153433 réponses à ce sujet

[Birdy]

Huh, for the Dalish being somewhat backwater and resistant to change, they do have a bit "modern" views on mages.  The leaders of the clans are mages.  Of course it's the whole clan that watches the mages for corruption.

[jellobell]

Huh, for the Dalish being somewhat backwater and resistant to change, they do have a bit "modern" views on mages.  The leaders of the clans are mages.  Of course it's the whole clan that watches the mages for corruption.

Yeah, and I get the feeling that the Keepers, while respected, stand a bit apart from the rest of the clan. That's the sense I got from Merrill anyways.

 

And what some clans do to their "extra" mages is pretty awful, at least according to the elven former circle mage in haven.

[Nyaore]

 

Now I want Solas to be at the big clan meeting. Just to watch him wince whenever one of the more angry attendees yells "Dread Wolf take the lot of you!"

 

Spoiler

*Lavellan looks at him, a twinkle in her eye*

 

"Not even a little tempted?"

 

"No."

Oh please, please, please, let someone actually write something like this. I have a mighty need. xD

[Nyaore]

Yeah, and I get the feeling that the Keepers, while respected, stand a bit apart from the rest of the clan. That's the sense I got from Merrill anyways.

 

And what some clans do to their "extra" mages is pretty awful, at least according to the elven former circle mage in haven.

Mhm, though I get the feeling there are clans out there who keep all the extra mages they have regardless of the risk. Though, there's probably also a few without Keepers, given how far apart all of them have drifted.

[jellobell]

Oh please, please, please, let someone actually write something like this. I have a mighty need. xD

Solas is gonna drive me to fanfic, I swear to god.    And I haven't written any in forever.

[arelenriel]

The Chantry does target the Dalish, it may be cruel but while the Chantry may be willing to ignore two mages per clan (one Keeper, and one First) they would probably seek to eliminate any clan that had much more than that.It is a matter of sacrificing a minority so the majority can survive just as some aboriginal tribes would abandon elders and the disabled during times of natural disaster or famine. If you play DAO and resolved the Dalish treaty in favor of the elves  you know that humans have little problem with eliminating entire Dalish clans. The clan would rather abandon those extra mages if other clans didn't need them than see their entire population murdered by religious zealots.

[jellobell]

Well now that my spymaster is head of the chantry and mages aren't confined to circles, some things are definitely gonna change. 

[NeverlandHunter]

Huh, for the Dalish being somewhat backwater and resistant to change, they do have a bit "modern" views on mages.  The leaders of the clans are mages.  Of course it's the whole clan that watches the mages for corruption.

Yeah, and I get the feeling that the Keepers, while respected, stand a bit apart from the rest of the clan. That's the sense I got from Merrill anyways.
 
And what some clans do to their "extra" mages is pretty awful, at least according to the elven former circle mage in haven.

That was one clan. The problem with everyone's perception of the Dalish (including Solas) is they get grouped together. I know it is by choice they call themselves the Dalish, but they really aren't any more interconnected then all Orlesian citizens are. They are a people that follow similar customs and traditions but all the clans seem very different, especially cross countries. Zevran said Dalish in Antiva are more violent. There's clans that will hunt humans for sport and throw out unwanted mage children. But there's also clans like Lavellan's that are willing to interact with humans, or Mahariel's that had a lot of respect for a human Grey Warden.

[Nyaore]

Solas is gonna drive me to fanfic, I swear to god.    And I haven't written any in forever.

*sparkly eyes, egging you on* 

[ACD101]

I wonder if you'll meet your Warden in the DLC, just a thought xD

[NeverlandHunter]

The Chantry does target the Dalish, it may be cruel but while the Chantry may be willing to ignore two mages per clan (one Keeper, and one First) they would probably seek to eliminate any clan that had much more than that.It is a matter of sacrificing a minority so the majority can survive just as some aboriginal tribes would abandon elders and the disabled during times of natural disaster or famine. If you play DAO and resolved the Dalish treaty in favor of the elves you know that humans have little problem with eliminating entire Dalish clans. The clan would rather abandon those extra mages if other clans didn't need them than see their entire population murdered by religious zealots.

