153434 réponses à ce sujet

[Tielis]

Spoiler

We can only judge a character by how they appear to us.

 

I don't doubt that Solas was a trickster in his 'youth'. He might have even been a monster, if we go towards the darker read of the elven gods. But what we have at this moment doesn't seem to be a villain in the traditional sense. Or even a manipulator. A manipulator character tends to be in control of the situation. They tend to have a plan, and the means to carry out it. 

 

Solas does not seem to me a character who is in control. In fact, he comes across as the exact opposite. He is desperately trying to get the reign on things so that he can accomplish whatever his task is. He can't even stop himself from falling in love with Lavellan, who is also a threat to his eventual planning. 

 

I've said before, but I think the character with the most insight on Solas is Cole. I trust Cole's feelings. I don't think his conversations would play out as they do if Solas was an evil character. 

 

The danger is that Solas may continue to break things trying to fix them. And eventually, he might break them so far that he becomes unredeemable. 

 

 

So you're saying he's reckless?  I just think that's his cover to an extent, because he is highly intelligent and a logical thinker.  Another flaw is that he believes he is right, no matter what the cost, especially the emotional cost.

[Mims]

So you're saying he's reckless?  I just think that's his cover to an extent, because he is highly intelligent and a logical thinker.  Another flaw is that he believes he is right, no matter what the cost, especially the emotional cost.

 

Spoiler

Being reckless can't be his cover though, as the Inquisitor knows nothing about what I just said. If anything, appearing logical and highly intelligent is the cover. 'Let me appear to look like I am in control, so that no one realizes how badly I have botched everything.' 

 

He talks a lot about mistakes he's made, even admitting to have thought he once knew better than everyone else. To me, that does not mark a character who thinks he is always right. 

 

Mind you, I am not saying he is a saint. I think he is absolutely dangerous. But I just don't agree that he is so deliberate. 

[RynJ]

So you're saying he's reckless?  I just think that's his cover to an extent, because he is highly intelligent and a logical thinker.  Another flaw is that he believes he is right, no matter what the cost, especially the emotional cost.

 

Solas has many flaws. He's undoubtedly arrogant and sometimes he can come off as pretty closed-minded himself despite valuing free thought and open-mindedness so much. And I would call him reckless in a way. He certainly was in the past and even starting a romance with the Inquisitor when he knows how it will eventually go is pretty reckless. A big and very human failing, all things about him considered.

 

Ahh he's so complex. I knew I would like him, of course, but not as much as I ended up actually liking him in game!

[TheComfyCat]

Yet he clearly hated Alexius / Cory's future where the veil was down

In that future, is the veil completely gone? But anyway, spirits were being twisted into demons, so of course that was not what Solas wanted. That future was not like world he described at all, where spirits would move freely through the world and the fade would be like a state of nature.

[zambixi]

Spoiler

 

Maybe youre right. Would deceiving be a better term? Im not a natural english speaker. 

 

He is not trying to control your choices, but he lies a lot.

 

Like saying he misses Court intrigue and when you ask him how he would ever have been there before he gets avasive about seeing it in the fade (you even get disapproval for asking), saying that he will tell you the Truth in the last cutscene and evading it, saying that he will explain and running away...

 

He is letting Lavellan choose if she wants to persue him but he knows she is doing so without all the informations to make a sane decision.  

 

Dont get me wrong I really like his character. Flaws and all. Hes just a tragic figure, afraid to die alone.

 

 

Maybe he initially doesnt want to explain because he thinks the Inquisitor cant understand the truth. Theres enough with the Herald of Andraste stuff to wrap your mind around, hes not gonna spring 'elven god' on you. 

 

So he lies to protect you. And then to cover that.

 

 

Deceptive is less active. Manipulative implies that he was trying to push the Inquisitor in a certain way.

 

Spoiler

I'd say that showing Quizzie Skyhold would be manipulative, but it's benign manipulation because it mostly benefits her (while also serving his desire to close the fade rifts). Omission is deceptive, but not necessarily manipulative if he's not trying to get a specific action out of her. I'd never thought that he might genuinely be concerned about overloading Quizzie with all of the new information. That's actually a nice thought. I didn't give him as much credit and assumed he doesn't tell her because he is afraid of the reaction he would get

 

 

So you're saying he's reckless?  I just think that's his cover to an extent, because he is highly intelligent and a logical thinker.  Another flaw is that he believes he is right, no matter what the cost, especially the emotional cost.

