Also, where are you getting that the Tranquil are simply invisible but still present in the Fade? Is it from one of the books?
One of the conversations you can have, I believe .. . It's the reason why Tranquil can still become possessed, even though the conventional wisdom was that was impossible. Uldrid called the demons himself and put them in the Tranquil. This would not be possible if the Tranquil were truly cut off from the Fade.
One of the conversations you can have, I believe .. . It's the reason why Tranquil can still become possessed, even though the conventional wisdom was that was impossible. Uldrid called the demons himself and put them in the Tranquil. This would not be possible if the Tranquil were truly cut off from the Fade.
Demons and spirits can possess corpses and trees. I don't think either of those are connected to the Fade. Also, which conversation and with whom? I'm not trying nag but I'd really like to know. I haven't heard this so I must have missed a conversation somewhere and this bothers my mild OCD.
Allegra theorizes though, that since Solas clearly values spirit life above mortal life, and the spirit world above the mortal world... would he still do what he's planning on doing if it would mean the spirits would die too?
I've heard this theory before, but it's like - wouldn't Solas know all that? He probably hangs out more with spirits than real people. If they all vanished he'd probably be like "Yo spirits, what's up?" and the spirits would be all like "The apocalypse is up, bro, stop doing that." and then Solas would be like "oh okay. Sorry dudes."
Given how that obviously hasn't happened, I imagine Solas is aware. Maybe he has a plan. Maybe he thinks they're worth the price. Maybe he's the one warning them about the Veil in the first place. Iunno.
I've heard this theory before, but it's like - wouldn't Solas know all that? He probably hangs out more with spirits than real people. If they all vanished he'd probably be like "Yo spirits, what's up?" and the spirits would be all like "The apocalypse is up, bro, stop doing that." and then Solas would be like "oh okay. Sorry dudes."
This is what makes me think that he's willing to distress the spirits, especially the more compassionate ones like Cole, if that's the price of tearing down the Veil. It remains to be seen if he would be willing to kill spirits, en masse, if that's was what was required. And why, again, I theorize that cutting the Fade off from the real world entirely, with something more concrete then the Veil, might be the price of stopping his plan, if for no other reason then it would mean all of the spirits who rely on the real world for sustenance and stimulation would die or go mad, their purpose denied.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be an evil thing to do. It absolutely would be. A PC who finds a way to do this is, in their way, a bigger monster then Solas ever could be. But if it saves the lives of every man, woman, and child currently living in Thedas, then... I know what I might feel compelled to do, rather then watch the world burn.
This is what makes me think that he's willing to distress the spirits, especially the more compassionate ones like Cole, if that's the price of tearing down the Veil. It remains to be seen if he would be willing to kill spirits, en masse, if that's was what was required. And why, again, I theorize that cutting the Fade off from the real world entirely, with something more concrete then the Veil, might be the price of stopping his plan, if for no other reason then it would mean all of the spirits who rely on the real world for sustenance and stimulation would die or go mad, their purpose denied.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be an evil thing to do. It absolutely would be. A PC who finds a way to do this is, in their way, a bigger monster then Solas ever could be. But if it saves the lives of every man, woman, and child currently living in Thedas, then... I know what I might feel compelled to do, rather then watch the world burn.
Well... I'd rather burn the world once and let it recover over permanently lobotomizing it.
Demons and spirits can possess corpses and trees. I don't think either of those are connected to the Fade. Also, which conversation and with whom? I'm not trying nag but I'd really like to know. I haven't heard this so I must have missed a conversation somewhere and this bothers my mild OCD.
Corpses have already had their spirits pass into the Fade, which is why the Veil is weak in places where death and violence has happened, like battlefields. And... well, trees are living creatures. How do we know what their connection to the Fade may or may not be?
And now I'm trying to remember too... it may have been an audiobook, actually.... The masked empire? Damn... this is gonna bother me...
It's funny how often conventional wisdom and long-held belief and religious texts are often proved flat out wrong on a consistent basis in the game.
Spirits can possess animals, corpses, trees, entire forests, basically anything organic, Tranquil would be no different.
