Unlike Corypheus, Solas has been built to appear in the game since the very beginning. His deeds and conflict he presents appear central to entire, overarching story. You're fooling yourself if you think he'd just be treated like Corypheus - precisely because he's not an antagonist like the one Cory was.
I'm not denying that he's in the story, just that he'll be the main enemy.
Sorry to butt in, I just wanted to say this seems like an issue with poorly implemented game mechanics, which is something that did plague DA2. But as far as player motivation goes, for me personally the story of DA2 was indeed the most motivating. In DAI I'm just checking off the list of fetch quests for completion points, never actually feeling like I need to do the next step. But I suppose this is subjective.
As for DA4, if it does in fact take place in Tevinter all I want is a well implemented blood mage class, everything else is secondary, just let me play a blood mage again!
I wouldn't be surprised if they put blood mage in as a spec in DA4 if it's set in Tevinter. The biggest problem with putting blood mage in DAO and DA2 is that in DAO having the blood mage spec was largely ignored and in DA2 the very fact that you're a mage (if you are one) is almost completely ignored much less the blood mage spec - and in an area that is mostly dominated by a religion that has a prohibition on blood magic. That always bothered me. In Tevinter, however, it's much less likely to even be remarked upon so it would make more sense.
I wouldn't be surprised if they put blood mage in as a spec in DA4 if it's set in Tevinter. The biggest problem with putting blood mage in DAO and DA2 is that in DAO having the blood mage spec was largely ignored and in DA2 the very fact that you're a mage (if you are one) is almost completely ignored much less the blood mage spec - and in an area that is mostly dominated by a religion that has a prohibition on blood magic. That always bothered me. In Tevinter, however, it's much less likely to even be remarked upon so it would make more sense.
Yep, this was always the issue, the spec itself was so fun to play, but lore-wise it made no sense and was completely ignored by the plot. So I'm really hoping they can finally implement it the way it should be implemented in DA4, a Tevinter setting is just perfect for this.
Sorry to butt in, I just wanted to say this seems like an issue with poorly implemented game mechanics, which is something that did plague DA2. But as far as player motivation goes, for me personally the story of DA2 was indeed the most motivating. In DAI I'm just checking off the list of fetch quests for completion points, never actually feeling like I need to do the next step. But I suppose this is subjective.
As for DA4, if it does in fact take place in Tevinter all I want is a well implemented blood mage class, everything else is secondary, just let me play a blood mage again!
It is partially a matter of game mechanics. The fact that the game does nothing to communicate this to you is certainly. But it's also a failing of story and motivation because the game simply didn't give me a reason to care about what Petrice has to say. Nor does it really give reason to care about some slavers in Lowtown, or some mages hiding out on the Storm Coast. None of these things have personal relevance to Hawke - you're only doing them to get paid, and their money isn't somehow more valuable than what you'd earn doing any other job. Ironically, crossing off items on a check-list is precisely what Act 1 felt like to me.
Too much of the story had me asking "Why am I getting involved? These people are maniacs. It's no skin off my back if they kill each other."
That being said, DA2 had it's good points. The rivalry system was interesting - I wish they had just fine-tuned it, instead of throwing it out entirely.
Didn't they have to cut a big chunk of Inquisition and put it in the fourth game?
They did, yes. Gaider said something to the effect of the story we saw in Inquisition being about half the story arc that had been planned.
I think the idea that the Qunari and/or Tevinters (and heck maybe southerners coming in and screwing with Tevinter) being the initial conflict, with Solas playing puppetmaster and opportunist in the background, is exactly how DA4 will go. And how you deal with those first conflicts will effect how you can deal with him in the end game. But he'll also be a running thread through the entire game, suitably subtle (hopefully) but present. Like the red lyrium of DA2, but with more involvement cus more dev time.
I'm not denying that he's in the story, just that he'll be the main enemy.