There is no morally sound excuse for what Minaeve's clan did to her. The Dalish motto is something about not submitting. Isn't that exactly what they're doing if they choose to abandon elven children for fear of the Chantry? What they did was wrong and it's what gives the Dalish a bad name.

Side note: Dalish keep up to three mages

[Patchwork]

Dalish mages probably are a bit isolated because their training would be vastly different from everyone else's but in Merrill's case I think personality wise she's not a good fit for someone who's role is to be centre stage. The Keeper is the clan's ringleader making sure everything is working together as it should and interfering when its not and that's not Merrill. 

 

This new bit of lore about the limit on mages in clans feels a little like a retcon. The impression I got in DAO was that mages were highly valued but also becoming rare. But anyway templars aside training a mage is probably resource intensive especially if a Keeper is training one up with the view they could be the next First either to their clan or another so they need to be taught everything a Keeper needs to know. 

[Nyaore]

Dalish mages probably are a bit isolated because their training would be vastly different from everyone else's but in Merrill's case I think personality wise she's not a good fit for someone who's role is to be centre stage. The Keeper is the clan's ringleader making sure everything is working together as it should and interfering when its not and that's not Merrill. 

 

This new bit of lore about the limit on mages in clans feels a little like a retcon. The impression I got in DAO was that mages were highly valued but also becoming rare. But anyway templars aside training a mage is probably resource intensive especially if a Keeper is training one up with the view they could be the next First either to their clan or another so they need to be taught everything a Keeper needs to know. 

Again, I took it as what Minaeve's clan held as their own values, unless you actually poll all the Dalish I can't truly see any way to get an accurate representation of how all of them act. Her clan did it one way, others do it another. At least, I'm hoping that case to avoid the retcon you mentioned.

[arelenriel]

Didn't say the practice was morally sound but probably viewed as necesary to keep the majority of the clan alive. But in that whole scenario  the Chantry decision to target clans based on the fact that they have a noticeable number of mages is also not particularly morally sound either. Thedas is full of moral ambiguities like that and therefore it is fairly realistic, The world is not morally black and white. I am old enough to know that it mostly operates in shades of grey. There is not an excuse for it but desperate and frightened people do cruel and evil things to each other.

[SamanthaJ]

Again, I took it as what Minaeve's clan held as their own values, unless you actually poll all the Dalish I can't truly see any way to get an accurate representation of how all of them act. Her clan did it one way, others do it another. At least, I'm hoping that case to avoid the retcon you mentioned.

There's also the conversation with Vivienne, though, where you can even say "at least they died free" and the Dalish mage who is a member of Iron Bull's Chargers.

[NeverlandHunter]

Didn't say the practice was morally sound but probably viewed as necesary to keep the majority of the clan alive. But in that whole scenario  the Chantry decision to target clans based on the fact that they have a noticeable number of mages is also not particularly morally sound either. Thedas is full of moral ambiguities like that and therefore it is fairly realistic, The world is not morally black and white. I am old enough to know that it mostly operates in shades of grey. There is not an excuse for it but desperate and frightened people do cruel and evil things to each other.

I'm not saying that Thedas should be a land filled with unicorns and rainbows (although unicorns are awesome) it just sounded like you were defending the actions of the Dalish. Which I say are wrong. It might be more difficult to hold more than three mages while your looking for a clan to take your extra, but surely not impossible? And I will make the assumption that the other two mages (not counting the Keeper) weren't little children. It couldn't have been an adult that left the clan to find another one or there own way?

[SamanthaJ]

[arelenriel]

Believe me I don't think it is right either- just one possible explanation for why it happened.

[LobselVith8]

Yeah, and I get the feeling that the Keepers, while respected, stand a bit apart from the rest of the clan. That's the sense I got from Merrill anyways.

 

And what some clans do to their "extra" mages is pretty awful, at least according to the elven former circle mage in haven.

 

It varies, depending on the clan. Zathrian's clan accepted an extra mage with Aneirin (since they had Zathrian, Lanaya, and Elora). Merrill's clan of birth, Clan Alerion, and Clan Lavellan, allow extra mages to live among them until they find them homes with other clans who need mages. It seems the treatment of additional mages varies from clan to clan. It likely has to do with what Merrill mentioned before, about the templars pursing the mages within the Dalish, since she states this is why the clans are nomadic and why they avoid keeping in touch with one another until the Arlathvenn.

