153429 réponses à ce sujet

[Nimlowyn]

It wasn't even a legit source to begin with.

I had a few anthropology and literature professors give us materials from sacred-texts.com to save us money on textbooks. It was a good source for that purpose. Depends on how you're using it. 

[IHaveReturned1999]

Exactly, nor does one fringe source automatically mean QED.
 
(Besides, the Egyptians owe their civilisation to the Goa'uld anyway, so this entire thing is moot)

Dude that's Stargate SG-1 dude. That's from a TV show.......

[ladyiolanthe]

Today I led a two-hour nature walk through a beach ridge/sand dunes/wetlands complex in northern Alberta. We just managed to dodge rain before and after the hike.

 

People who have lived here longer than me joke about the "June Monsoon," which now seems to be extending into July. I don't mind because May was so dry I was really worried that we'd have a ton of forest fires this summer.  Also, it has brought the lake levels up a lot!

 

I also like Solas, and hope that his story arc has a satisfactory end.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Dude that's Stargate SG-1 dude. That's from a TV show.......

It's almost like they were making a joke, hence the  .

[IHaveReturned1999]

It's almost like they were making a joke, hence the  .

It's not very a good one. Not good at all.

[Sifr]

It's not very a good one. Not good at all.

 

Alas, we cannot be nearly as amusing as your grasp of history, I fear.

 

But we're getting away from discussion about the Egg.

 

Does anyone else wonder whether the "Slow Arrow" actually based on a real event? I was musing on whether Solas enacted a plan that took a very long time to come to fruition, so that eventually his quarry let his guard down which was precisely when he struck?

 

Or one of the more morally questionable things he might have done, was unleash something terrible on the People to wipe away his enemies (the slave masters), only to then step in to keep the children (the slaves) safe from harm? Perhaps the monster in the tale was actually some kind of plague or creature that he unleashed, that he alone could cure or call back?

 

(Although I doubt the plague option was the Blight, since both Flemeth and Solas seem to be susceptible to it's effects)

[CapricornSun]

Art post.

 

Solas and Lavellan (in the Fade?).

Spoiler

Source: http://howtotrainyou...ostasy-for-this

 

Skull study with Solas by kallielef. 

Spoiler

Source: http://kallielef.tum...trash-thrown-in

 

Gorgeous portrait of Solas. 

Spoiler

Source: https://right-in-the...i-request-solas

 

Modern AU Solas with hair: Ginger hair and black hair.

Spoiler

Source: https://fenrirsruthl...s-is-ginger-but

 

"I was Solas first. Fen'Harel came later."

Spoiler

Source: http://tyrphi.tumblr...arel-came-after

 

'The Dread Wolf comes in humble disguises.'

Spoiler

Source: http://tfwshems.tumb...eople-and-their

[Nimlowyn]

*goes to look up what 85 degrees Fahrenheit is in Celsius*

 

30 DEGREES IN WINTER!! *spills coffee everywhere*

I wish I could send you a blast of Antarctic air we're getting right now. That is just straight up horrible.

Yep, this year it was 30 degrees Celcius in Winter, and since Spring, we've been mostly grey and 15-25 Celsius (I thiiiink that's equivalent to 60-75 degrees Farenheit). So we had it backwards this year. Solas describes the Veil as "a state of nature, like the wind". I think Solas already lifted the Veil in my part of the world.  

 

Though really, if (when? if?) Solas removes the Veil...technical capabilities aside, I have to figure you're going to see MAJOR weather disturbances. That alone would kill a lot of people.

 

 

 

Does anyone else wonder whether the "Slow Arrow" actually based on a real event? I was musing on whether Solas enacted a plan that took a very long time to come to fruition, so that eventually his quarry let his guard down which was precisely when he struck?

 

Or one of the more morally questionable things he might have done, was unleash something terrible on the People to wipe away his enemies (the slave masters), only to then step in to keep the children (the slaves) safe from harm? Perhaps the monster in the tale was actually some kind of plague or creature that he unleashed, that he alone could cure or call back?

 

(Although I doubt the plague option was the Blight, since both Flemeth and Solas seem to be susceptible to it's effects)

I believe it is based on a real event. It is a point of interest to me that we hear it from Felassan. If I recall TME well (it's been a couple years) he seemed pretty bitter at the retelling. It made me wonder if Felassan was one of those children. But then, why would he share the name, Slow Arrow? Maybe he was the "weapon" and he grew to regret his role. 

 

I'd love to learn more of the truth behind the fable. 

[lynroy]

Alas, we cannot be nearly as amusing as your grasp of history, I fear.