Solas can't stand the Tevinter and repeatedly rebuffs poor Dorian's attempts to impress him with Tevinter magic. At one point when Dorian says he wishes Solas could see some of the extraordinary things in Minrathos, Solas even says, "The Imperium is not the safest place for an elf." Not even an elf who is a god. Ergo, Solas won't be willingly entering Tevinter any time soon, making it a better-then-average place to base operations against him. Most, if not all, of his agents are elves as well, meaning Solas's network will have a difficult time operating in the Imperium, considering the restrictions and dangers involved.
But Solas also hates the Qun even more then he hates Tevinter. He thinks of it as slavery and won't budge on the issue, even in the face of Bull's attempts to explain. So he's an enemy in common that might bring the Vints and the Qunari together. Though that... would take some doing.
I imagine in DA4, we may have to choose who we are going to side with in order to fight Solas: the Qun or the 'Vints. Neither is perfect. The Vints are at least still capable of free thought. That's something.
Solas can't stand the Tevinter and repeatedly rebuffs poor Dorian's attempts to impress him with Tevinter magic.
In Solas' defense, Dorian starts off by bragging about how they can enslave spirits to do household chores! 
He couldn't have inserted his foot any deeper into his mouth if he tried. 
And that was my thoughts even before I knew who and what Solas really was. Knowing that stuff now, I'm surprised Solas even continued talking to him after that first conversation and didn't just give him the silent treatment he gives a Qun-loyal Iron Bull.
In Solas' defense, Dorian starts off by bragging about how they can enslave spirits to do household chores!
He couldn't have inserted his foot any deeper into his mouth if he tried.
No, he really couldn't have! 
I mean, I know he doesn't know Solas yet (this is very early party banter) but really, just about everything Dorian says to try and get on Solas's good side is cringe worthy in retrospect. Really, when he apologizes to Solas on behalf of his ancestors destroying Arlatheyan??.... Solas must have choked. 
Oh Dorian, poor baby, I know you want to befriend everybody but this is not helping...
In Solas' defense, Dorian starts off by bragging about how they can enslave spirits to do household chores!
He couldn't have inserted his foot any deeper into his mouth if he tried.
Yeah... Solas is hardly prickly with Dorian (with the exception of Solas' 'fashion style', which is an issue that Dorian simply won't let go Which is hilarious, because if you really think about it, both guys are quite similar and use their clothing as a camouflage/defense technique - one uses flamboyance to scare people away, another 'non-descriptiveness' to make himself unnoticeable) until Dorian reveals his attitude towards spirits as amorphous construct of Fade that can be used however one pleases.
And as well-meaning and generally great Dorian is, he himself admits that he didn't really give it much thought to slavery in his country and in fact the one or two times we can talk with him about it, he shields himself from the issue by pointing out treatment of impoverished and disfranchised in the South. I have no doubt a character as empathetic and caring as Dorian has it in him to fight for those Tevinter enslaved, especially after events in Inquisition... but I do also see it as an excellent opportunity for BW to bring back Calpernia to hold Dorian's feet to the fire 
And as well-meaning and generally great Dorian is, he himself admits that he didn't really give it much thought to slavery in his country and in fact the one or two times we can talk with him about it, he shields himself from the issue by pointing out treatment of impoverished and disfranchised in the South.
He also admits to Sera that he'd never even spoken to elves who weren't slaves before he came down south...but is happy he has now. All things considered, Dorian handles the culture shock pretty well.... some very ill-advised words to Solas notwithstanding. If he can't be made to personally answer for slavery in Tevinter, at least he doesn't feel compelled to continue defending it, not like Bull constantly making excuses for the Qun.
When Solas demands he prove he really is sorry by freeing the slaves of all races imprisoned in Tevinter, Dorian admits he doesn't think he can. That's telling: when put on the spot, Dorian doesn't try and argue that being poor in an alienage is equivalent to being enslaved. He doesn't argue the principle. He just doesn't think such a thing is possible. It's definitely beyond HIS power. Solas then says what good is his regret then.
