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Solas Thread - The Blanketfort


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#48201
Sifr

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I made an Elven Pantheon chart because I can't think in paragraphs when things get too complex, I need to break them down into colors and connections in a more abstract way. Maybe this will help you guys! I've also included a couple notes in gray about things that are unclear/ speculation.

 

dz0icyS.png

Here's the elven fresco I referenced with Dirthamen:

Spoiler


EDIT: right click open image in new tab should make the chart big enough for you to read it! Apologies about my handwriting in advance.

EDIT EDIT: Yes, I am shamelessly tracking the owl in this chart. I swear it's important.

 

Just to weigh in on this chart... would the Forgotten Ones be a better fit for the Titans than the Dwarves?

 

Unless the myth is indeed correct that they were "locked away" by being forced underground, in which case, then perhaps the Dwarves are the Forgotten Ones? Solas and Cole do seem to imply that their ability to do magic was somehow severed in some way, which would mean that as a people they had "forgotten" something they once knew how to perform, as well as perhaps explain how the Primeval Thaig seemed to have been constructed with magic?



#48202
tsunamitigerdragon

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#48203
Caddius

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I wonder if I should ask David Gaider is that's where he got the inspiration for the Elven Gods...that cannot be mere coincident. The Greeks seem to influence us even today, that just tells you how epic their culture was!

The Tevinter Imperium is a lovely Byzantine analogue, complete with battling technologically advanced enemies (the Qunari) with an 'alien' religion, but don't get much help from their neighbors because they're a different branch of the majority religion. (Black Divine/Orthodox Christianity.)

The ancient Tevinter Empire has been stated to be based off of Rome, complete with similar views on slavery and similar habits of absorbing the cultures of their neighbors.

The elves were exhausted by a civil war and the Tevinter Empire took over, absorbing their culture and possibly their religion. Arlathan was culturally very complex, with amazing architecture and apparently a fondness for theater and debate. It also had a dark underbelly.

The Successor Kingdoms of the Greeks were exhausted by centuries of fighting each other and were divided and conquered by Rome/Parthia.

:) I think it's safe to say the religious parallels are very deliberate.


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#48204
vierrae

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Ahh, thank you! I appreciate that correction. I've been trying to sort out the different artistic styles as it's been bothering me quite a bit. Yes, there are those super rough elven frescos, but then in the Emerald Graves there are those that are beautifully rendered and show a deep understanding of anatomy. I can't tell which predates the other. If we are to assume Arlathan was this glittering amazing wealth of knowledge Athens style, then yes, the more intricate ones are first and the more childlike paintings are due to the Elven equivalent of the Dark Ages. 

You're very welcome :)

I think some of the frescos in Emerald Graves were indeed added during Exalted March period (the one with the Sword of mercy, for example)



#48205
Rabbitonfire

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 I don't picture Solas as being that picky. :)

I can. Dalish like to talk about keeping traditions alive. 

Dalish Keeper: The secrets to creating this casserole has been passed down from keeper to keeper. It has won the Arlathvhen Casserole contest for five generations. 
Solas: Your previous keepers forgot to tell you to use less salt. 


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#48206
HurricaneGinger

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Hey guys, how do I get the soundtrack into my iTunes? I downloaded it and the zip folder is in my download folder, but I'm not sure what to do after that. 

 

 

I can. Dalish like to talk about keeping traditions alive. 

Dalish KeeperThe secrets to creating this casserole has been passed down from keeper to keeper. It has won the Arlathvhen Casserole contest for five generations. 
SolasYour previous keepers forgot to tell you to use less salt. 

 

 Oh Maker. Gordon Ramsay Solas

 

"YOU PUT TOO MUCH HALLA IN THE STEW, NOW IT'S SINGING HALLA-BACK GIRL"


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#48207
Zarro-Morningstar

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The Tevinter Imperium is a lovely Byzantine analogue, complete with battling technologically advanced enemies (the Qunari) with an 'alien' religion, but don't get much help from their neighbors because they're a different branch of the majority religion. (Black Divine/Orthodox Christianity.)

The ancient Tevinter Empire has been stated to be based off of Rome, complete with similar views on slavery and similar habits of absorbing the cultures of their neighbors.

The elves were exhausted by a civil war and the Tevinter Empire took over, absorbing their culture and possibly their religion. Arlathan was culturally very complex, with amazing architecture and apparently a fondness for theater and debate. It also had a dark underbelly.

The Successor Kingdoms of the Greeks were exhausted by centuries of fighting each other and were divided and conquered by Rome/Parthia.

