inconvenient for them to address it for those of us who made those choices. Between the vilification of the elven gods, the preferential treatment the developers give to Andrastian characters and groups, and our prior actions for elven progress potentially becoming meaningless so that they don't have to spend a second dealing with it in light of Solas becoming Fen'Harel again, I wouldn't find it entertaining. I suspect I'm not alone in that regard.

[Gervaise]

I am sure you are right that Felassan is really talking about himself, or certainly Solas, than he is about the Dalish but we can analyse it as such because we have some sort of reference point through the previous games.    My point is that if you had never played Dragon Age before but heard about Dragon Age Inquisition shortly to come out and thought you would read Masked Empire by way of an initiation into the lore of the setting before the game, then this is the impression of the Dalish you would have.   There is no one there to really question Felassan's assertions.   Even Briala doesn't but simply accepts his version of the Dalish as genuine.  

 

Similarly, if DAI was your first dip into the Thedas world, what is your earliest introduction to the Dalish? Minaeve recounting her experience.   If you are not playing a Dalish yourself, you don't even have dialogue options to counter what she says or Vivienne, not that you are given much in the way of defence even then.  The only real perspective of the Dalish is that one clan in the Exalted Plains and one positive reference about the Dalish from Leliana.   Everything else comes from either Solas or Morrigan, neither of whom have any respect for them and a biased or inaccurate view of their lore.  

 

Mind you, knowing now what Solas' plans were, it is easier to understand his view about the Dalish's efforts to preserve the past.   A waste of time?   Well, naturally if the Dread Wolf is shortly going to destroy the world.  

[The Elder King]

Jaws of Hakkon ignored the ugly sides of Drakon and cast all the blame on the elves; that's a problem. People who are unfamiliar with the lore will assume that Drakon was this White Knight who never did anything wrong (and that was the conclusion many people came to in a myriad of places). That's not balanced storytelling, that's not complicated or nuanced, that's one-sided slandering of one group of people while ignoring all the problems associated with the man ruling the empire that neighbors them.
 

 
They could have simply not turned the elven gods into villainous cretins with the depth and complexity of cartoon villains from Rocky and Bullwinkle. Again, that's just how I feel about the situation.
 

 
The truth about the veil pales in comparison to making it so that the elven gods aren't gods and depicting them (from all the information we have available at this point) as villains who are arguably cartoonishly evil.
 

 
Or perhaps simply bow out now, particularly if the developers once again decide to once again handwave elven progress (like they did with the City Elf as Bann and the Dalish Boon) because it was marginally inconvenient for them to address it for those of us who made those choices. Between the vilification of the elven gods, the preferential treatment the developers give to Andrastian characters and groups, and our prior actions for elven progress potentially becoming meaningless so that they don't have to spend a second dealing with it in light of Solas becoming Fen'Harel again, I wouldn't find it entertaining. I suspect I'm not alone in that regard.

But Drakon isn't even alive when the conflict explodes. Drakon being relatively innocent about going against the Dales doesn't mean Orlais followed his stance after his death.
I could understand cartoonishly evil (I'll wait and see what the following games will show), but why cretins? There's nothing indicating they're idiots.
Also, again, there's no proof they turned them into. They might've Created them to be like that. Which considering The fact that they wrote the pre-Blight magisters like that, it's possible they went in that direction for both.
Considering the Veil implications might bring to the Maker being not real, or a distorted version of fen'harel, I wouldn't say it pales.

If with bow out you mean not following the series anymore, I agree, if someone cares that much about elven lore in DA that this bother him/her that much, leaving the franchise behind is a reasonable approach.

I still don't think they vilified the elven gods. The plot reveal might've planned from the start of the series. It's certainly not a positive thing, I agree, but I don't fault Bioware if they decided that the elven gods were like this from the start.

[LobselVith8]

And I don't understand how that's a bad thing.

 

You can read one of Ghost's posts for the answer to that question, since Ghost has addressed that more than once.