It will be interesting to see, in DA4, how Solas might react if the player CAN potentially abolish slavery in Tevinter. On one hand, it helps Solas because now his elven agents can move a lot more freely. On the other, it's potentially yet another test of his resolve.
Someone should bring up to him that the story of a mage who once destroyed the world waking up thousands of years after the fact, looking around at a present he doesn't recognize and resolving to destroy the world all over again to try and make things just how they used to be....isn't that exactly what Corytheus did? How did that end for him?
Someone should bring up to him that the story of a mage who once destroyed the world waking up thousands of years after the fact, looking around at a present he doesn't recognize and resolving to destroy the world all over again to try and make things just how they used to be....isn't that exactly what Corytheus did? How did that end for him?
Considering that he distinguishes himself from Corypheus only with the fact that he doesn't do what does gladly tells me that he's painfully aware that inevitably he puts himself in he same spot Corypheus was not that long ago.
With that said, Corypheu's plan was fairly simple - get to Black City somehow and rule the world as a god, with restored Tevinter as his favored nation. We don't really know what Solas's plans really are now, but considering he's not a Blight-carrying madman, knows way more about Coryabout the actual nature of the world and doesn't appear to have any illusions of grandeur, we probably can assume that his plans are somewhat more nuanced and - in his mind - likely worth putting himself in a position of a villain...
we probably can assume that his plans are somewhat more nuanced and - in his mind - likely worth putting himself in a position of a villain...
That's the thing too: Solas seeming determination to be the Big Bad Wolf...to the point where he will fight anything he considers more monstrous then he is. On one hand, he's willing to fight for the underdog, but on the other hand he's still on the wrong path.
And that's what makes me think that the cost of stopping him might be cutting off the Fade forever. No more mages, no lyrium, no spells, no magic, no spirits, dreams are just random images your sleeping mind conjures up. If Solas thinks he hates the world as it is NOW, when access to the fade is just limited, as opposed to impossible...
Would he back down then?
That's the thing too: Solas seeming determination to be the Big Bad Wolf...to the point where he will fight anything he considers more monstrous then he is. On one hand, he's willing to fight for the underdog, but on the other hand he's still on the wrong path.
And that's what makes me think that the cost of stopping him might be cutting off the Fade forever. No more mages, no lyrium, no spells, no magic, no spirits, dreams are just random images your sleeping mind conjures up. If Solas thinks he hates the world as it is NOW, when access to the fade is just limited, as opposed to impossible...
Would he back down then?
Personally, that isn't a thing I would do. I would prefer to let him win completely rather than do that.
Personally, that isn't a thing I would do. I would prefer to let him win completely rather than do that.
It's the world we already live in in the real world. If it would save the lives of everyone currently living in Thedas, then... hey, at least someone will invent the Internet someday. You've got that to look forward to.
It's the world we already live in in the real world. If it would save the lives of everyone currently living in Thedas, then... hey, at least someone will invent the Internet someday. You've got that to look forward to.
I refuse. I will never cut off the Fade entirely.
That's the thing too: Solas seeming determination to be the Big Bad Wolf...to the point where he will fight anything he considers more monstrous then he is. On one hand, he's willing to fight for the underdog, but on the other hand he's still on the wrong path.
And that's what makes me think that the cost of stopping him might be cutting off the Fade forever. No more mages, no lyrium, no spells, no magic, no spirits, dreams are just random images your sleeping mind conjures up. If Solas thinks he hates the world as it is NOW, when access to the fade is just limited, as opposed to impossible...
Would he back down then?
I think for him the possibility of cutting the Fade - and possibly turning most/all people Tranquil - equals end of the world. And considering he's already fatalistic and sometimes acts as if the end of some kind threats the wold either way I think from his perspective he's simply fighting to give the world - with Fade in it and all - its last chance.
It's the world we already live in in the real world. If it would save the lives of everyone currently living in Thedas, then... hey, at least someone will invent the Internet someday. You've got that to look forward to.