:) I think it's safe to say the religious parallels are very deliberate.

Well then I...probably should had seen the connection between the Greek deities and the Elven deities.... a lot sooner...  :unsure:



#48208
vierrae

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The Tevinter Imperium is a lovely Byzantine analogue, complete with battling technologically advanced enemies (the Qunari) with an 'alien' religion, but don't get much help from their neighbors because they're a different branch of the majority religion. (Black Divine/Orthodox Christianity.)

The ancient Tevinter Empire has been stated to be based off of Rome, complete with similar views on slavery and similar habits of absorbing the cultures of their neighbors.

The elves were exhausted by a civil war and the Tevinter Empire took over, absorbing their culture and possibly their religion. Arlathan was culturally very complex, with amazing architecture and apparently a fondness for theater and debate. It also had a dark underbelly.

The Successor Kingdoms of the Greeks were exhausted by centuries of fighting each other and were divided and conquered by Rome/Parthia.

:) I think it's safe to say the religious parallels are very deliberate.

On the other hand, concept of trickster god comes directly from Vikings and their mythology (as in Loki), so it's a good old archetype mixture


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#48209
tsunamitigerdragon

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#48210
Caddius

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And returning to your thought on the Primeval Thaig.. I think June is to thank for that. His self-ascension begs the question of his actual origin. His tools are also unlike anything seen amongst the elves at that time. Something about his markings, too seems odd and unnatural compared to the others. It's dwarven. Much like Fen'Harel's mark being Dwarven and Eluvians being made from Lyrium and capable of carrying the blight and...... oh shiiiiiit. Guys. Guys. GUYS. THIS IS GOING SOMEWHERE. I can feel it! I just don't know where!
 

One thing I don't think that gets discussed very often is that the dwarves made contact with Arlathan centuries before the fall. This was even longer before the First Blight. Do the memories go back that far? We've got Kal'sharok axing their brothers to death to prevent Tevinter from being angry with them for sheltering elven refugees. And Tamlen's vision of an underground city that's eventually covered in blackness through the Eluvian.

Just how old is the Primeval Thaig?

What's this about Fen'harel's mark being dwarven? What did I miss? :o

DLC! DLC! My Deth Nug mount for DLC! (and clarification.)



#48211
Zarro-Morningstar

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And returning to your thought on the Primeval Thaig.. I think June is to thank for that. His self-ascension begs the question of his actual origin. His tools are also unlike anything seen amongst the elves at that time. Something about his markings, too seems odd and unnatural compared to the others. It's dwarven. Much like Fen'Harel's mark being Dwarven and Eluvians being made from Lyrium and capable of carrying the blight and...... oh shiiiiiit. Guys. Guys. GUYS. THIS IS GOING SOMEWHERE. I can feel it! I just don't know where!
 

I know where this is going...West...it is going west, lol! 


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#48212
Rabbitonfire

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And returning to your thought on the Primeval Thaig.. I think June is to thank for that. His self-ascension begs the question of his actual origin. His tools are also unlike anything seen amongst the elves at that time. Something about his markings, too seems odd and unnatural compared to the others. It's dwarven. Much like Fen'Harel's mark being Dwarven and Eluvians being made from Lyrium and capable of carrying the blight and...... oh shiiiiiit. Guys. Guys. GUYS. THIS IS GOING SOMEWHERE. I can feel it! I just don't know where!
 

Half Life 3 confirmed!


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#48213
AryBoBary

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Well, I caved.  Hanging up my Trevelyan to make another Levellan. *shakes fist* Curse you, Dread Wolf!


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#48214
Sifr

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And returning to your thought on the Primeval Thaig.. I think June is to thank for that. His self-ascension begs the question of his actual origin. His tools are also unlike anything seen amongst the elves at that time. Something about his markings, too seems odd and unnatural compared to the others. It's dwarven. Much like Fen'Harel's mark being Dwarven and Eluvians being made from Lyrium and capable of carrying the blight and...... oh shiiiiiit. Guys. Guys. GUYS. THIS IS GOING SOMEWHERE. I can feel it! I just don't know where!
 

 

You know, your last few sentences reminded me of Dagna and her comments about nearly having some kind of epiphany, but couldn't figure out what it was... which even more oddly enough, was what I was going to say? Perhaps June was a dwarf, or a tranquil?

 

And now I want to point to a dwarf who likes to say "Enchantment"... but I fear that saying X = Elven God is rapidly becoming too cliche?


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#48215
tsunamitigerdragon

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.