 

I don't understand why the devlopers MUST pay every faction in the setting the same level of complexity and dedication. Like, yeah they're playing favorites. But literally everyone plays favorites. The fact that we're talking solely about the Dalish and not also the Qunari/Dwarves/Avvar/Whatever only proves that we're playing favorites.

 

This is a thread about Solas, and his actions involve elves and will impact elven lives. His past actions had an irrevocably impact on all elves across the continent, and lead to the dissolution of the elven kingdom. Why wouldn't people discuss elves in a thread about an elven character who has a goal that will impact modern elves?​ There's a reason that there are other threads to discuss topics that involve dwarves, Tevinter, and an assortment of other issues. It's like pointing out that people might be discussing the Qun in a thread about a Qunari character.

 

Like, I can't help but think that if Inquisition was all about the Dalish and Andrastians only featured in negative cameos, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And that's fine! Some people care more about the Dalish than Andrastians. That's cool! You're allowed to like some things more than others! But not everyone, not even the writers, are required to share that preference. 

 

We're allowed to criticize the writing when the Dalish are written as one-dimensional caricatures and we're permitted to point out how ridiculous it is to paint an entire ethnic group of men, women, and children with such a broad crush.

[The Elder King]

 
Mind you, knowing now what Solas' plans were, it is easier to understand his view about the Dalish's efforts to preserve the past.   A waste of time?   Well, naturally if the Dread Wolf is shortly going to destroy the world.

I'd say it's more about the fact that the past the dalish are trying to preserve is a distorted version of the truth, which shows his enemies (which based on what we know were magisters on steroids) as praised.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

Maybe the Dalish just really are isolationist and jerks to outsiders, in general, and that's just actual fact and part of the point of them? That they're stuck in a kind of stagnated, negative cycle as a culture. Due to circumstances, they take on jaded and aggressive attitudes to others, which is understandable. And then these attitudes lead to negative interactions with outsiders, which perpetuates fear and negative actions toward the Dalish, which is just as understandable. And so on and so forth, ad nauseum. Inquisitor Lavellan can even confirm this attitude exists (even in her/his own clan) in some dialogue options, such as with Solas on the balcony when he asks if he's misjudged the Dalish. 

 

Also, it confirms Clan Lavellan as the outlyer that it apparently is in the codex. And makes me even more happy I have them in Wycome. If any clan we've encountered would be the one best suited to build relations with non-Dalish people, it seems like Clan and Inquisitor Lavellan is it. Lavellan's doing it right, actually managing to break the cycle by basically knowing they've gotten dealt a bad hand in current society simply by being elves, but saying "Screw it, we're still helping out those elves and humans in Wycome." and having it work out.

[LobselVith8]

But Drakon isn't even alive when the conflict explodes. Drakon being relatively innocent about going against the Dales doesn't mean Orlais followed his stance after his death.

 

How does Drakon's death change how unbalanced the writing is in JoH? How does it change how JoH focuses on blaming the elves while acting like Drakon is completely blameless? Omitting that any rational person would be wary of Drakon when he's invading neighboring city-states and killing thousands of people who follow different faiths (at the very least) would make anyone hesitant to trust him, but instead we have Ameridan acting like the elves are completely irrational for distrusting Drakon and the empire he built through conquest and forced conversion to his particular Cult of the Maker.

 

Also, again, there's no proof they turned them into. They might've Created them to be like that. Which considering The fact that they wrote the pre-Blight magisters like that, it's possible they went in that direction for both.

 

Planning them to be one-dimensional villains from the start isn't much better. It doesn't really conclude any of the problems that arise with how they have no problem dismantling the elven religion while treating the Andrastian faith as if it's more important (i.e. Gaider and Weekes saying that they will never address whether or not the Maker is real).

 

If with bow out you mean not following the series anymore, I agree, if someone cares that much about elven lore in DA that this bother him/her that much, leaving the franchise behind is a reasonable approach.

 

I'd say regarding the imbalance with multiple areas of the writing, from the lore to how the Dalish are vilified while the Andrastians are whitewashed (i.e. Drakon in JoH as one example).

 

I still don't think they vilified the elven gods. The plot reveal might've planned from the start of the series. It's certainly not a positive thing, I agree, but I don't fault Bioware if they decided that the elven gods were like this from the start.

