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[AlleluiaElizabeth]

New bit of trivia about Solas.   Well it's new to me.   It's taken from the Core Rulebook 2015.   Apparently Fen'Harel was known for his "dark wisdom".   Also, in addition to being known as the Great Trickster, he was also called "the bringer of Nightmares". 

 

That story Felassan taught about someone attending a funeral of the king's daughter, wanting to discover the name of a girl he had seen there, appealing to several gods but only Fen'Harel answered him, with the words "kill the king's other daughter", sounds like pretty dark wisdom to me.    And this story came from one of his allies.   I'm not saying it is actually true but way to go Felassan if you want to improve your god's image from that of an evil trickster.

When did Felassan tell Briala that one??? I do not remember that story in TME.

[lynroy]

Fel tells it to her as they travel with Celene and Michel to the Dalish.

The story for those that want to read it:

Spoiler

"“There was a young noble in fair Arlathan,” Felassan said, “and it happened that the elven king lost one of his two daughters to a serpent’s bite. At the ceremony to commemorate her life, the young noble saw an elven lady so fair and perfect that his heart broke—but by the laws of ancient Arlathan, he was forbidden to speak with her during the ceremony, and he did not learn who she was, so he could not ask her family to court her. The young noble prayed to the gods that he might meet the elven lady again. He prayed to Mythal for love, to Dirthamen for the secret of the elven lady’s name, and to Andruil for luck in the hunt for this woman. And finally, he made an offering to Fen’Harel … and the Dread Wolf was the only one who answered. In a dream that night, he told the noble what he needed to do to see his heart’s love again. Do you know what he said?”

After a moment’s thought, Briala sighed. “Kill the king’s other daughter.”

Felassan chuckled. “You begin to think like Fen’Harel.”"

Chapter 9 if you have the book.

[ladyiolanthe]

To be honest, I feel like that story needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It feels to me a lot like the story of the judgment of Solomon from the bible, wherein two women are fighting over a baby. King Solomon suggests the solution is to cut the baby in half. The true mother says to give the baby to the other woman, while the false mother says sure, cut it in half.

 

Similarly, I'm not convinced that Fen'Harel is actually telling the young noble to kill the other princess. Maybe he is saying "Dude, there are plenty of fish in the sea. Do you REALLY need this woman THAT much? Get on with your life - find someone else. You'll be much happier for it."

 

(Maybe Fen'Harel is also saying "Stop pestering us Evanuris for inconsequential things like helping you find some woman you have the hots for. We have rather more important things to do.")

[Auirel]

It sounded like his particular brand of dry humour to me, a young man proudly embracing the insult of Fen'Harel. Of course what he said and how he said it could be read in any particular way you would like if you want it to fit a certain narrative. He might have smirked as he said it. He might have shrugged or said it in an exasperated sort of way. The story doesn't really tell us any of that.

 

Now I'm wondering how he got the title Fen'Harel in the first place. What exactly did he do that was so notable for the Evanuris to start calling him that?

[Sifr]

And the Twilight Zone twist ending of that tale should be;

 

Spoiler

After creeping into her chamber in the dead of night, the man murdered the King's second daughter and despite the blood on his hands, felt joy and vindication that he would soon see the woman of his dreams once more.

 

As if to grant his wish, the clouds parted and the moon illuminated the scene of his foul deed. It was then the young man's face turned into a mask of terror, as he saw that the slain princess before him was the fair maiden he had seen at the ceremony.

 

And Fen'Harel whispered from the darkness, "See child... I promised that you would see her again"

 

(Wait, does my ending make me more evil than Fen'Harel?)

[CapricornSun]

Art.

 

Solas with golden leaves.

Spoiler

Source: http://bigbuffpugpuf.../gilt-gilt-gilt

 

Papa Solas looking at his baby.

Spoiler

Source: http://sirladysketch...ank-you-all-for

 

Solas.

Spoiler

Source: http://hajimehaga.tu...ich-one-i-liked

 

Concept!Solas.

Spoiler

Source: http://louminx.tumbl...uests-how-about

 

Solas with hair and qunari armor based on this screenshot.

Spoiler

Source: http://destinyaposta...ck-draw-the-elf

[Sifr]

That last bit of art makes me wish that ears piercings become optional in the CC for DA4, as they look great on characters like Varric and the Arishok, so it'd be nice to see some humans, qunari, dwarves and elves given the chance to rock that look in the next game.

[Shechinah]

That last bit of art makes me wish that ears piercings become optional in the CC for DA4, as they look great on characters like Varric and the Arishok, so it'd be nice to see some humans, qunari, dwarves and elves given the chance to rock that look in the next game.

