153434 réponses à ce sujet

[Tamyn]

 

 

Spoiler

In particular, it was extremely out of character for me to watch my Inquisitor simply walk away from Solas after the battle of Corypheus. I would have stayed by his side. 100%. He wouldn't have had a chance to run just yet. It cheapened the ending for me.

 

I hated that so much. It is my main gripe with the whole thing. No way my inquisitor would just turn and walk away wordlessly after he's confessing his heart to her (giving him the chance to disappear). It made me mad. Especially after he claimed "everything will be made clear" after the bad guy is killed! She would be demanding explanations or hugging him in victory or something; to hell with the rest of the party for five minutes!

[RebbyWriter]

My second playthrough is a male human Andrastian. He's a little spoiled but tries to help everyone. So far, he and Solas are getting along very well which surprised me.

 

The only disapproval I got so far is from Vivienne. I swear, if I breathe near the woman she disapproves.

[Eivuwan]

There is one part that I just don't understand...

 

Spoiler

Solas was telling me that Morrigan was untrustworthy, but that the well's power should be taken by someone. So I thought that I should drink the well then (I wanted to anyway). And then he disapproves and told you that he begged you not to drink it. Whatt? I'm guessing they forgot a piece of dialogue somewhere.

[RynJ]

Thats the thing. You get approval from asking him questions. So its tempting to go back to him for his opinions. To listen to his Fade stories. 

 

Its just so easy to fall for him. And im not even tallking romance here. Im saying that theres incentive to create the relationship, even for Inquisitors who dont really care for him all that much.

 

Isnt that the traits of a master manipulator ?

 

I don't really think Solas manipulates the Inquisitor into feeling any particular way about him. He's outright abrasive to Inquisitors that do things he dislikes so it's not like he really cares whether or not you like him. 

[jellobell]

Spoiler

But what did Solas lie about? :/ Lies of omission, sure. He neglected to say that he was Fen'harel (because that would've gone over well, right?). That Cory got the orb from him. And what, specifically, his agenda is.

 

People are acting like he's wearing some sort of false persona in order to manipulate those around him which...isn't true. He never tries to manipulate the Inquisitor. He offers his aid. He presents her with information. He advises, he doesn't direct.

 

The only place that people seem to be getting "manipulative" from are the legends of Fen'harel which have been proven to not be true.

[RynJ]

Spoiler

But what did Solas lie about? :/ Lies of omission, sure. He neglected to say that he was Fen'harel (because that would've gone over well, right?). That Cory got the orb from him. And what, specifically, his agenda is.

 

People are acting like he's wearing some sort of false persona in order to manipulate those around him which...isn't true. He never tries to manipulate the Inquisitor. He offers his aid. He presents her with information. He advises, he doesn't direct.

 

The only place that people seem to be getting "manipulative" from are the legends of Fen'harel which have been proven to not be true.

 

That and he defers to your command on all things. In fact, he doesn't like it when you DON'T take a stand. It's not like he's ever behind you, whispering in your ear about what direction to take the Inquisition. He'll offer his opinion like other companions but that's about it. There was no manipulation whatsoever that I saw. Just a refusal to disclose all about him.

Spoiler

For obvious reasons, since he appears to want to help close the Breach and revealing oneself as the Dread Wolf would do nothing but cause trouble. If anything, he's protecting himself.

[vertigomez]

Spoiler

I sense there's something in the wind
That feels like tragedy's at hand
And though I'd like to stand by him
Can't shake this feeling that I have
The worst is just around the bend

And does he notice my feelings for him?
And will he see how much he means to me?
I think it's not to be

What will become of my dear friend?
Where will his actions lead us then?
Although I'd like to join the crowd
In their enthusiastic cloud
Try as I may, it doesn't last

And will we ever end up together?
No, I think not, it's never to become
For I am not the one

[caridounette]

I respect everyone's differing opinions, but man the "manipulating bastard" name calling is making me feel kind of uncomfortable if I'm going to be honest.
By all means you don't have to like him, but.. idk. :S

 

im sorry if I offended.

 

I was more bringing forward the opinion i often see in the other threads then assuming there this is the entire depth of Solas.

 

I just think we shouldnt shy from discussing it just because the romance is so great. I hope for the best with him, but Solas is a complex character, and being deceiving is part of it.

[RebbyWriter]

All this talk about

Spoiler

Solas leaving

makes me think of this

 

[Tielis]

Thats the thing. You get approval from asking him questions. So its tempting to go back to him for his opinions. To listen to his Fade stories. 