 

I can certainly fault Bioware when they play favorites.

[Arvaarad]

I am sure you are right that Felassan is really talking about himself, or certainly Solas, than he is about the Dalish but we can analyse it as such because we have some sort of reference point through the previous games. My point is that if you had never played Dragon Age before but heard about Dragon Age Inquisition shortly to come out and thought you would read Masked Empire by way of an initiation into the lore of the setting before the game, then this is the impression of the Dalish you would have. There is no one there to really question Felassan's assertions. Even Briala doesn't but simply accepts his version of the Dalish as genuine.

Similarly, if DAI was your first dip into the Thedas world, what is your earliest introduction to the Dalish? Minaeve recounting her experience. If you are not playing a Dalish yourself, you don't even have dialogue options to counter what she says or Vivienne, not that you are given much in the way of defence even then. The only real perspective of the Dalish is that one clan in the Exalted Plains and one positive reference about the Dalish from Leliana. Everything else comes from either Solas or Morrigan, neither of whom have any respect for them and a biased or inaccurate view of their lore.

And someone starting the series from DA:O (without reading the Calling) would have an inaccurately rosy picture of the Wardens. There are tons of complaint threads about DA:I's "smearing" of the order, but if they'd read the earliest novels, they'd know that Origins gave a skewed perspective based on two junior Wardens who (in truth) knew nothing about the politics of the order.

Everyone in Thedas has their own spin on events. It's something every Dragon Age player will run into, sooner or later.

The elves often get the short end of the stick precisely because they're an oppressed minority who doesn't get much of a chance to speak for themselves. In-universe, the voices of human/Chantry commentators get amplified, while theirs are ignored and dismissed. It's uncomfortable, but it's realistic.

[LobselVith8]

Maybe the Dalish just really are isolationist and jerks to outsiders, in general, and that's just actual fact and part of the point of them?

 

I don't see why the Dalish shouldn't be wary when outsiders typically try to kill them, and how dangerous it can be for them because the Chantry outlawed their religion, making the Dalish de facto criminals for not worshipping the Maker. The fact that this isn't even brought up when Hawke approaches Clan Sabrae is kind of the point some of us are making in criticizing the writing because the casual viewer only understands why the Dalish would be wary if he or she read the codex entries about their history and their present day nomadic culture.

 

Also, it confirms Clan Lavellan as the outlyer that it apparently is in the codex.

 

Even Clan Lavellan deal with humans trying to attack them, which is why they travel in the Free Marches. Clan Lavellan travels "along the borders of each city-state's territory, where Free March rulers will be less inclined to attack them, for fear of accidentally provoking neighboring cities."

 

And makes me even more happy I have them in Wycome. If any clan we've encountered would be the one best suited to build relations with non-Dalish people, it seems like Clan and Inquisitor Lavellan is it. Lavellan's doing it right, actually managing to break the cycle by basically knowing they've gotten dealt a bad hand in current society simply by being elves, but saying "Screw it, we're still helping out those elves and humans in Wycome." and having it work out.

 

It's a unique circumstance, though; it's not really applicable to the other clans who had to deal with being attacked if they simply stayed too long in one region, or who dealt with Andrastians threatening them with violence to convert to their religion (like Clan Sabrae experienced at Sundermount). And that's not even factoring the issue with templars.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I don't see why the Dalish shouldn't be wary when outsiders typically try to kill them, and how dangerous it can be for them because the Chantry outlawed their religion, making the Dalish de facto criminals for not worshipping the Maker. The fact that this isn't even brought up when Hawke approaches Clan Sabrae is kind of the point some of us are making in criticizing the writing because the casual viewer only understands why the Dalish would be wary if he or she read the codex entries about their history and their present day nomadic culture.

 

I edited my post to elaborate a bit, but basically I said their reaction was understandable.

 

Even Clan Lavellan deal with humans trying to attack them, which is why they travel in the Free Marches. Clan Lavellan travels "along the borders of each city-state's territory, where Free March rulers will be less inclined to attack them, for fear of accidentally provoking neighboring cities."