 

Spoiler

I suspect this would no longer be an issue if the Inquisitor supported mage autonomy, given the potential dissolution of the Circles of Magi and the Templar Order. I'm certain there would also be positive ramifications for Clan Lavellan becoming one of the leaders of the city-state of Wycome.

[Dermain]

Again, I took it as what Minaeve's clan held as their own values, unless you actually poll all the Dalish I can't truly see any way to get an accurate representation of how all of them act. Her clan did it one way, others do it another. At least, I'm hoping that case to avoid the retcon you mentioned.

 

Well Vivienne does quiz your (Dalish) Inquisitor about it if you mention what the Lavellan clan did with extra mages, but I don't recall the response at the moment.

 

Moving back to Solas...

 

Does anyone else think that the I Am The One (yes, I know it was the end credit song of Origins as well) tavern song could also apply to Solas?

 

 

Lyrics:

Spoiler

I feel sun

Through the ashes in the sky.

Where’s the one
Who’ll guide us into the night.

What’s begun
Is the war that will force this divide.

What’s to come
Is fire and the end of time.

I am the one
Who can recount
What we’ve lost.

I am the one
Who will live on.

I have run
Through the fields
Of pain and sighs.

I have fought
To see the other side.

I am the one
Who can recount
What we’ve lost.

I am the one
Who will live on.

[HurricaneGinger]

I'm watching my romance scenes with Solas before I go to bed and I've come to a conclusion: I need Solas to read me bedtime stories, his voice is so calming. XD

 

As for what the Dalish do when there are too many mages: I understand the...necessity, but I don't agree with it. I hated hearing that my researcher was a Dalish before she was cast out of her clan, with nothing but a pack of food and "good luck". That's cruel to me...to be thrown out of your clan, your family, because they don't want to risk it. Not couldn't, but wouldn't. Gah. Sad thoughts. Going back to the romance scenes. Night, y'all.

 

 

 

Well Vivienne does quiz your (Dalish) Inquisitor about it if you mention what the Lavellan clan did with extra mages, but I don't recall the response at the moment.

 

Moving back to Solas...

 

Does anyone else think that the I Am The One (yes, I know it was the end credit song of Origins as well) tavern song could also apply to Solas?

 

 

Lyrics:

Spoiler

I feel sun

Through the ashes in the sky.

Where’s the one
Who’ll guide us into the night.

What’s begun
Is the war that will force this divide.

What’s to come
Is fire and the end of time.

I am the one
Who can recount
What we’ve lost.

I am the one
Who will live on.

I have run
Through the fields
Of pain and sighs.

I have fought
To see the other side.

I am the one
Who can recount
What we’ve lost.

I am the one
Who will live on.

 

OMG STAHP I'M NOT CRYING YOU'RE CRYING *runs away*

[LobselVith8]

Again, I took it as what Minaeve's clan held as their own values, unless you actually poll all the Dalish I can't truly see any way to get an accurate representation of how all of them act. Her clan did it one way, others do it another. At least, I'm hoping that case to avoid the retcon you mentioned.

 

Merrill's codex would suggest many clans adopt the same practice as Clan Alerion and Clan Lavellan: "As each generation passes, magic becomes more rare among the Dalish. As the gift dies out, talented children are moved between clans so that every Keeper has a successor, and no clan is in danger of being left without guidance."

[jellobell]

Does anyone else think that the I Am The One (yes, I know it was the end credit song of Origins as well) tavern song could also apply to Solas?

It really does seem to fit. I still like the elvish version better.

 

[Kulyok]

"I am the One" is absolutely about Solas! Was my first thought when I first heard it in the tavern. Though I love the elven variant from DAO - Tolkienish "heruamin", my lord, sounds very appropriate here.

 

Tavern songs are amazing, btw. But I keep thinking of "The Dawn Will Come" as Solas' song, too, because of the Skyhold's first scene. And, of course, there's the romance theme. And the soundtrack I'm partial to David Knopfler's "I Remember It All", myself.

[drake2511]

If he wants to right his wrongs, he could

Spoiler

create a new clan with Quizzy Lavellan, restoring what was lost. That would be my perfect happy ending lol

EDIT: Happy 1000 page everyone! *hugs*