But we're getting away from discussion about the Egg.

Does anyone else wonder whether the "Slow Arrow" actually based on a real event? I was musing on whether Solas enacted a plan that took a very long time to come to fruition, so that eventually his quarry let his guard down which was precisely when he struck?

Or one of the more morally questionable things he might have done, was unleash something terrible on the People to wipe away his enemies (the slave masters), only to then step in to keep the children (the slaves) safe from harm? Perhaps the monster in the tale was actually some kind of plague or creature that he unleashed, that he alone could cure or call back?

(Although I doubt the plague option was the Blight, since both Flemeth and Solas seem to be susceptible to it's effects)

Ah, yes. I have seen speculation that it is a story about the creation of the veil. The beast represents the Evanuris and the slow arrow represents the veil.

[GoldenGail3]

Dude that's Stargate SG-1 dude. That's from a TV show.......

I'd pefered if they were compared to the enemies of Stargate Altanis than to SG-1, lol. 

[GoldenGail3]

I had a few anthropology and literature professors give us materials from sacred-texts.com to save us money on textbooks. It was a good source for that purpose. Depends on how you're using it. 

I was suspicious on the outlook on the page - I don't like pages looking that way, it makes them look too unprofessional for my liking. I rather like pages with actual coding in order to make it look somewhat believable, lol. 

[Sifr]

I believe it is based on a real event. It is a point of interest to me that we hear it from Felassan. If I recall TME well (it's been a couple years) he seemed pretty bitter at the retelling. It made me wonder if Felassan was one of those children. But then, why would he share the name, Slow Arrow? Maybe he was the "weapon" and he grew to regret his role. 

 

I'd love to learn more of the truth behind the fable. 

 

Perhaps Felassan and Shartan were both Agents of Fen'Harel?

 

Felassan was the "Slow Arrow" meant to denote an agent meant for covert operations and long cons, since that seems to be what he was doing by grooming Briala and his interaction with the Dalish.

 

Shartan may have been someone who was tasked with taking care of immediate concerns and where stealth wasn't an option, which is what lead him to be the public face during the attempt to end elven slavery for the second time as part of Andraste's army?

 

Would be kind of fun to imagine Solas having his own versions of a Left and Right Hand of the Divine, one for stealth, one for direct action. Although that really depends on whether Shartan was actually an agent, or Solas was even coordinating them during his millennia long power nap?

[Ellawynn]

Perhaps Felassan and Shartan were both Agents of Fen'Harel?

 

Felassan was the "Slow Arrow" meant to denote an agent meant for covert operations and long cons, since that seems to be what he was doing by grooming Briala and his interaction with the Dalish.

 

Shartan may have been someone who was tasked with taking care of immediate concerns and where stealth wasn't an option, which is what lead him to be the public face during the attempt to end elven slavery for the second time as part of Andraste's army?

 

Would be kind of fun to imagine Solas having his own versions of a Left and Right Hand of the Divine, one for stealth, one for direct action. Although that really depends on whether Shartan was actually an agent, or Solas was even coordinating them during his millennia long power nap?

 

Shartan as an ancient elven agent of Solas? That's... new. Interesting. 

 

And it would explain some things too. Prior to Trespasser I had assumed Solas had some hand in the creation of the Dales. It makes him cynicism make a little more sense - he already tried to make things better the normal way and it fell apart. It made his dislike of the Dalish make more sense too, especially when taken with that "There's nothing worse than watching fools squander what you sacrificed to achieve." line. Which always seemed a bit strange to me, since... well, he didn't watch any one squander anything. He was in uthanera while the elves destroyed each other. Unless he meant mortals in general as squandering the freedom from the Evanuris - or the elves losing both Elvhenan and the Dales.

 

...But I still find it unlikely. Connection to Shartan aside, his insistence that he's done nothing but sleep since the Veil went up would still imply to me that he really wasn't doing anything of interest. Maybe Shartan was acting of his own accord, though? Hmm.

 

Trespasser's so frustrating. It was supposed to be the tell-all, but there are still so many questions...

[Elessara]

Shartan as an ancient elven agent of Solas? That's... new. Interesting. 

 

And it would explain some things too. Prior to Trespasser I had assumed Solas had some hand in the creation of the Dales. It makes him cynicism make a little more sense - he already tried to make things better the normal way and it fell apart. It made his dislike of the Dalish make more sense too, especially when taken with that "There's nothing worse than watching fools squander what you sacrificed to achieve." line. Which always seemed a bit strange to me, since... well, he didn't watch any one squander anything. He was in uthanera while the elves destroyed each other. Unless he meant mortals in general as squandering the freedom from the Evanuris - or the elves losing both Elvhenan and the Dales.