#48216
Caddius

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Ok so here's the thing about the Forgotten Ones. They're supposed to be found in the Void, hence Andruil going there to find them, hunt them, and kill them. From her point of view, a very noble, and necessary goal.

But... where IS the Void? I get that the world is the Earth and betwixt the Fade and the Earth we have the Veil (which is less than a wall and more like like fishnet stockings). Is the Void beyond the Fade? Or is the Void in the deep center of the Earth?

Isn't there something in Chantry lore about how those rejected by the Maker wander the Void, beyond the Fade? And those who he likes are taken to his side?

I picture Thedas as reality, the Fade as its dreamscape, and the Veil as the frankly rather fragile barrier between them. And the Void is what lies beyond the confines of the Fade, divorced from Thedas.

Which makes Gaider's comments about the Old Gods being separate from the Maker's plan for creation quite interesting.



#48217
LliiraAnna

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You know, your last few sentences reminded me of Dagna and her comments about nearly having some kind of epiphany, but couldn't figure out what it was... which even more oddly enough, was what I was going to say? Perhaps June was a dwarf, or a tranquil?

 

And now I want to point to a dwarf who likes to say "Enchantment"... but I fear that saying X = Elven God is rapidly becoming too cliche?

I think she said something like "My thought was the thought of all dwarves", like she was... I dunno... In all their heads at once? And it happened when she was studying either lyrium or something else Fade-related, I don't remember. I found it really interesting, in a creepy kind of way.



#48218
tsunamitigerdragon

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#48219
OxidantsHappen

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So everyone talking about their beautiful artwork kind of maybe inspired me to make a thing.  It's not a good thing, but it's my thing. ​Don't laugh. In a spoiler tag due to size.

 

Spoiler

 

I bet my hat that when I post this it will come out as some jumbled mess of incorrectly used brackets and image links because I am so not a technology person... I have exhausted my entire collective technological understandings just figuring out how to do the spoiler tag. 

 

By the way, can anyone who does art tell me how I can make the depth perception better on the face? And yes, it's not even close to being finished but its Lavellan because sadness and ears.

 

​And I didn't realize how embarrassing this would be? I really hope nobody on here knows me.


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#48220
tsunamitigerdragon

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#48221
madrar

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And returning to your thought on the Primeval Thaig.. I think June is to thank for that. His self-ascension begs the question of his actual origin. His tools are also unlike anything seen amongst the elves at that time. Something about his markings, too seems odd and unnatural compared to the others. It's dwarven. Much like Fen'Harel's mark being Dwarven and Eluvians being made from Lyrium and capable of carrying the blight and...... oh shiiiiiit. Guys. Guys. GUYS. THIS IS GOING SOMEWHERE. I can feel it! I just don't know where!
 

 

I'm totally with you on June + Dwarves, but hit a wall about Fen'Harel's mark being Dwarven.  Where the what now?



#48222
madrar

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Definitely possible! I think if this is his goal, then the danger is that there's a high likelihood of everything going wrong:

 

a. He sneaks into wherever he's trapped all these people, and awakens one of the trapped elven gods

b. The people trapped in limbo have long gone crazy from being held in a fate worse than death

c. The people are long consumed by the elven gods but their 'presence' is being mimicked like bait. 

 

Actually, I'd say regardless of what Solas is planning to do, there's a huge likelihood of everything going wrong.  

 

Hmm.  This is all still half-baked theory in my head, but don't think anyone in the city of Arlathan survived the fall.  There may be scattered examples of surviving elves, sustained by Uthenera in remote tombs reachable by eluvian, but I imagine their numbers are small at this point. The only examples I would count on being preserved, at least for now, are those who would have been airborne (in dragon form) during the attack, directly before the City was sealed.  ie: the remaining Old Gods.  

 

"...wait.  What attack?"

 

Yeah.  It's shaky as hell and so far out there it's not even visible from left field, but hear me out.  Like all nutjob theories, it sorts out some important threads at the cost of tangling others: in this case, the nature of Andruil's weapon and how the Golden City turned Black. 

 

The translated elven codex that describes the weapon came up bit a while back (many, many pages ago) but I'd like to tweak my concept of what it was, exactly.  "Shaking the radiance of the stars" into "grains of light" would be a much more apt description of an extremely powerful laser, conceptually.   A laser whose source (stars) we then trace and decrypt back through Dalish myth to be radioactive energy from the (potentially blighted) lyrium “Blood of the Sun”.