 

Spoiler

Well...Solas = pride. His biggest flaw is definitely his pride IMO. I don't agree that he feigns recklessness to manipulate people, except perhaps in the final scene with Mythal (depending on what's going on there). I think he has too much pride to pretend to be reckless or stupid, otherwise he wouldn't go with the wise-fade-walking-guru persona he's adopted. If he wanted to come off as incapable of planning, he'd have to feed the information to someone else (my bet would be Morrigan, but he clearly is not doing that) and feign ignorance more often then he does. The way he is now I have a hard time believing that his mistakes are contrived and not genuine

[Tamyn]

I'm going to have the opposite problem. I can't play any more female elves if I plan on romancing someone else. 

 

And to those who talk about making things obvious, yeah

Spoiler

Solas basically outright tells you that he screwed up in the past and suffers the consequences for it now. He doesn't give you specific details, of course, but I find it amazing how much he seems to want to share with you and others even if he won't tell the real truth. It's like he wants you to know, wants to have someone he can trust with himself since, as he says, it's been so long since he had something like that. Coupled with his fear in the Fade, Solas tugs my heartstrings quite a bit. I can't believe that none of that is genuine or that it's just manipulation. So much of Solas seems so raw despite his guarded nature and I loved the moments where it came through even if he didn't necessarily want it to.

 

Like that conversation before his final romance scene if you answer that you'll try to change the world. His response....it's like he wasn't even trying to hide anymore. He put his insecurities right out into the open where you could see them and seemed to genuinely appreciate your answer if you tell him that it's important to keep trying. Like he needed somebody to tell him that. That conversation really got me!

 

And if you talk to him about the relationship after

Spoiler

he dumps you, the middle response has you saying that he still hides behind a mask of politeness. He says that you've seen more of the real him than most people. It's quite sad, and obvious that he wanted to share himself with you but he felt conflicted.

[chibielf]

I wonder why he's the only one you can't kiss whenever you want during the relationship. I was hoping it was a glitch. I understand everything else. But, would of been nice

[RynJ]

And if you talk to him about the relationship after

Spoiler

he dumps you, the middle response has you saying that he still hides behind a mask of politeness. He says that you've seen more of the real him than most people. It's quite sad, but obvious that he wanted to share with you but he felt conflicted.

 

Every single response he has to your questions in that last conversation hub gets to me. The one where you get angry at him, especially. He has no issue at all with you being angry at him.

[Eivuwan]

In that future, is the veil completely gone? But anyway, spirits were being twisted into demons, so of course that was not what Solas wanted. That future was not like world he described at all, where spirits would move freely through the world and the fade would be like a state of nature.

 

I can see the theme for the next dragon age... You get to choose between synthesis (merging fade with the world), destroy (destroying the fade), and control (you become God).

[Tielis]

And if you talk to him about the relationship after

Spoiler

he dumps you, the middle response has you saying that he still hides behind a mask of politeness. He says that you've seen more of the real him than most people. It's quite sad, and obvious that he wanted to share himself with you but he felt conflicted.

 

Agreed, a toxic wounded animal that can do nothing but continue on his path of pain.  Ugh... as I said, I know the type so well.  It makes me wonder if Mr. Weekes has experienced a relationship like this because he got it down so well.

[TheComfyCat]

I cannot trigger the rest of Solas' quests. I don't really know how high or low my approval is with him. I triggered that first quest with the spirit. He got mad at me in the end,but eh. I'm already past Here Lies The Abyss and have yet to trigger any further personal quests. I'm a male inquisitor btw, so I'm not romancing him. I'd still, however, like to see more of his content. :/

Unfortunately, Solas does not seem to have as much content as some of the other characters (like Cassandra). Other than his personal quest about the spirit, there's the quest where you activate the elven artifacts. And once you activate those, it's supposed to trigger a follow up quest, but it sounds like that may be bugged, since I haven't heard of anyone getting the follow up quest (but someone please correct me if they've actually gotten that quest!).

[Solas]

Anyone else noticed that the shards in the collect the shards in [location] quest, there's one on Solas' desk in the rotunda. simple Scholarly interest or is he interested in them for a specific reason? It motivated me to collect all the shards lol.

[Tamyn]

I haven't gotten that supposed third quest and I can't find anything about it online but the name.

 

Anyone else noticed that the shards in the collect the shards in [location] quest, there's one on Solas' desk in the rotunda. Scholarly interest or is he interested in them? It motivated me to collect all the shards lol.

 

Haha, I want to steal it when he's not looking to help me open one of those temple doors.

[zambixi]

In that future, is the veil completely gone? But anyway, spirits were being twisted into demons, so of course that was not what Solas wanted. That future was not like world he described at all, where spirits would move freely through the world and the fade would be like a state of nature.

 

Spoiler

The castle was in the Fade, if I remember correctly. Whether that means the Veil was sundered, or just means the castle was transported...who knows? I wonder if Solas has considered what happens if one "can't go home again," so to speak. Maybe he knows and it's not his intention to remove the Veil (yet)?