What we know about Tranquil is that from being cut off from the Fade they have little to no emotions, do not dream, essentially lose their free will and agency, to the point that the majority can barely take care of themselves and are often subject to horrific abuse that they cannot resist. This is all due to being severed from the Fade.
The less connection to the Fade a person has, the more Tranquil they will become, thus if you strengthen the Veil further, or cut off the Fade completely, the entire world except possibly the dwarves (depending on whether the Titans existing and being able to dream is integral to their continued existence, even separated from them as they are) will become unfeeling zombies. The only society that would welcome this sort of existence is the Qun because people could operate in their proscribed roles without any emotional resistance.
Corpses have already had their spirits pass into the Fade, which is why the Veil is weak in places where death and violence has happened, like battlefields. And... well, trees are living creatures. How do we know what their connection to the Fade may or may not be?
And now I'm trying to remember too... it may have been an audiobook, actually.... The masked empire? Damn... this is gonna bother me...
Some research reveals that something like this was mentioned in Asunder. I will have to read this to know the context. But now it will not longer bother you. 
It's funny how often conventional wisdom and long-held belief and religious texts are often proved flat out wrong on a consistent basis in the game.
Spirits can possess animals, corpses, trees, entire forests, basically anything organic, Tranquil would be no different.
What we know about Tranquil is that from being cut off from the Fade they have little to no emotions, do not dream, essentially lose their free will and agency, to the point that the majority can barely take care of themselves and are often subject to horrific abuse that they cannot resist. This is all due to being severed from the Fade.
The less connection to the Fade a person has, the more Tranquil they will become, thus if you strengthen the Veil further, or cut off the Fade completely, the entire world except possibly the dwarves (depending on whether the Titans existing and being able to dream is integral to their continued existence, even separated from them as they are) will become unfeeling zombies. The only society that would welcome this sort of existence is the Qun because people could operate in their proscribed roles without any emotional resistance.
I don't know that it would be a world full of zombies. The Tranquil are still intelligent and can think. But it sounds like it might be a Vulcan's idea of heaven. =p
It's funny how often conventional wisdom and long-held belief and religious texts are often proved flat out wrong on a consistent basis in the game.
Spirits can possess animals, corpses, trees, entire forests, basically anything organic, Tranquil would be no different.
What we know about Tranquil is that from being cut off from the Fade they have little to no emotions, do not dream, essentially lose their free will and agency, to the point that the majority can barely take care of themselves and are often subject to horrific abuse that they cannot resist. This is all due to being severed from the Fade.
The less connection to the Fade a person has, the more Tranquil they will become, thus if you strengthen the Veil further, or cut off the Fade completely, the entire world except possibly the dwarves (depending on whether the Titans existing and being able to dream is integral to their continued existence, even separated from them as they are) will become unfeeling zombies. The only society that would welcome this sort of existence is the Qun because people could operate in their proscribed roles without any emotional resistance.
We don't have any evidence of this.
Again, are the Tranquil the way they are because their connection with the Fade is interfered with, or are they made the way they are because robbing them of desires and dreams will interfere with their connection to the Fade? Does anyone even know for sure?
All living (and formerly living) things are connected to the Fade in some way. This makes me think you CAN'T really cut a mage off from the Fade, Tranquil or no, they retain that connection.
And Solas thinks people already ARE unfeeling zombies. Maybe he needs a reality check.
Again, not saying it wouldn't be a terrible thing to do. But I wouldn't put it past Bioware to make "destroy all magic" their version of that "Destroy the mass relays" bittersweet ending thing they did in ME3. Except, hopefully, you know... not.
We don't have any evidence of this.
Again, are the Tranquil the way they are because their connection with the Fade is interfered with, or are they made the way they are because robbing them of desires and dreams will interfere with their connection to the Fade? Does anyone even know for sure?
And Solas thinks people already ARE unfeeling zombies. Maybe he needs a reality check.
I don't think Solas believes people are unfeeling zombies. By saying after waking up it was like walking through a world full of Tranquil, he was using a simile to get the player to understand how different the world was to him now. The Fade being shut off from the world and no one having a full, conscious connection to it would be has horrifying to him as everyone being Tranquil would be to us. At least, this was my interpretation.