 

Dosen't need to be elaborate or long items: I'm fine with a simple earring and simple ear cuffs.

[Loons1337]

So I have trying to figure out the meaning of the Solas and Cole party banter as I stumbled across it in an old save today: (romanced solas ofcourse)

 

"You're real, and it means everyone could be real. It changes everything, but it can't.”  I tried googling but wasnt able to find any theory crafts on this :/ Maybe I am a  bad googler however, but still. I think this is so interesting. What does "you are real and it means everyone could be real" even mean?

[Gervaise]

I think the title Fen'Harel was simply meant to frighten people.    They were presumably aware of wolves.    So this is the ultimate big, bad wolf.     Even Solas' own image of himself looks really scary.    As he says, it sort of backfired on the Evanuris, because his followers started using it as a badge of pride.   "We are followers of the big, bad wolf that the Evanuris are so afraid of" and Solas thought to himself, "You know that isn't such a bad idea", because then the slaves will get the impression that he really does have the power to challenge the Evanuris and that is why they are so afraid of him, when as he admits he really didn't.

 

The warning of the Evanuris actually acknowledges that his true threat was in his propaganda, his ability to persuade people to his cause.    They speak of him as a humble wanderer, who seems so knowledgeable and speaks such fair words, but is really the Dread Wolf with his poisonous lies.  

 

The story about the love struck elf simply reinforces the idea of doing what is necessary to achieve your aims.    It is not about the morality of the story as relates to Fen'Harel's conduct, so much as how someone had a problem and Fen'Harel gave him a solution.   It was up to the young man if he followed the advice.   No one was forcing him to.   It is quite possible that if the ruling class were as bad as Solas says, the elf might actually have gone along with it but that is not really the point of the story.   I was joking really about Felassan reinforcing Fen'Harel's image.    That didn't matter at all and trying to show Fen'Harel in some other light than a trickster might have made Briala question his links with the Dalish sooner.   The story was shown to illustrate that the reasons why someone does something are important.   Why did the young man consult Fen'Harel in the first place?  Because he wanted to find out the identity of a girl.    Why did Fen'Harel suggest he murder the other daughter of the king?   Not because he bore her any ill will but because the young man had asked for a solution to his problem.      He is making the point that Celene couldn't care less about the elves in Orlais.   She isn't some enlightened monarch trying to make amends for the past.   She has done all that she has done because Briala asked her to.   Briala's efforts on their behalf are the reason that the elves are better off under Celene and if Briala was out of the picture, that would be an end of it.   

 

However, when he says "You begin to think like Fen'Harel" and Briala says: "It was only logical...." as though she wants to defend herself from such an accusation, he does reply "That was a compliment, da'len".    And Solas did get a lot of pleasure out of observing the Game.   He also likes and is good at chess.    It does suggest that Solas has a mind that thrives on solving problems, watching how other people do so and a very logical approach to things.   This needs to happen, so I must do this.    Again it comes back to the denial of good and evil or allowing emotions to get in the way of what must be done.   Hence him cutting herself off from Lavellan because she is encouraging him to feel dangerous emotions when it comes to doing what is necessary.   The white wolf fighting back against the dread one.

[Addictress]

http://youtu.be/IfaV7tkLl60

Shout out to Oakland.

I live right next to Oakland....if anyone wants to hang out and talk about Solas...I'm here.

[Elessara]

So I have trying to figure out the meaning of the Solas and Cole party banter as I stumbled across it in an old save today: (romanced solas ofcourse)

 

"You're real, and it means everyone could be real. It changes everything, but it can't.”  I tried googling but wasnt able to find any theory crafts on this :/ Maybe I am a  bad googler however, but still. I think this is so interesting. What does "you are real and it means everyone could be real" even mean?

 

It probably means something along the lines of:

 

When Solas first woke up, he didn't regard the people of Thedas as real people because they lacked a conscious connection to the Fade.  To him, they were probably only really half alive.  So tearing down the Veil with all of the resulting chaos and destruction, putting them out of their miserable half existence would be a good thing, right?  Then he falls in love with Lavellan and realises that he's wrong, they ARE real people and if he went through with this plan he'd be killing all of these real people and that would be horrible ... but if he didn't go through with this plan he wouldn't be able to save HIS people.

 

Actually, what's kind of funny is, at this point, he thinks Lavellan is real but he's still on the fence about everyone else.

[TheyCallMeBunny]

A post on Tumblr (can be read here) directed me towards the Japanese story of Yaoya Oshichi, which bears striking similarities to the tale Felassan tells Briala about Fen'Harel and the king's second daughter. On Wikipedia it says:

 

 

In December 1682, she fell in love with Ikuta Shōnosuke (or Saemon), a temple page, during the great fire in the Tenna Era, at Shōsen-in, the family temple (danna-dera). The next year she attempted arson, thinking she could meet him again if another fire occurred. She was caught by the police and burnt at the stake in Suzugamori for her crimes.