 

Its just so easy to fall for him. And im not even tallking romance here. Im saying that theres incentive to create the relationship, even for Inquisitors who dont really care for him all that much.

 

Isnt that the traits of a master manipulator ?

 

Yep, the dude just oozes charisma.  Which is almost always trouble.  

[Kath]

No need to apologize! I'm not trying to silence anyone who dislikes his romance or anything, because believe me I certainly understand that people are going to feel differently, and I get why.

Just that particular phrasing makes me feel uncomfortable. No idea why D:

 

Oh no worries, I understand. I just didn't want you to feel uncomfortable in the thread we Solas fans are meant to feel at home in.

 

"Manipulator" has tons of negative connotations to it, and given he is a LI that we all care about (hehe) it's understandable that it would make some people feel bad about it.

 

I probably used the wrong wording there. :S

 

I don't mean it in the light that he had negative intentions. His true motives are still a bit of a mystery, but I don't think him not telling the whole truth about himself  was to hurt anyone or to necessarily come out on top of the whole breach scenario. I think he really set out just to fix his own mistakes and tried not to get anyone involved in the mess he made. Unfortunately for him, he is an incredibly interesting person, so he had to deal with people wanting to know more about him haha. 

[jellobell]

That and he defers to your command on all things. In fact, he doesn't like it when you DON'T take a stand. It's not like he's ever behind you, whispering in your ear about what direction to take the Inquisition. He'll offer his opinion like other companions but that's about it. There was no manipulation whatsoever that I saw. Just a refusal to disclose all about him.

Exactly. He's guarded, but he never actually lies to you. One of the main points about his character is that he dislikes falsehood. He's very free with his opinions towards absolutely everybody. It'd probably be in his better interest to be more conciliatory towards Vivienne or Iron Bull or Dorian. But he isn't. He engages with people about spirits and slavery and what it means to remember and understand the past without romanticizing it. He isn't concerned with making people like him at all! He intentionally tries to stay aloof (if you take the middle option in the scene where he gives you his personal quest, the Inquisitor comments on how he's known for not needing anybody). That isn't the mark of a manipulator.

 

The fact that you can pick out all sorts of little truths that make more sense when you know who he is shows just how genuine he was. If he was blatantly lying the whole time then he could've been more convincing.

[Solas]

I'm open to all different interpretations of Solas as a character, the whole point of his character after all are that it's more complicated than that and that everything is shades of gray.

 

My only issue is when people talk in certainties about things we don't have the facts on - there cannot possibly be a happy ending, his agenda is this or that, etc. The simple truth of the matter is that for things like these we just don't know yet.

It's totally different when you frame it like "my opinion is", "I think that" or "what I speculate is".

[Kirie]

Just have to say, even when people have disagreements, the people in this thread are so incredibly respectful to one another. I love it.

[hex0mega]

I hated that so much. It is my main gripe with the whole thing. No way my inquisitor would just turn and walk away wordlessly after he's confessing his heart to her (giving him the chance to disappear). It made me mad. Especially after he claimed "everything will be made clear" after the bad guy is killed! She would be demanding explanations or hugging him in victory or something; to hell with the rest of the party for five minutes!

 

 Exactly. If, after this, he wants to leave in the dark of the night, then fine. But in that one moment, the Inquisitor did have a choice, and I do not like that Bioware chose for me. 

 

There is one part that I just don't understand...

 

Spoiler

Solas was telling me that Morrigan was untrustworthy, but that the well's power should be taken by someone. So I thought that I should drink the well then (I wanted to anyway). And then he disapproves and told you that he begged you not to drink it. Whatt? I'm guessing they forgot a piece of dialogue somewhere.

 

Yeah they really need to fix that.   

 

Spoiler

But what did Solas lie about? :/ Lies of omission, sure. He neglected to say that he was Fen'harel (because that would've gone over well, right?). That Cory got the orb from him. And what, specifically, his agenda is.

 

People are acting like he's wearing some sort of false persona in order to manipulate those around him which...isn't true. He never tries to manipulate the Inquisitor. He offers his aid. He presents her with information. He advises, he doesn't direct.

 

The only place that people seem to be getting "manipulative" from are the legends of Fen'harel which have been proven to not be true.

 

 I don't think manipulation is inherently a bad thing. I just believe that lying via omission is one of the most important skills of master manipulators. There are some things you can't talk (lie) yourself out of, in which the best approach would be to say nothing, and Solas has a deep understanding of that. During conversations in my current playthrough I can't help but notice he deliberately words things to be honest while disguising how he obtained his knowledge of them.  