 

As annoying as Sera can be otherwise, she said something that really struck me when you pick up a specialization: that the Inquisitor "shouldn't be scarey". It's hard as a player to imagine how scarey mages must be to normal people, but what if you were a normal guy and your neighbor could summon a host of demons to terrorize you whenever they had a bad day. It must be terrifying. Even benign spirits are probably scarey. Removing the Veil wouldn't be a good thing for those types of people - it would be horrible. I don't think Solas is really aware of/understands that, because to him the mundane part of the world is a bit wrong. It might benefit "the People" - whoever they are - but it's going to mess up almost everyone else. I wonder what his justification is for that

[Mims]

Agreed, a toxic wounded animal that can do nothing but continue on his path of pain.  Ugh... as I said, I know the type so well.  It makes me wonder if Mr. Weekes has experienced a relationship like this because he got it down so well.

 

I...it feels as though you might be projecting a lot onto this character from outside experiences? You are certainly not required to like him. 

[hex0mega]

Current Solas song on my end:

 

Spoiler

 

 

A dream is a wish your heart makes

when you're fast asleep

In dreams you will lose your heartache

whatever you wish for you keep

 

Have faith in your dreams and someday

your rainbow will come smiling through

No matter how your heart is grieving

if you keep on believing 

a dream that you wish

will come true.

 

On the topic of Solas' flaws, I thought I would bring up an older quote. This was an old post in this thread written by  Matt Rhodes who I believe was the lead artist on the game.

 

Spoiler

Being that this was put in the Solas thread, they are aware that Solas has "quirks" and aspects of character that are not things you necessarily want others to see. I am a writer and I am always striving for realism in my tales. The fact that this kind of discussion about Solas being a "liar" or "manipulative" is honestly amazing! We aren't just looking at him through one vision but many facets like a gem. Yes, he is a liar (omitting truths and playing dumb are still lies) and sometimes he has a bit of a temper and holds people to certain standards but those are just a few things about him. Also, a lot of this does come from a place of life experience or a negative that balances out a positive (ex. He doesn't tell them that he was the one who gave Cory the artifact because..well, can you imagine the reaction? People already think he is known to deceive by reputation. He just wants to right his wrongs and is afraid of hurting more people by getting them all caught up in it (refer to romance)

 

Now, I don't think many will agree with me, but that's why I like him; He is complex, intriguing but not perfect. That's all I wanted to say about it. Now, lets help each other cope with this. lol

 

 

Spoiler

We can only judge a character by how they appear to us.

 

I don't doubt that Solas was a trickster in his 'youth'. He might have even been a monster, if we go towards the darker read of the elven gods. But what we have at this moment doesn't seem to be a villain in the traditional sense. Or even a manipulator. A manipulator character tends to be in control of the situation. They tend to have a plan, and the means to carry out it. 

 

Solas does not seem to me a character who is in control. In fact, he comes across as the exact opposite. He is desperately trying to get the reign on things so that he can accomplish whatever his task is. He can't even stop himself from falling in love with Lavellan, who is also a threat to his eventual planning. 

 

I've said before, but I think the character with the most insight on Solas is Cole. I trust Cole's feelings. I don't think his conversations would play out as they do if Solas was an evil character. 

 

The danger is that Solas may continue to break things trying to fix them. And eventually, he might break them so far that he becomes unredeemable. 

 

 

Both of these were accurately and beautifully put. 

[Tielis]

Spoiler

The castle was in the Fade, if I remember correctly. Whether that means the Veil was sundered, or just means the castle was transported...who knows? I wonder if Solas has considered what happens if one "can't go home again," so to speak. Maybe he knows and it's not his intention to remove the Veil (yet)?

 

As annoying as Sera can be otherwise, she said something that really struck me when you pick up a specialization: that the Inquisitor "shouldn't be scarey". It's hard as a player to imagine how scarey mages must be to normal people, but what if you were a normal guy and your neighbor could summon a host of demons to terrorize you whenever they had a bad day. It must be terrifying. Even benign spirits are probably scarey. Removing the Veil wouldn't be a good thing for those types of people - it would be horrible. I don't think Solas is really aware of/understands that, because to him the mundane part of the world is a bit wrong. It might benefit "the People" - whoever they are - but it's going to mess up almost everyone else. I wonder what his justification is for that

 

There's the lack of considering the emotional cost thing again...

[Tielis]

I...it feels as though you might be projecting a lot onto this character from outside experiences? You are certainly not required to like him. 

 

Um... I do like him.  I understand him, but I feel that he is a terrible romance option for anyone because of his issues.  I pity him, but I cannot excuse his actions just because he's so wounded.