 

As we can see the outcome for the lady was very bad. Solas mentions that he used to be young and foolish; perhaps this is not a reference to the creation of the Veil, but to the fact that the advice he would give were logically sound but nevertheless very flawed? Maybe his reasoning when putting up the Veil was similar, and now he has seen the devastating consequences of it? 

[Gervaise]

I think part of his problem is that he does think like a chess player.   He can plan ahead any number of moves and thinks he has allowed for every eventuality but only if everything else is working to the same logic.   So the Veil was a disaster because his plan was all about out manoeuvring the Evanuris, which you have to admit he did brilliantly.   To have managed to entrap all seven Creators, not to mention possibly the Forgotten Ones as well, in one decisive move was one hell of a feat to pull off.   So he yells, "Check mate" and then whilst it is game over for them, the house has caught fire (metaphorically speaking).   He was too busy concentrating on the game moves to even consider there might be unintended consequences.  

 

Similarly Corypheus not getting killed by the explosion was a bit like someone putting a whole new piece into play.  That's not fair, he would think, you are not playing by the rules.   His forward thinking was only concentrating on what logically should have happened if you play by the rules he knows, not if someone "cheats".     I still maintain he should still have anticipated the possibility of rebirth but I think it is not so much that he didn't think something like that was possible, because he acknowledged as much for the Evanuris (hence locking them away rather than killing them) but he just didn't anticipate a human mage, even an ancient human mage would have worked out how to do it.   That does come from an arrogance about the superiority of the elven knowledge and power.   It is his weakness and that might be something we can exploit. 

[Auirel]

I think the title Fen'Harel was simply meant to frighten people.    They were presumably aware of wolves.    So this is the ultimate big, bad wolf.     Even Solas' own image of himself looks really scary.    As he says, it sort of backfired on the Evanuris, because his followers started using it as a badge of pride.   "We are followers of the big, bad wolf that the Evanuris are so afraid of" and Solas thought to himself, "You know that isn't such a bad idea", because then the slaves will get the impression that he really does have the power to challenge the Evanuris and that is why they are so afraid of him, when as he admits he really didn't.

But what did Solas do that led to the Evanuris giving him that title? You would have to do something particularly spectacular and deviant in order to be labelled as such from people who see themselves as gods. I want to know that story. 

[Uirebhiril]

But what did Solas do that led to the Evanuris giving him that title? You would have to do something particularly spectacular and deviant in order to be labelled as such from people who see themselves as gods. I want to know that story. 

 

He did say it was originally intended as an insult. Perhaps it was meant to sarcastically imply he was only a hound dog of meager stature, incapable of taking on powerful individuals. Like, "ooh, we're just SO quaking in our boots, you're going to come and huff, and puff, and blow our house down!"

 

And then he did do just that, after a fashion. That'll teach 'em.

[Ellawynn]

But what did Solas do that led to the Evanuris giving him that title? You would have to do something particularly spectacular and deviant in order to be labelled as such from people who see themselves as gods. I want to know that story. 

 

As that one codex in ToM points out, "Dread Wolf" is a modern corruption Fen'Harel's actual translation. The name he was given was probably meant to mean "Wolf of Rebellion," not Dread/Treachery, and it's pretty easy to see what he did to earn him the title of rebel. The wolf part probably came before, when he was still loyal to... Mythal, I guess?

 

It's not much of an insult, though, really.

[TheyCallMeBunny]

So, I thought of something... if the story Felassan told to Briala truly depicts how it was during the time of the Evanuris... does this mean that only they were more or less immortal? I thought all elves were immortal? And also, we know that people considered the Evanuris to be gods, but was there a hierarchy below them that consisted or kings and nobles, or was that reserved for themselves only?

 

I'm beginning feel more certain that most of Felassan's stories are completely made up and adapted to suit current times (I know, some will probably think this conclusion obvious, but I've always been a bit undecided as to how much was myth and how much was fact). 

[Tanyara]

 
Well, if the wardens knew the cure, and they knew people could be cured, who would that person be?
 

I don't remember if there are any higher ranking wardens than the warden commanders. Is there a top position in Weisshaupt? If that's the case then probably he/she is one of the few with the knowledge. Maybe there's even a book like the one Cassandra got from Lucius.

And the Weisshaupt wardens are actually known for being very grim and secretive.