And dealing with the specter of possible aggression by border skirting btwn city states and short-circuiting the potential for fights entirely is clever and goes to show how smart this particular clan is. Its also part of why they're unique. Which was what I was saying.  

[The Elder King]

How does Drakon's death change how unbalanced the writing is in JoH? How does it change how JoH focuses on blaming the elves while acting like Drakon is completely blameless? Omitting that any rational person would be wary of Drakon when he's invading neighboring city-states and killing thousands of people who follow different faiths (at the very least) would make anyone hesitant to trust him, but instead we have Ameridan acting like the elves are completely irrational for distrusting Drakon and the empire he built through conquest and forced conversion to his particular Cult of the Maker.
 

 
Planning them to be one-dimensional villains from the start isn't much better. It doesn't really conclude any of the problems that arise with how they have no problem dismantling the elven religion while treating the Andrastian faith as if it's more important (i.e. Gaider and Weekes saying that they will never address whether or not the Maker is real).
 

 
I'd say regarding the imbalance with multiple areas of the writing, from the lore to how the Dalish are vilified while the Andrastians are whitewashed (i.e. Drakon in JoH as one example).
 

 
I can certainly fault Bioware when they play favorites.

I'm not questioning that Drakon shouldn't have been blindly trusted. I'm saying people that assumed the elves were all
to blame with the conflict, when the war happened after Drakon's death so Orlais might've have their share of faults regardless pf Drakon's position, is wrong.

But it's their right to decide what to do with the various faiths. This decision can be certainly criticized, but if they planned this from the start (elven gods reveal and the Maker remaining secrets) how is playing favourites, when at the moment, since the games weren't released, There were no supporters of either?
If I were a fan of the Andrastian faith I wouldn't certainly like this situation, even if they mantain the Maker's existence vague, but That's just me.

What would you say if they decide to reveal the Maker's identity and it turns out it's a distorted version of the current lore, or that he's Solas?

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

It's a unique circumstance, though; it's not really applicable to the other clans who had to deal with being attacked if they simply stayed too long in one region, or who dealt with Andrastians threatening them with violence to convert to their religion (like Clan Sabrae experienced at Sundermount). And that's not even factoring the issue with templars.

Yeah, its unique circumstances. A unique opportunity. And of all the Clans we've seen or heard about, Lavellan seems like its best suited to take advantage of it and move Dalish/non-Dalish relations forward through simply being Clan Lavellan. I have a good feeling about their chances, is all I'm saying. I wouldn't feel this good about Sabrae (without Marethari) or Zathrien's people being in a similar position. Of course, I doubt the same situation would have even been resolved as it has in their cases. More than likely, they'd have just left the area once the threat to them was passed. Maybe Zathrien's clan would have risked themselves in Wycome to help b/c of Pol and such, but I'm not 100% on that. And I really doubt they'd have stayed afterwards. Lavellan really did show a great deal of far-sightedness, courage, and shrewdness in doing what they did.

[LobselVith8]

What would you say if they decide to reveal the Maker's identity and it turns out it's a distorted version of the current lore, or that he's Solas?

 

That they are treating the Andrastian faith in the same manner that they were treating the religion of the Dalish.

[Ellawynn]

 

This is a thread about Solas, and his actions involve elves and will impact elven lives. His past actions had an irrevocably impact on all elves across the continent, and lead to the dissolution of the elven kingdom. Why wouldn't people discuss elves in a thread about an elven character who has a goal that will impact modern elves?​ There's a reason that there are other threads to discuss topics that involve dwarves, Tevinter, and an assortment of other issues. It's like pointing out that people might be discussing the Qun in a thread about a Qunari character.

 

 

 

 

Solas features very little in the discussion you're having - and besides, it's not like we're going to riot if you dare to talk about the Qunari or dwarves, so there's no need to restrict yourself only to elves. If the main thrust of your argument is that the devs favor Andrastianism too much, then you should be arguing for equal attention to all factions. But the main bulk of your argument is attention to the Dalish.