 

...But I still find it unlikely. Connection to Shartan aside, his insistence that he's done nothing but sleep since the Veil went up would still imply to me that he really wasn't doing anything of interest. Maybe Shartan was acting of his own accord, though? Hmm.

 

Trespasser's so frustrating. It was supposed to be the tell-all, but there are still so many questions...

 

Solas didn't *just* sleep though.  He also wandered in dreams and he's a Dreamer.  It's entirely possible he had some contact with his agents. 

[midnight tea]

Solas didn't *just* sleep though.  He also wandered in dreams and he's a Dreamer.  It's entirely possible he had some contact with his agents. 

 

We have proof of that in TME. Plus, he did say that he ordered his agents to lead Venatori to his orb while he was still sleeping.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

When did I say I would save you? Hang ten dudes. 

California needs more desalinization plants. Or slightly looser regulations restricting river water usage b/c of a fish or turtle or something, depending on where you live in the state. 

 

But I can totally see Fen'Harel giving you "Water, water everywhere, and not a drop to drink.". lol

 

 

Ah, yes. I have seen speculation that it is a story about the creation of the veil. The beast represents the Evanuris and the slow arrow represents the veil.

That's what I thought the Slow Arrow tale was possibly referring to, as well. 

 

I'm also curious just how accurate the Andruil's Tree story is, specifically with Andruil's characterization. Cus if that is accurate for her, she is near top of my list of Evanuris that are gonna get shanked if I get the chance.

[Gervaise]

Yes, the story sounds like a allegory of his battle with the Evanuris.   The elves were asking him to fight them direct but he knew he didn't have the power, so he shot his arrow into the air (he distracted the Evanuris so they wouldn't see what he was planning) and then the arrow fell (the Veil went up) destroying the beast (Evanuris were imprisoned).   Then the survivors gave thanks for him saving them.    In Where the Willows Wail the elves acknowledge they are free even if it wasn't quite the freedom they wanted.  

 

It is the same with the story of him chewing through his ropes while the two gods fought over him.    I think that was an allegory of how he tricked the two sets of gods.  The Dalish have always taught that both sides trusted him, which seems unlikely now given the warning we find.   However, in the story Andruil (the Creator) and Anaris (a Forgotton One) are fighting over who has the right to Fen'Harel (who has been captured).    The Dalish claim that both sides were fighting in a war when he trapped them.   Then in the story Fen'Harel keeps playing off one side against the other until he manages to chew through his bonds and escape.   The story even has both gods slumbering to heal their wounds when he breaks free.   So it could be that the two sets of gods did so wear themselves out in the war that they withdrew to their respective strongholds to recover and that is when he struck.    The Dalish believe he locked the Creators in the Eternal City and the Forgotten Ones in the Void.   Corypheus says the Golden City was empty but may be they travelled through an eluvian inside the city to a sort of safe house.    Cole said something about them being trapped behind the mirror.    Which would explain Solas being so angry with Felassan for giving control of the network to someone else.

 

Whatever else you think of Solas, I have to admit that if he did pull off that feat of trapping all the Creators and all of the Forgotten Ones in one move, that was a great bit of tactical manoeuvring.   Mind you he is very good at chess.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I don't know if Andruil's Tree is also an allegory for the veil raising. I mean, yes it mentions both sides slumbered, but I think Mythal is mentioned as slumbering to recover from her wounds when she fought Andruil and took her void-induced madness and memories from her? Plus we have the practice of Uthenera existing. I think its possible slumbering gods just means they actually slept to recover.

 

It is a similar situation in that Fen'Harel is shown to manipulate both an Evanuris and a Forgotten One for his own ends, but it just doesn't seem to be about the veil to me. He doesn't harm either group. He just distracts them while he escapes.

[Gervaise]

It's not specifically about the Veil.   It  is about breaking free from your bonds.   It could just have been a story that he made up for Briala's benefit but you never know, it could have been how he managed to do it.

 

I notice in the story of the tree that Anaris hates Fen'Harel more than Andruil does.   She is only angry at him for hunting her halla and wants him to serve as her sex slave in recompense, Anaris wants to kill him for crimes against the Forgotten Ones.   So that refutes the Dalish assertion that the Forgotten Ones saw him as one of their own.  At least by this point in the story they really want him dead.   They did a bit of a hatchet job on the reputation of the Creators but they hardly mentioned the Forgotten Ones at all.   The Dalish teach they are really nasty types, which makes you wonder what he could have done to hate him so.  Of course we know that elves worship the Forgotten Ones as well as the Creators and they have vallaslin too.   May be simply removing their vallaslin was enough for the Forgotten Ones to want him dead, particularly if we are right and they can actually control their slaves through their vallaslin.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

It definitely does give an example of the possible relationship dynamics btwn the groups back in the day.