[Gervaise]

Actually the Wardens might not want their own number to be cured of the taint.   Not while archdemons are around since they are the only ones who can kill it.   Fiona would have been useless as a Grey Warden since she no longer had it.    Actually there was another interesting passage in the Core Rulebook suggesting that it might not be the only way you can kill an archdemon but having come up with the method they did, the Wardens didn't bother looking for another one.   Food for thought there.

 

The Wardens do know certain herbs that can slow down the onset of the taint in ordinary people and have apparently disseminated that information throughout Thedas.   To date they haven't found anything that will stop it altogether.   The Dalish Keepers are the ones that have come up with the most effective suppressant.   I wonder if the reason that isn't more widely known is because people won't listen to them.    Whilst some Keepers might think it fitting that humans should suffer the taint, I'm sure most would realise that it is in no ones interest to spread the Blight in that way, so I'm sure they must have passed their wisdom on to the Grey Wardens at least.

 

Elves were immortal in that they lived for ever provided nothing else intervened.   They could be killed, which is what I think Fen'Harel means when he says to his followers the Evanuris are as mortal as you or I.   Initially they believed Mythal had been murdered and was lost to them, so that seemed to confirm what he said.   However, even Abelas expressed doubt if you could truly kill a god, so I think both he and Fen'Harel suspected that Mythal wasn't gone for good. which is why Solas didn't simply go for killing the Evanuris in some really nasty way.   Not only did he want them to suffer for eternity for what they did to Mythal but he wasn't sure if death would be permanent. 

 

I think the actual stories that Felassan tells are parables to illustrate a point he is making at a particular time.   As such some elements of them may be true, such as the attitude of the various gods to Fen'Harel or the fact that people would ask him for advice about a problem they were finding difficult to solve, but not the actual details of the events he recounts.     In the story about the two gods fighting over Fen'Harel, when badly wounded they slept to recover and this may have actually been true.

[Solas]

 

source

[Solas]

[Ellawynn]

So, I thought of something... if the story Felassan told to Briala truly depicts how it was during the time of the Evanuris... does this mean that only they were more or less immortal? I thought all elves were immortal? And also, we know that people considered the Evanuris to be gods, but was there a hierarchy below them that consisted or kings and nobles, or was that reserved for themselves only?

 

I'm beginning feel more certain that most of Felassan's stories are completely made up and adapted to suit current times (I know, some will probably think this conclusion obvious, but I've always been a bit undecided as to how much was myth and how much was fact). 

 

I don't know about Felassan's stories, but Solas himself mentions Elvhen nobility when he talks about the vallaslin, so I imagine they did have kings and nobles below the Evanuris.

 

Which was probably for practicality's sake. The Evanuris couldn't have realistically governed everything, down to the smallest township. Like, could you imagine Mythal sitting there, having to hear the case of a farmer who's halla jumped a fence and bred with a neighbor's stock? In between deciding the fate of treasonists and blasphemers? She'd never have time for anything else if she was the only person in the entire empire who was allowed to pass judgement.

 

So you put in little guys to handle the small stuff while you wage wars and revel in your glory. And then the little guys start asking for some sort of recognition - so you give them a nice but meaningless title like "king." Oh, sure, the commoners and slaves probably balk at the word, but you're a god. What do you care? You could turn them all into lawn art with a glance anyway.

[Elessara]

So, I thought of something... if the story Felassan told to Briala truly depicts how it was during the time of the Evanuris... does this mean that only they were more or less immortal? I thought all elves were immortal? And also, we know that people considered the Evanuris to be gods, but was there a hierarchy below them that consisted or kings and nobles, or was that reserved for themselves only?

 

I'm beginning feel more certain that most of Felassan's stories are completely made up and adapted to suit current times (I know, some will probably think this conclusion obvious, but I've always been a bit undecided as to how much was myth and how much was fact). 

 

There is a difference between "immortal" and "ageless" although a lot of people use the word immortal to mean ageless.  Immortality implies that nothing can kill you, not age or disease or a knife in the heart.  Ageless is just that, you don't age.  I would suggest that the ancient elves were ageless rather than immortal.  Obviously they could and did die.  The Evanuris might have been the only ones with effective immortality, for example Mythal.

[Elessara]

I don't remember if there are any higher ranking wardens than the warden commanders. Is there a top position in Weisshaupt? If that's the case then probably he/she is one of the few with the knowledge. Maybe there's even a book like the one Cassandra got from Lucius.

And the Weisshaupt wardens are actually known for being very grim and secretive.

 

The leader of the entire order is called the First Warden, I believe, followed by the High Constable.  But they tend to be more like figureheads with the actual decisions for each country's Wardens being decided by the Warden Commander of that country.  And if I recall correctly there are rumors that the current First Warden is more interested in the politics of the Anderfels than actually running the order.