 

And that's fine. You like the Dalish - you've admitted to liking them more than Andrastians. Which means you are playing favorites. Even if you do like all the non-human factions equally, you admitted to showing favoritism when you said you find Andrastian humans boring.  There's nothing wrong with that! Everyone does it! 

 

But why, when you're clearly doing it yourself, are you getting mad at the devs for doing the same?

[LobselVith8]

Yeah, its unique circumstances. A unique opportunity. And of all the Clans we've seen or heard about, Lavellan seems like its best suited to take advantage of it and move Dalish/non-Dalish relations forward through simply being Clan Lavellan. I have a good feeling about their chances, is all I'm saying. I wouldn't feel this good about Sabrae (without Marethari) or Zathrien's people being in a similar position. Of course, I doubt the same situation would have even been resolved as it has in their cases. More than likely, they'd have just left the area once the threat to them was passed. Maybe Zathrien's clan would have risked themselves in Wycome to help b/c of Pol and such, but I'm not 100% on that. Lavellan really did show a great deal of far-sightedness, courage, and shrewdness in doing what they did.

 

I certainly hope that Clan Lavellan sitting on the council at Wycome isn't undone, as it's one of the nice things that can happen for the Dalish, but I also recall how the Dalish Boon was handled post-Origins - Mahariel leads the Dalish clans and others to defeat the Archemon Urthemiel, the Hinterlands are given to the Dalish as a reward, and the potential sacrifice of the Hero of Ferelden and the sacrifices made by the clans to bring an end to the Fifth Blight are pretty much forgotten as Redcliffe claims control of the Hinterlands and the Dalish get nothing.

[Gervaise]

In terms of the overall effect on the game world, clan Lavellan isn't going to have much impact, so they will probably leave it alone.   No one is really going to object if the elves are getting drunk along with everyone else.   I shouldn't think the Chantry has such a strong influence there as elsewhere because people enjoy themselves too much for that to be the case.   Story tellers in Wycome even start recalling their survival during the 4th Blight was due to the elf Warden Garahel flying them out on makeshift land ships based on Dalish aravels.   The Dalish of course think that flying aravels are a bit far fetched but there is no harm in creating a bit of goodwill by rigging up their aravels to horses that are dressed up to look like griffons and then giving the local children fun rides on them during the major festivals.  Keeps the tradition of the elf hero Garahel alive and makes the Dalish popular with the locals.   It's a win, win situation.

[LobselVith8]

Solas features very little in the discussion you're having - and besides, it's not like we're going to riot if you dare to talk about the Qunari or dwarves, so there's no need to restrict yourself only to elves. If the main thrust of your argument is that the devs favor Andrastianism too much, then you should be arguing for equal attention to all factions. But the main bulk of your argument is attention to the Dalish.

 

It's about how the Dalish are vilified (like in TME), the incessant derogatory comments aimed at Lavellan by a myriad of characters, and the imbalance when it comes to how stories with Andrastians are framed in comparison to how stories with the Dalish are framed. And considering Solas is an elf with an agenda that involves all elves on the continent, I find it more in line than discussing dwarves or the qunari.

 

And that's fine. You like the Dalish - you've admitted to liking them more than Andrastians. Which means you are playing favorites. Even if you do like all the non-human factions equally, you admitted to showing favoritism when you said you find Andrastian humans boring.  There's nothing wrong with that! Everyone does it! 

 

Your line of thought doesn't really make any sense. The racial option I chose to play as isn't comparable to criticisms that I've levied towards the writers In regards to how the Dalish are framed by the narrative, and how they are sometimes vilified.

 

But why, when you're clearly doing it yourself, are you getting mad at the devs for doing the same?

 

Perhaps you should read my posts more carefully because I never advocated for imbalanced writing that depicts Andrastian humans as caricatures or continually treats them in a derogatory manner in the way that I've criticized the developers for handling the Dalish. You're also welcome to read Ghost's posts (as one example) if you require clarification on what some of us find problematic.

[dawnstone]

I definitely have some favoritism going on.

 

[vertigomez]

I definitely have some favoritism going on.
 

That's cute as heck!