I don't think Solas believes people are unfeeling zombies. By saying after waking up it was like walking through a world full of Tranquil, he was using a simile to get the player to understand how different the world was to him now. The Fade being shut off from the world and no one having a full, conscious connection to it would be has horrifying to him as everyone being Tranquil would be to us. At least, this was my interpretation.
He needs a better similie then, because those "Tranquil" actually do have thoughts and desires, and they will fight for them. Which is all the more reason Solas should abandon this plan of his before the price escalates into one he's not willing to pay.
We don't have any evidence of this.
Again, are the Tranquil the way they are because their connection with the Fade is interfered with, or are they made the way they are because robbing them of desires and dreams will interfere with their connection to the Fade? Does anyone even know for sure?
And Solas thinks people already ARE unfeeling zombies. Maybe he needs a reality check.
That doesn't make much sense. Robbing them out of desires and dreams MEANS cutting them away from the Fade. Both things are effectively the same. Fade IS dreams, memory *and*, apparently, consciousness.
But if you mean it whether it was proven beyond any doubt that it's the rite that cuts people from Fade and therefore robs them from dreams then yes - it has most definitely been proven so.
And no - Solas doesn't think people are "unfeeling zombies". He obviously distinguishes between modern Thedosians and actual Tranquils. What he says is actually that people are LIKE Tranquil, not actual Tranquil - it was an illustration for Inquisitor, not an actual description. For him walking among modern Thedosians was like it would be for a modern Thedosian to walk among Tranquil.
And it is actually a viable proof that the less connection to the Fade a person has, the more Tranquil they will become. Because most people have retained at least the unconscious connection to the Fade, hence retained their dreams, memories and consciousness in far greater measure than Tranquil did. They obviously are lacking something though, for both Solas and Abelas.
We don't have any evidence of this.
I believe it is heavily implied, but I see that is not enough for you. Time will tell if the theory bears out.
I think it would definitely play more into the horror aspects of the game which were reined in on in Inquisition, if they were to take the worldbuilding and the implications of further strengthening the Veil in that direction.
That doesn't make much sense. Robbing them out of desires and dreams MEANS cutting them away from the Fade. Both things are effectively the same. Fade IS dreams, memory *and*, apparently, consciousness.
The Fade IS The Fade. Dreams and spells and the like are manifestations of The Fade. Cut off their desire, and they cannot cast anymore. Likewise, spirits find their way towards humans by feeling their emotions. Cut off those, and you make it much harder for a spirit to see you. The fact of the Fade has not changed, nor has your connection to it, all that's altered is your ability to manifest it.
The fact that Tranquil can be possessed, and that Tranquility can be reversed via direct contact with a spirit is more evidence that the Tranquil are not really SEPARATED from the Fade, they are just made less able to inferface with it. The Fade is still there.
And again, we have non-mages who never walk in the Fade except in dreams and are rarely possessed. They don't miss anything for it.
What he says is actually that people are LIKE Tranquil, not actual Tranquil - it was an illustration for Inquisitor, not an actual description.
Then I stand corrected, he really needs a reality check. I sentence you to a month of living among actual Tranquil. Does he have any idea how insulting he's being? "You can't manifest the fade at will, so your dreams and desires might as well not exist?" What the hell, man?
Then I stand corrected, he really needs a reality check. I sentence you to a month of living among actual Tranquil. Does he have any idea how insulting he's being? "You can't manifest the fade at will, so your dreams and desires might as well not exist?" What the hell, man?
Given all he can do with Lavellan, I think he's well aware their desires exist.
But yeah, he probably had some less than kind opinions on mortals pre-Inquisition. Have you seen a low-approval run of Trespasser? He's such a hardass. It's great.
Art post.
"...Solas?" Lavellan with Solas in his white wolf form. 
Source: https://fenrirsruthl...pt-doodleshould
'The healer has the bloodiest hands'. Solas and Lavellan's hands.
Source: http://flufs.tumblr....iest-hands-when
Funny Solavellan modern AU texts. 
(NSFW-ish for Solas butt.)
Source: http://solavellangar...m-and-he-has-to
Solas with earrings.