 

And I have to wonder if "hunting my halla" was a euphemism for "poaching my slaves". Or perhaps the theories that halla actually were elves at one point, put into deer form via Ghilanain's experiments, are true and that was why he was "hunting" them. Either as an attempt to free them, or as an attempt at mercy killing. (That particular fan theory always reminds me of Tucker and Nina from FMA and it makes me sad.)

[Gervaise]

Another crazy theory of mine.   The old dragon gods were the split soul of the Creators.    When he trapped the main soul, the dragon counterpart went into hibernation to await their return.   Then he sealed them in too.    Whatever the Veil did it blocked connection with the elves' minds as well.   So the Creators looked for someone else to help them escape and found the human Dreamers.  All they could hear was whispers from the Fade and had impressions of dragons in their minds.   Everything they were encouaged to do was with the purpose of ultimately breaking into the Golden City and freeing them.   But Solas had booby trapped the City, so anyone breaking in got instantly transported elsewhere, the interior of the dead Titan where they encountered the corruption that the elves had been trying the seal away.  Unfortunately this breaks the seal (or the Magisters did from within).   Then the darkspawn go in search of the gods who tricked them, led on by the "song" of the dragon as it slept.    The reason Solas was so concerned about the Wardens killing the last of the dragon gods was that it doesn't kill their soul entirely (the Wardens got that wrong) but allows it to return to the Fade, ready to reunite with their other half when it is released.   So each time you kill an archdemon it makes the Evanuris stronger on their return.   Hence Flemeth intervening to "save" the soul of the old god in order to absorb it herself.   If you are wondering why the Evanuris would have turned against the elves and encouraged their enslavement, well isn't that what they always were?   Another way of avenging themselves on Fen'Harel from their prisons.   So far as these ancient beings are concerned (Flemeth never calls Mythal an elf) everyone is there just to serve them.

[Gervaise]

You know what the really disappointing thing about Trespasser was for me?   It wasn't discovering the Evanuris were mage tyrants.    Or that Solas was responsible for the elves loss of empire, magic and immortality.    It was the fact that for the majority of the time it seemed like he really was that rebel hero that the scholars had suggested.   There was still the possibility that giving his orb to Corypheus was an accident and there was a good reason for him killing Flemeth.   All the noble sentiments and moral indignation that he had expressed to my companions was genuine and my hope that Fen'Harel was going to help the modern elves by leading them to a new homeland was going to be realised.  He was still one of the good guys.    Then he told me.   He had deliberately given the orb to Corypheus, he had intended on dropping the Veil and fiery chaos all round and only his misjudgement of Corypheus had prevented it.   He intended going through with his plan.  We were all going to die along with the rest of the modern world.

 

Anyone who knows me would tell you I don't swear much, unless I am really, really upset about something.    I swore a lot at my computer screen that day.

[Uirebhiril]

You know what the really disappointing thing about Trespasser was for me?   It wasn't discovering the Evanuris were mage tyrants.    Or that Solas was responsible for the elves loss of empire, magic and immortality.    It was the fact that for the majority of the time it seemed like he really was that rebel hero that the scholars had suggested.   There was still the possibility that giving his orb to Corypheus was an accident and there was a good reason for him killing Flemeth.   All the noble sentiments and moral indignation that he had expressed to my companions was genuine and my hope that Fen'Harel was going to help the modern elves by leading them to a new homeland was going to be realised.  He was still one of the good guys.    Then he told me.   He had deliberately given the orb to Corypheus, he had intended on dropping the Veil and fiery chaos all round and only his misjudgement of Corypheus had prevented it.   He intended going through with his plan.  We were all going to die along with the rest of the modern world.

 

 

Honestly, I really hope we don't have the full story yet and there are a lot more twists in the plot before we finally get to understand the whole of it. Not even necessarily to the benefit of Solas, such as to make him look better or to make people "understand" and "feel better" about what he is doing, though obviously I'd like at least something like that so he doesn't end up portrayed as just another mustache-twirling villain. I just really like the idea that we are kept on our toes and learn that everything we thought we knew up to X point is actually wrong, or not entirely correct, and there's Y thing over here that adds more question and speculation. Whatever the outcome at that point, I would be satisfied if it meant we had a story that kept us guessing until the very end.