Erm... no. Thedas is not the world "we live in today". It's superficially similar, but we know that the Fade is intrinsically connected to sentient beings' consciousness. And we know what happens when people are cut off from the Fade (even non-mages, as evidenced by those who have failed Rite of Tranquility that makes one a Seeker, which is an order mages haven't joined for centuries). Their consciousness is diminished to the point it's pretty much non-existent. What's more, Cole tells us that without mind of the living there is nothing on the side of the Fade, hence - no spirits as well. Cutting away the Fade basically means annihilation of life/sentience on both sides.
And before someone mentions dwarves - dwarves have a special connection to Titans. And Titans are alluded to be connected to the Fade, so even though something that happened to the Titans has diminished dwarves and robbed them of dreams, they have retained some sort of connection via their connection with Stone/Titans.
Erm... no. Thedas is not the world "we live in today". It's superficially similar, but we know that the Fade is intrinsically connected to sentient beings' consciousness. And we know what happens when people are cut off from the Fade (even non-mages, as evidenced by those who have failed Rite of Tranquility that makes one a Seeker, which is an order mages haven't joined for centuries). Their consciousness is diminished to the point it's pretty much non-existent. What's more, Cole tells us that without mind of the living there is nothing on the side of the Fade, hence - no spirits as well. Cutting away the Fade basically means annihilation of life/sentience on both sides.
And before someone mentions dwarves - dwarves have a special connection to Titans. And Titans are alluded to be connected to the Fade, so even though something that happened to the Titans has diminished dwarves and robbed them of dreams, they have retained some sort of connection via their connection with Stone/Titans.
Not called for.
Exactly what such a world would look like remains to be seen. Even the Tranquil we've met have not lacked sentience. They are aware, thinking creatures, even without their dreams and desires, and as we have learned, the Rite of Tranquility itself is neither as clean-cut nor as permenent as was assumed once.
I remember hearing Allegra's (V.O for Josephine) theory that one reason Solas strongly encourages Cole to embrace his spirit nature is that as a spirit, Cole will survive the cataclysm. Sure enough, Spirit Cole leaves for the Fade after Trespasser because "he knew where compassion was most needed." What happens in the real world affects the spirit world, so my guess is this means he knows a lot of very distressed spirits are incoming.
Allegra theorizes though, that since Solas clearly values spirit life above mortal life, and the spirit world above the mortal world... would he still do what he's planning on doing if it would mean the spirits would die too? If it's true that cutting the Fade off from Thedas completely would devastate the world of the spirits, that's one more reason he would want to stop his plan before it goes too far. If one world has to die so the other can live, then... what do you do?
That's the thing too: Solas seeming determination to be the Big Bad Wolf...to the point where he will fight anything he considers more monstrous then he is. On one hand, he's willing to fight for the underdog, but on the other hand he's still on the wrong path.
And that's what makes me think that the cost of stopping him might be cutting off the Fade forever. No more mages, no lyrium, no spells, no magic, no spirits, dreams are just random images your sleeping mind conjures up. If Solas thinks he hates the world as it is NOW, when access to the fade is just limited, as opposed to impossible...
Would he back down then?
Er, make everyone seriously Tranquil forever? When people are totally cut off from the Fade they DON'T dream. They don't feel anything. Such a world would stagnate and die. The Tranquil have no desires, no dreams, no emotions. They would likely not have children because to them there would probably be little point. So humans/elves/qunari would die out. The dwarves might live but their disassociation from the Fade is evidently quite different from everyone else's.
It's the world we already live in in the real world. If it would save the lives of everyone currently living in Thedas, then... hey, at least someone will invent the Internet someday. You've got that to look forward to.
Our world is fundamentally different then Thedas. Our world has never had a Fade, the world of spirits and dreams (if it even exists) has never been, at one point, actually connected to the physical world.
Not called for.
Exactly what such a world would look like remains to be seen. Even the Tranquil we've met have not lacked sentience. They are aware, thinking creatures, even without their dreams and desires, and as we have learned, the Rite of Tranquility itself is neither as clean-cut nor as permenent as was assumed once.