Source: http://littlespocker...st/147318199763
In the case any of the visitors to this thread enjoy writing fanfiction/making fanart for Solas rarepairs, and are interested in exchanges, there's a Dragon Age exchange (for any rare pairing, not just with Solas, obviously) just starting up, which is still taking nominations:
The Black Emporium: A Dragon Age Rare Pair Fanwork Exchange.
FAQ can be found here.
Pairings already nominated can be found here.
Signups: July 25 - August 10
And no - Solas doesn't think people are "unfeeling zombies". He obviously distinguishes between modern Thedosians and actual Tranquils. What he says is actually that people are LIKE Tranquil, not actual Tranquil - it was an illustration for Inquisitor, not an actual description. For him walking among modern Thedosians was like it would be for a modern Thedosian to walk among Tranquil.
Yeah, I suspect he mostly refers to access to magic, rather than access to emotions.
I think of it this way. If we were rocketed back into the dark ages, what analogy would we use to describe what we lost? We might start by saying that we could search the sum of human knowledge, hear songs sung in every language of the world, poetic stuff like that.
That wouldn't help medieval people grasp the sheer depth of the loss. They might think, "oh cool, you had all these powers, that must have been nice to have." But what that doesn't capture is the instinctive way we reach for our phones. The seamless line from thinking a thought to seeing the google results for it. The sense of shared humanity that comes from playing and working with everyone on the earth. Losing the internet would be like losing a part of ourselves.
Yet, it's a part that medieval people never had to begin with, and would be perfectly satisfied without. So how to describe it, except by analogy to emotions or senses? To things they understand? Things that don't describe it at all, really?
The Fade IS The Fade. Dreams and spells and the like are manifestations of The Fade. Cut off their desire, and they cannot cast anymore. Likewise, spirits find their way towards humans by feeling their emotions. Cut off those, and you make it much harder for a spirit to see you. The fact of the Fade has not changed, nor has your connection to it, all that's altered is your ability to manifest it.
Well then, how is it that the Tranquil lose the ability to *manifest* their emotions, lose much of their memory and lose sense of self-preservation or motivation?
Obviously these things are intrinsically connected. This isn't just manifesting the Fade.
The fact that Tranquil can be possessed, and that Tranquility can be reversed via direct contact with a spirit is more evidence that the Tranquil are not really SEPARATED from the Fade, they are just made less able to inferface with it. The Fade is still there.And again, we have non-mages who never walk in the Fade except in dreams and are rarely possessed. They don't miss anything for it.
... But that only strengthens the notion that less Fade = more Tranquil, and that there are likely many levels people can be separated from it, with Tranquil being most severe. Solas, after all, tells us about how the Veil "cut most people's conscious connection to the Fade". Tranquility obviously cuts way more than that.
Also - everybody who cam dream actually walks the Fade every time they sleep. The difference between them and mages/dreamers is that they can't do that consciously.
You also can't say that they "don't miss anything for it", especially that it's been established in the narrative that the Fade was precisely what made ancient elves so powerful and immortal, among other things. Mages appear to be possessed on South en masse predominantly because of oppressive culture that makes everyone fear mages and the Fade, or being pretty much ignorant on matters of Fade and spirits - which includes mages themselves. We don't really hear of that many possessions in Tevinter, we know that the Avvar totally accept possessions and they're hardly ever turn bad and we don't even know if this was much of an issue in Elvenhan.
Then I stand corrected, he really needs a reality check. I sentence you to a month of living among actual Tranquil. Does he have any idea how insulting he's being? "You can't manifest the fade at will, so your dreams and desires might as well not exist?" What the hell, man?
Well then, how is it that the Tranquil lose the ability to *manifest* their emotions, lose much of their memory and lose sense of self-preservation or motivation?
They don't lose those things. During Broken Circle, the Tranquil in charge of the store room will refuse to leave it, even if you order him to, because he thinks he is safer if he stays where he is. He clearly still has survival instincts. He's not going to go running through floors full of demons and abominations if he doesn't think he has another option. And in Inquisition we hear from more then one Tranquil motivated to find places and ways to apply their (sometimes considerable) knowledge and live useful lives, even in a world that can't help but be freaked out by them.