 

Spoiler

One of the quotes is "some of my fondest memories can be found in ancient ruins" (paraphrasing). He also heavily discusses the fade and will hesitate at times before sourcing his fade adventures as the reasons for his knowledge. It's made clear in the end that his knowledge of ancient Elvhen culture does not stem from the fade, but instead stems from his personal experience with it. Even if he'd seen some of it in the fade, mentioning the fade as a source does count as a more direct lie. 

 

"Oh how did you know all this?" 

"Uh... Fade adventures!" 

 

Reminds me of:

 

All this talk about

Spoiler

Solas leaving

makes me think of this

 

 

I hate you. 

[herkles]

Spoiler

I am playing through my dalish mage playthrouh and speaking to an npc in redcliff solas had something rather telling to say. "sometimes to achieve what we desire, we must take regetable actions" or something to that line. considering later revelations, I find this rather telling. 

[ALIMINATED]

Is anyone else trying to romance Sola's on their second run and just find themselves completely incapable of going through with it? I mean, I just have this awful feeling of "This is going to end so badly".

Also, i've been lurking on the Sola's threads all the way up to the release so yay for unlurking (word?).

[Kath]

On a lighter note, have some Solas crack.

 

[Nyaore]

Spoiler

I am playing through my dalish mage playthrouh and speaking to an npc in redcliff solas had something rather telling to say. "sometimes to achieve what we desire, we must take regetable actions" or something to that line. considering later revelations, I find this rather telling. 

Spoiler

I need to go back and hear that, but yeah Solas has a lot of dialogue that when you go back and hear it makes you go 'HOW DID I NOT NOTICE THIS?'

[RynJ]

Is anyone else trying to romance Sola's on their second run and just find themselves completely incapable of going through with it? I mean, I just have this awful feeling of "This is going to end so badly".

Also, i've been lurking on the Sola's threads all the way up to the release so yay for unlurking (word?).

 

I'm going to have the opposite problem. I can't play any more female elves if I plan on romancing someone else. 

 

And to those who talk about making things obvious, yeah

Spoiler

Solas basically outright tells you that he screwed up in the past and suffers the consequences for it now. He doesn't give you specific details, of course, but I find it amazing how much he seems to want to share with you and others even if he won't tell the real truth. It's like he wants you to know, wants to have someone he can trust with himself since, as he says, it's been so long since he had something like that. Coupled with his fear in the Fade, Solas tugs my heartstrings quite a bit. I can't believe that none of that is genuine or that it's just manipulation. So much of Solas seems so raw despite his guarded nature and I loved the moments where it came through even if he didn't necessarily want it to.

 

Like that conversation before his final romance scene if you answer that you'll try to change the world. His response....it's like he wasn't even trying to hide anymore. He put his insecurities right out into the open where you could see them and seemed to genuinely appreciate your answer if you tell him that it's important to keep trying. Like he needed somebody to tell him that. That conversation really got me!

[Tielis]

Is anyone else trying to romance Sola's on their second run and just find themselves completely incapable of going through with it? I mean, I just have this awful feeling of "This is going to end so badly".

Also, i've been lurking on the Sola's threads all the way up to the release so yay for unlurking (word?).

 

Well, I did only get to "the scene" and afterwards noped on out of that playthrough.

[RebbyWriter]

On the topic of Solas' flaws, I thought I would bring up an older quote. This was an old post in this thread written by  Matt Rhodes who I believe was the lead artist on the game.

For those who are interested, we have been very calculated when it comes to engineering our characters imperfections. The development process has a built in erosion mechanism: many stakeholders in many review meetings tend to trim away a characters humanizing flaws and oddities, leaving little more than "pretty" and "safe" . Strip and shave most game characters today and you'd be hard pressed to tell most of them apart. We've worked very hard on Inquisition to safeguard our characters from this erosion process. We want to give them more identity than just their clothes, hairstyle and makeup. It's our hope that after you've spent some time with them, our character's will be as inseparable from their quirks, flaws and oddities as your own friends and family are from theirs.

 

Spoiler

Being that this was put in the Solas thread, they are aware that Solas has "quirks" and aspects of character that are not things you necessarily want others to see. I am a writer and I am always striving for realism in my tales. The fact that this kind of discussion about Solas being a "liar" or "manipulative" is honestly amazing! We aren't just looking at him through one vision but many facets like a gem. Yes, he is a liar (omitting truths and playing dumb are still lies) and sometimes he has a bit of a temper and holds people to certain standards but those are just a few things about him. Also, a lot of this does come from a place of life experience or a negative that balances out a positive (ex. He doesn't tell them that he was the one who gave Cory the artifact because..well, can you imagine the reaction? People already think he is known to deceive by reputation. He just wants to right his wrongs and is afraid of hurting more people by getting them all caught up in it (refer to romance)

 

Now, I don't think many will agree with me, but that's why I like him; He is complex, intriguing but not perfect. That's all I wanted to say about it. Now, lets help each other cope with this. lol

[Mims]

Spoiler

We can only judge a character by how they appear to us.