 

So Trespasser would give us this WTF view of Solas and what he intends, but DA4 gives us another bit of the puzzle and even more uncertainty of what is really going on, and by the time we have DLC we can finally put some concrete truth to the plot. Complexity! It makes a story good.

 

...also make the wait a real pain in the ***.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

You know what the really disappointing thing about Trespasser was for me?   It wasn't discovering the Evanuris were mage tyrants.    Or that Solas was responsible for the elves loss of empire, magic and immortality.    It was the fact that for the majority of the time it seemed like he really was that rebel hero that the scholars had suggested.   There was still the possibility that giving his orb to Corypheus was an accident and there was a good reason for him killing Flemeth.   All the noble sentiments and moral indignation that he had expressed to my companions was genuine and my hope that Fen'Harel was going to help the modern elves by leading them to a new homeland was going to be realised.  He was still one of the good guys.    Then he told me.   He had deliberately given the orb to Corypheus, he had intended on dropping the Veil and fiery chaos all round and only his misjudgement of Corypheus had prevented it.   He intended going through with his plan.  We were all going to die along with the rest of the modern world.

 

Anyone who knows me would tell you I don't swear much, unless I am really, really upset about something.    I swore a lot at my computer screen that day.

I had already been thinking that he'd given the orb on purpose. It was the only reason I could think of that explained why he was just hanging around the inn conveniently in Haven(per not only the dialogue about him conveniently showing up after the Breach, but also Varric's little promotional cinematic video. Solas is at a table in the background.). It showed Solas knew exactly where Corypheus was and didn't move in to do anything about it. He was waiting. I didn't want it to be true. I wanted it to be explainable by some other way. But in the back of my mind, I knew the score going in to Trespasser. (And this same intuition tells me he's gonna end up filling the "redemptive death" trope in the end of all this, but I am studiously ignoring it. >_>)

 

I am glad my first playthrough was high approval/romance with him. At least then I see that he's having second thoughts. The cold detachedness he has towards you is a flimsy cover and you can see his conflict. I don't think the "noble sentiments and moral indignation" he expressed in the base game are false. I think you still see that Solas is indeed that noble rebel, who both believes in helping/protecting the innocent and in fighting for his people. The rub is that we aren't his people. So two of his core drives are in conflict with one another. But Trespasser also left me with the hope that we'll be able to resolve that. So, all in all, I think this turn in the story is very dramatic and, assuming both Solas and the people of Thedas can end up being saved, it will end up being one part of a set of absolutely brilliant writing. 

 

Complexity! It makes a story good.

 

...also make the wait a real pain in the ***. 

Quoted For Truth

[Ellawynn]

Another crazy theory of mine.   The old dragon gods were the split soul of the Creators.    When he trapped the main soul, the dragon counterpart went into hibernation to await their return.   Then he sealed them in too.    Whatever the Veil did it blocked connection with the elves' minds as well.   So the Creators looked for someone else to help them escape and found the human Dreamers.  All they could hear was whispers from the Fade and had impressions of dragons in their minds.   Everything they were encouaged to do was with the purpose of ultimately breaking into the Golden City and freeing them.   But Solas had booby trapped the City, so anyone breaking in got instantly transported elsewhere, the interior of the dead Titan where they encountered the corruption that the elves had been trying the seal away.  Unfortunately this breaks the seal (or the Magisters did from within).   Then the darkspawn go in search of the gods who tricked them, led on by the "song" of the dragon as it slept.    The reason Solas was so concerned about the Wardens killing the last of the dragon gods was that it doesn't kill their soul entirely (the Wardens got that wrong) but allows it to return to the Fade, ready to reunite with their other half when it is released.   So each time you kill an archdemon it makes the Evanuris stronger on their return.   Hence Flemeth intervening to "save" the soul of the old god in order to absorb it herself.   If you are wondering why the Evanuris would have turned against the elves and encouraged their enslavement, well isn't that what they always were?   Another way of avenging themselves on Fen'Harel from their prisons.   So far as these ancient beings are concerned (Flemeth never calls Mythal an elf) everyone is there just to serve them.

 

I don't think he booby trapped anything. I think the Golden City became corrupted by the Taint the Evanuris already had.

 

Solas probably assumed no one could get in the Fade, at least not physically, and not to the Golden City especially. If the Veil was at least partially a quarantine measure, to keep the Blight out of the physical world, why would he intentionally drop people there? Especially given his own hatred for Blight magic?