The Tranquil may not express themselves the way they used to, but they still possess the things that are supposed to be taken from them. And, again, we don't know if these things are specifically linked to the Fade, or if they are just how the Fade pushes through to affect our world. Chicken/egg.
... But that only strengthens the notion that less Fade = more Tranquil, and that there are likely many levels people can be separated from it, with Tranquil being most severe. Solas, after all, tells us about how the Veil "cut most people's conscious connection to the Fade". Tranquility obviously cuts way more than that.
Tranquility cuts away something, but whether that something is really related to the Fade itself or if it's a sort of lobotomy that represses the things that a mage usually uses to control the Fade remains to be seen.
I'd be curious to know what happens if the Rite is performed on a non-Mage. There's a lot we don't know about Cassandra's vigil, but THAT doesn't involve lyrium, and the Rite does. Again, getting lyrium branded into your head doesn't sound healthy under any circumstances, but is that what makes Tranquil so... tranquil? Because if so, then the Rite just takes your desires and dreams from you, and doesn't really affect your connection to the Fade at all.
You also can't say that they "don't miss anything for it", especially that it's been established in the narrative that the Fade was precisely what made ancient elves so powerful and immortal, among other things.
You're missing the point. Solas is well aware what *actual Tranquil* is. His comparison should make you realize the extent of how Solas thinks the Veil is hurting people, by denying them access to something in their life he considers very important.
As I've said, he's in dire need of a reality check, both in terms of how insulting he's being and in the "you know, everything doesn't revolve around YOU" variety. After all, Sera insists she's just fine the way she is, and Solas can't talk her into feeling otherwise. All of the "elven glory" stuff isn't interesting to her. Solas might insist it's because people like Sera have no concept of what was lost, but I'm sure he'd rather believe that then consider that she might know exactly what was lost and still not care. The little people just trying to live their lives would, I'm sure, rather be left alone.
Some research reveals that something like this was mentioned in Asunder. I will have to read this to know the context. But now it will not longer bother you.
Many thanks! 
Yeah, I suspect he mostly refers to access to magic, rather than access to emotions.
I think of it this way. If we were rocketed back into the dark ages, what analogy would we use to describe what we lost? We might start by saying that we could search the sum of human knowledge, hear songs sung in every language of the world, poetic stuff like that.
That wouldn't help medieval people grasp the sheer depth of the loss. They might think, "oh cool, you had all these powers, that must have been nice to have." But what that doesn't capture is the instinctive way we reach for our phones. The seamless line from thinking a thought to seeing the google results for it. The sense of shared humanity that comes from playing and working with everyone on the earth. Losing the internet would be like losing a part of ourselves.
Yet, it's a part that medieval people never had to begin with, and would be perfectly satisfied without. So how to describe it, except by analogy to emotions or senses? To things they understand? Things that don't describe it at all, really?
I don't mean this offensively, but I think you may be overrating the internet. Medieval people may not have had instant communication with people halfway around the world, but they did have the sense of knowing and depending on their neighbors in their own town, which is something a lot of modern society has lost. And both examples are just different methods of social connection. Neither group has a one-up in that department, IMO.
The sum of human knowledge on most topics at our fingertips is nice, though. lol
Slightly changing the subject. We know that Solas trapped the Evanruis and that raising the Veil had something to do with it. However, we don't really know how he managed that so they were all locked away at once. Except we do have the legend of the Dalish and in particular Merrill's version of it. Leaving aside the fact that the Evanuris do not seem to have trusted Fen'Harel as the Dalish claim, nevertheless she does say that he tricked them by claiming there was a special weapon that the other side had created. He also apparently said the same to the Forgotten Ones. With each group he tells them where the weapon has been hidden, so they rush off to try and get to it first and once in the stated location, he trapped them. Do you suppose there is an element of truth in this story? Even if he didn't talk with them direct, perhaps he arranged for them to discover the information for themselves. It does seem curious that trying to get the ultimate weapon is something that would interest the Evanuris as depicted in Trespasser and enticing them into his trap with that as the bait would be a good way of trapping them all at once.
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