 
So... laser.  Very, very powerful laser.  Now consider the effect of a femtosecond laser pulse on a metal surface.  
 
It turns it black.  Pitch black.  Permanently- not like a layer of carbon soot that can be rubbed off.  The intense heat restructures the metal on a microscopic scale such that it becomes an incredibly effective absorptive (instead of reflective) surface. This holds true for any metal, even though on an atomic level it is still entirely made of up whatever it was before- silver, or aluminum, or… gold.  
 
How much of the “Golden” City’s description was literal and how much was just rhetorical glorification is debatable, but as the greatest city of the Elvhen Empire, even if it were not literally entirely golden, it was probably liberally accented with the gaudy display of wealth and power that gold conveys.  And if a weapon like this was turned on the city?  Every golden surface would be indelibly blackened.
 
An interesting coincidence, but probably not worth more than a raised eyebrow on its own.  What gives it a bit more credibility, to me, is the peculiar defense system we run into in the Citadelle du Corbeau in the Exalted Plains: the one the humans clearly neither understand nor control.  A lesser weapon, certainly, but seems to confirm that beam weapons were part of the ancient elven arsenal, and gives a vague hint at how Andruil’s version might have worked.
 
Anyway, the threat of this weapon being turned against Arlathan may have been the last straw and trigger for Solas to shut the whole thing down, possibly in a bubble of localized space-time moments before the weapon's release.  (Much like the "fade magic? what the heck is that?" song and dance he gives you at the beginning of the game, I'm not sure I believe him when he claims ignorance that magic could be used to decelerate/accelerate time.  The fade is all about warped-physics-as-magic, and that's kind of his Thing.) If he did make the attempt, he may have been able to slow relative time to a near crawl, but he couldn't have stopped it entirely.  As decade after decade passed in the outside world, Andruil's arrow of light would have eventually found its mark, and by the time the Corypheus got there, the inevitable had happened.  The City was black and utterly empty- its physical inhabitants vaporized, residual lyrium blighted by the energy source of the apocalyptic weapon that had been unleashed there.  
 
Bit dramatic, yeah?
 
I don't know that I actually buy any of it.  ^w^  But until I can think up an alternative that fits, this is all I've got.  

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#48223
Rabbitonfire

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And returning to your thought on the Primeval Thaig.. I think June is to thank for that. His self-ascension begs the question of his actual origin. His tools are also unlike anything seen amongst the elves at that time. Something about his markings, too seems odd and unnatural compared to the others. It's dwarven. Much like Fen'Harel's mark being Dwarven and Eluvians being made from Lyrium and capable of carrying the blight and...... oh shiiiiiit. Guys. Guys. GUYS. THIS IS GOING SOMEWHERE. I can feel it! I just don't know where!
 

Red lyrium is connected to the Blight, Blight infects the living, the living can be corrupted into darkspawn, darkspawn are controlled like a hived mind, the hive mind is hearing the calling. Red. Mind control. Killing of living. REAPERS!


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#48224
tsunamitigerdragon

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.


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#48225
CardinalSin90

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I don't think June was a Tranquil - if he was capable of ascending into the Elven Pantheon, he had to have been a mage of some sort. And I totally think he was a dwarf. But you know, maybe he achieved a position in the Pantheon because of his achievements - something he made - much like a Dwarven Paragon. He crafted something so powerful/ amazing/ useful that they had no choice but to raise him above mortals as one of their own.

And no, I already put $5 on the table for Sandal/June, so you're not crazy. And sure, maybe it IS cliche, but we've got 9 Elven Gods to locate, and if I remember anything from Solas' discussion with Varric about the stories he tells and practically everyone being a spy, I don't think the propensity to seek for alternate identities within our party members/ world states is uncalled for.


You are correct! Fascinating that the Void exists in both Chantry and Elven lore. If the gylph in Sylaise's Shrine tells us anything about Andruil it's that she (the hawk and the hare) was looking for those that would be beyond her reach (the Sun - possibly even THE Sun who fathered Elgar'an and was overthrown by his son Chronos-Zeus style, or the Forgotten Ones).

If the Old Gods were separate from the Maker's plan, maybe it's because they were an attempt to usurp him? Solas and Cassandra had an interesting banter about it where she asked if the Old God Dragons were the Elven God's pets and that's how this all went down. I can't remember Solas' exact reaction, but it was something along the lines of his usual lines "It's more complex than that."


I felt he purposely dodged the question saying that they are just symbols of pride and power. But I really felt he left out the real answer. He is touchy about the archdemon subject yet never elaborates.