I remember hearing Allegra's (V.O for Josephine) theory that one reason Solas strongly encourages Cole to embrace his spirit nature is that as a spirit, Cole will survive the cataclysm. Sure enough, Spirit Cole leaves for the Fade after Trespasser because "he knew where compassion was most needed." What happens in the real world affects the spirit world, so my guess is this means he knows a lot of very distressed spirits are incoming.
Allegra theorizes though, that since Solas clearly values spirit life above mortal life, and the spirit world above the mortal world... would he still do what he's planning on doing if it would mean the spirits would die too? If it's true that cutting the Fade off from Thedas completely would devastate the world of the spirits, that's one more reason he would want to stop his plan before it goes too far. If one world has to die so the other can live, then... what do you do?
How is what she said not called for? Is it not accurate? And the Tranquil may not lack sentience but they lack dreams and desires. If the Fade is cut off permanently for everyone ... what does the Rite of Tranquility have to do with that? They wouldn't try to reverse it. They wouldn't want to reverse it. They wouldn't care enough and it likely wouldn't even occur to them.
Er, make everyone seriously Tranquil forever? When people are totally cut off from the Fade they DON'T dream. They don't feel anything. Such a world would stagnate and die. The Tranquil have no desires, no dreams, no emotions. They would likely not have children because to them there would probably be little point. So humans/elves/qunari would die out. The dwarves might live but their disassociation from the Fade is evidently quite different from everyone else's.
As we have discovered, the Tranquil are not really cut off from the Fade, just made invisible within it, since it is a person's passions and desires that draws spirits to them. This led to the conventional wisdom that they cannot be possessed, even though they can, and that they cannot cast spells, even though it seems to in practice be more of a case of they no longer have the will to call the Fade through the way they used to.
I think it's going too far to say, for sure, that cutting off the Fade would automatically make everyone Tranquil. Solas said current Thedas was "like living in a world of Tranquil" even though people, mage and non-mage, live normal, desire-filled lives within it. So his isn't the most objective opinion.
How is what she said not called for? And the Tranquil may not lack sentience but they lack dreams and desires.
The rudeness. We don't need that.
As for the Tranquil, we find ourselves in a chicken/egg scenario. Do they lack dreams and desires because they have been cut off from the Fade, or have they had their dreams and desires cut off because that cuts them off from the Fade? I would like to remind you that the Tranquil are still present in the Fade, they are just invisible because the things that used to draw spirits to them are not there anymore. They can't cast because they can't use their desires to will the Fade into doing their bidding. Normal people, non-mages, live like this all the time and aren't Tranquil.
As for Cassandra's vigil, I think there's a lot we still don't know about that, or what the Rite of Tranquility really does to someone who is not a mage. Having lyrium branded into your head doesn't sound healthy no matter who you are.
I bet you dollars to donuts the "Tranquil Cure" and what to do with it is going to be a plot point in DA4, one way or another.
The rudeness. We don't need that.
As for the Tranquil, we find ourselves in a chicken/egg scenario. Do they lack dreams and desires because they have been cut off from the Fade, or have they had their dreams and desires cut off because that cuts them off from the Fade? I would like to remind you that the Tranquil are still present in the Fade, they are just invisible because the things that used to draw spirits to them are not there anymore. They can't cast because they can't use their desires to will the Fade into doing their bidding. Normal people, non-mages, live like this all the time and aren't Tranquil.
As for Cassandra's vigil, I think there's a lot we still don't know about that, or what the Rite of Tranquility really does to someone who is not a mage. Having lyrium branded into your head doesn't sound healthy no matter who you are.
I bet you dollars to donuts the "Tranquil Cure" and what to do with it is going to be a plot point in DA4, one way or another.
Rudeness? She said, "Erm ... no". At least, that was the part you highlighted. This does not strike me as rude. It is a statement of disagreement. There were no insults nor did I read any sort of intent to be rude there.
Also, where are you getting that the Tranquil are simply invisible but still present in the Fade? Is it from one of the books?
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