 

I don't doubt that Solas was a trickster in his 'youth'. He might have even been a monster, if we go towards the darker read of the elven gods. But what we have at this moment doesn't seem to be a villain in the traditional sense. Or even a manipulator. A manipulator character tends to be in control of the situation. They tend to have a plan, and the means to carry out it. 

 

Solas does not seem to me a character who is in control. In fact, he comes across as the exact opposite. He is desperately trying to get the reign on things so that he can accomplish whatever his task is. He can't even stop himself from falling in love with Lavellan, who is also a threat to his eventual planning. 

 

I've said before, but I think the character with the most insight on Solas is Cole. I trust Cole's feelings. I don't think his conversations would play out as they do if Solas was an evil character. 

 

The danger is that Solas may continue to break things trying to fix them. And eventually, he might break them so far that he becomes unredeemable. 

 

[zambixi]

Exactly. He's guarded, but he never actually lies to you. One of the main points about his character is that he dislikes falsehood. He's very free with his opinions towards absolutely everybody. It'd probably be in his better interest to be more conciliatory towards Vivienne or Iron Bull or Dorian. But he isn't. He engages with people about spirits and slavery and what it means to remember and understand the past without romanticizing it. He isn't concerned with making people like him at all! He intentionally tries to stay aloof (if you take the middle option in the scene where he gives you his personal quest, the Inquisitor comments on how he's known for not needing anybody). That isn't the mark of a manipulator.

 

The fact that you can pick out all sorts of little truths that make more sense when you know who he is shows just how genuine he was. If he was blatantly lying the whole time then he could've been more convincing.

 

Spoiler

I get the feeling that when he lies, it's out of what he views as necessity. I think he hints at having told the first Dalish he meets of his true nature (or at least hints at telling him more than he tells the Inquisition), but they chased him away and scorned him. He lies, but I think he does so carefully and only to whatever extent he believes is needed for his goals. As opposed to Flemeth/Mythal, who seems to omit truth and twist words to deliberately hide as much information as possible so that she can use it to her advantage. As long as he's dealing with people he cares about, he runs more along the lines of a "good" guy than a master manipulator.

 

I do really dislike his way of breaking up with the Inquisitor though. I think he could have kept his agency as a character while still giving some semblance of choice. E.g. for Morrigan's romance, she leaves no matter what the Warden does. But the player gets to chose when (before/after the battle), and she tells him/her up front what her plans are. I wish Solas could have said, "There's something I have to do. I must do it alone, so we have to break up I'm sorry," instead of making it out to be like he was doing something for her so her wouldn't distract her. It's a bit of a cop-out.

 

I guess that's good characterization though! It's frustrating but I'm glad I can be mad at him for something and still have overall good feelings about the character.

[caridounette]

Spoiler

But what did Solas lie about? :/ Lies of omission, sure. He neglected to say that he was Fen'harel (because that would've gone over well, right?). That Cory got the orb from him. And what, specifically, his agenda is.

 

People are acting like he's wearing some sort of false persona in order to manipulate those around him which...isn't true. He never tries to manipulate the Inquisitor. He offers his aid. He presents her with information. He advises, he doesn't direct.

 

The only place that people seem to be getting "manipulative" from are the legends of Fen'harel which have been proven to not be true.

 

Spoiler

 

Maybe youre right. Would deceiving be a better term? Im not a natural english speaker. 

 

He is not trying to control your choices, but he lies a lot.

 

Like saying he misses Court intrigue and when you ask him how he would ever have been there before he gets avasive about seeing it in the fade (you even get disapproval for asking), saying that he will tell you the Truth in the last cutscene and evading it, saying that he will explain and running away...

 

He is letting Lavellan choose if she wants to persue him but he knows she is doing so without all the informations to make a sane decision.  

 

Dont get me wrong I really like his character. Flaws and all. Hes just a tragic figure, afraid to die alone.

 

 

Maybe he initially doesnt want to explain because he thinks the Inquisitor cant understand the truth. Theres enough with the Herald of Andraste stuff to wrap your mind around, hes not gonna spring 'elven god' on you. 

 

So he lies to protect you. And then to cover that.