[Solas]

A terrible romance option for any real person to be sure, but as a love interest for a fictional character in an epic dark fantasy story - yeahhhhh 

[RynJ]

Um... I do like him.  I understand him, but I feel that he is a terrible romance option for anyone because of his issues.  I pity him, but I cannot excuse his actions just because he's so wounded.

 

He seems to agree that he's a terrible romance option. Which is why he walks away before you both get in too deep. That's the part where I can't find him toxic.

[zambixi]

Unfortunately, Solas does not seem to have as much content as some of the other characters (like Cassandra). Other than his personal quest about the spirit, there's the quest where you activate the elven artifacts. And once you activate those, it's supposed to trigger a follow up quest, but it sounds like that may be bugged, since I haven't heard of anyone getting the follow up quest (but someone please correct me if they've actually gotten that quest!).

 

Have not gotten the quest but it's a war table mission so is it possible that you may have missed it....? Here's what my guide says:

 

Spoiler

Should you find at least 10 of the devices, you can unlock a war table operation: Measure Veil Strength. Complete the operation, and you'll hear word from Solas about the location of a Fade rift that has yet to open. Go to the designated location in the Hinterlands behind the Redcliffe Farms, and prepare for a fight to seal the rift.

 

If you still think it is not coming up, be sure to log an issue with EA Answer HQ so that it can be fixed!

[jellobell]

Just that particular phrasing makes me feel uncomfortable. No idea why D:

No, I know where you're coming from.

 

Really, I'm constantly wondering if I'm just seeing him through rose-coloured glasses and I'm trying to think through all of the possibilities. One of my favourite things to do with Bioware games is analyze characters and see where they're coming from. I can't hate Sera because I understand her. I don't necessarily like everything about her, but she is a consistent (if frustrating) character. They're all of them very well-realized and fun to talk about, even the ones I wouldn't want to go have a beer with.

 

I don't think manipulation is inherently a bad thing. I just believe that lying via omission is one of the most important skills of master manipulators. There are some things you can't talk (lie) yourself out of, in which the best approach would be to say nothing, and Solas has a deep understanding of that. During conversations in my current playthrough I can't help but notice he deliberately words things to be honest while disguising how he obtained his knowledge of them.

Neither do I! Josie is deliciously manipulative, and she's one of the sweetest people in the game.

 

However...I just don't think that "manipulative" is a proper descriptor for Solas. It doesn't fit him at all. You can manipulate someone by obscuring the truth, but his lies of omission aren't done to guide you into doing anything in particular. The great thing about going back and listening to all of his dialogue is realizing just how much he actually told you. And the reason he ended up telling you as much as he did was that you just kept asking him questions! I don't think he could help himself from gratifying the Inquisitor's curiosity. I mean, seriously, that first conversation about the Fade? The one where he talks about how awesome things would be without the veil? That set off alarm bells for everyone. And you can just tell when he realizes he's said too much. "For...better or worse" *sweats*.

 

And agreed, I don't think he's nearly as in control as he presents himself as being. In the stinger he looks...broken.

 

 

Spoiler

Well...Solas = pride. His biggest flaw is definitely his pride IMO. I don't agree that he feigns recklessness to manipulate people, except perhaps in the final scene with Mythal (depending on what's going on there). I think he has too much pride to pretend to be reckless or stupid, otherwise he wouldn't go with the wise-fade-walking-guru persona he's adopted. If he wanted to come off as incapable of planning, he'd have to feed the information to someone else (my bet would be Morrigan, but he clearly is not doing that) and feign ignorance more often then he does. The way he is now I have a hard time believing that his mistakes are contrived and not genuine

Yep. I think his pride is probably his biggest flaw. He's too proud to accept the Inquisitor's, or anyone's, help. He messed up and he's going to fix it. He feels like he got himself into whatever it is that he got himself into and now he has to face the consequences. Which is understandable, sad, and frustrating.

[Tielis]

A terrible romance option for any real person to be sure, but as a love interest for a fictional character in an epic dark fantasy story - yeahhhhh 

 

Agreed, and some of us like that and some of us don't.  

 

As I said before, my main problem with the romance is that there was no choice involved, no way to even try to get around it, you were just dumped like a hot brick and that was it -- no talking, no nothing, and no choices you made made any difference.

 

As someone else said, he wasn't emotionally mature enough to come to the Inquisitor and tell her that he was on a personal journey and that she needed to trust him and... well, you know, have a conversation that people who love each other have when there's a crisis in their lives.  Hopefully we'll get this in a DLC.

[Mims]

He seems to agree that he's a terrible romance option. Which is why he walks away before you both get in too deep. That's the part where I can't find him toxic.

 

If you want to speculate further- technically, it would be in Solas's best interests to keep the Inquisitor around. She has his orb, so to speak.

 

But instead he puts distance between them.