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[Solas]

I know the last scrap on wolf lore that I recall is somewhere in my caps folder but I can't be assed trawling through it lol sorry. but it's a codex you get in the Fade after Adamant

[Elessara]

I agree. I enjoy Bethesda games but they don't hold a candle to Bioware. I'm curious to see how well they write the companions this time though. I don't expect anything as complex as Bioware but I'm looking forward to their promised improvements.

 

I also hope they use a larger pool of voice actors than they did for Skyrim.  Walking into an Imperial Legion barracks and hearing 4 legionnaires all talking to each other in the same voice was a little weird.  Ok, it was the same VA as Fenris but still .. it was weird.  And I know BioWare also uses the same VAs for npcs in a game but they seem to have better spacing ... or at least I've never heard two people talking to each other with the exact same voice.  Why yes, I am conveniently ignoring the female Trooper talking to Satele Shan in SWTOR, why do you ask?

[Moondreamer01]

A curious thing - this connection of Alamarri with wolves. I wonder if there's more to it than just symbolism.

 

Hell... I'm convinced there's more. It can't be just a mere coincidence.

 

Wolf - a guide and protector of mankind???

 

And Alamarri warriors having wolf companions at their sides since youth?? Just like Emerald Knights and - likely - Mythal herself once??? 

 

Oh, come on!

Don't forget the saga of Tyrdda Brightaxe and the theory Mythal was her lover!

 

What I wonder, personnally, is how werewolves came about and why it's a problem that seems to be specifically Fereldan.

[Solas]

@midnight tea - Right?

 

Also, compare wolves historically to some humans (Alamarri warriors with wolves at their sides like EKs) to wolves now (see: distrusted in Ferelden lorebites, like how to modern Dalish the Dread wolf aint trusted). same story of noble warrior companion to feared and distrusted

 

I think it ties to Tyrdda Brightax the AvvarMother and her leaf-eared (ELF) lover. yo

and how the DW has some ties to the Maker cuz he made the veil and chantry says the maker did that.

 

ninja'd by moondream

[Rascoth]

So... I was thinking that of all my Quizzies only one decided to preserve Inquisition. Rest decided to dispand. Then I realised it's also the only Quizzy to drink from the Well and the only one that promised to stop Solas at all cost... 

After my first Trespasser playthrough I never thought I'll end up picking 'stop at all cost' option, but it just fits her character.

 

But why am I even mentioning it? Because after that I had those really ridiculous doddles stuck in my head.

Spoiler

Almost all my Quizzies.

Then there's Adaar.

She really has anger management problems.

 

Sorry, I had to get them out of my system. Please continue on normal posting.

[midnight tea]

Don't forget the saga of Tyrdda Brightaxe and the theory Mythal was her lover!

 

What I wonder, personnally, is how werewolves came about and why it's a problem that seems to be specifically Fereldan.

 

@midnight tea - Right?

 

Also, compare wolves historically to some humans (Alamarri warriors with wolves at their sides like EKs) to wolves now (see: distrusted in Ferelden lorebites, like how to modern Dalish the Dread wolf aint trusted). same story of noble warrior companion to feared and distrusted

 

....It's almost as if someone tried to drive a wedge between them and their favorite animal companion, ey?

 

Though Fereldans still stay loyal to their dogs which are direct descendants of wolves. So the connection is still there.

[Solas]

FINE I HUNTED IT DOWN JUST BECAUSE I LIKE THIS THREAD

 

Last bit I remember: Codex entry: a plea from the warrior to the spirits

 

"The wolves were our allies. In the old days, before Andraste, before the Maker, we knew this to be so. But man grew tired of the chase, the hunt, the truth of fang and steel and blood. Man put seeds in the ground, tended cattle and chickens, and built fences to keep the wolves away. Man bred hounds that would heel and sit and obey, and told himself that the hounds were just as good.

Now the darkspawn come again. They break our fences, kill our cattle and chickens, burn our crops. Our dogs cower with tails between their legs, or if they fight, they fall to the poison of darkspawn blood. We are dying, and I am shamed by my cowardice.

The ways of man and hound are not enough. I come to you, spirits of the old forest, I who built fences, I who came with fire and steel to drive you away. I come to you because fear has made my arms weak. I ask you for unforgiving rage to make them strong again.

Kill the hound in my heart, and grow strong from the meat on its bones. In its place, give me the wolf.

—Words caught in the bloody ripples of ancient water in the Fade, somehow remembered"

[Elessara]

I know the last scrap on wolf lore that I recall is somewhere in my caps folder but I can't be assed trawling through it lol sorry. but it's a codex you get in the Fade after Adamant

 

I remember which one your talking about ... a man is saying how people tamed themselves from wolves into dogs but now to fight the darkspawn he needed to become a wolf again?  I think?

 

Here it is:  http://dragonage.wik..._to_the_Spirits

 

Edit:  Hah, ninja'd!

[Solas]

Lol! Thanks for the thought Elessara, that's nice of you

[figment_]

@midnight tea - Right?

 

Also, compare wolves historically to some humans (Alamarri warriors with wolves at their sides like EKs) to wolves now (see: distrusted in Ferelden lorebites, like how to modern Dalish the Dread wolf aint trusted). same story of noble warrior companion to feared and distrusted

 

I think it ties to Tyrdda Brightax the AvvarMother and her leaf-eared (ELF) lover. yo

and how the DW has some ties to the Maker cuz he made the veil and chantry says the maker did that.

 

ninja'd by moondream

I was reading "Dane and the Werewolf" the other day, and it makes me wonder if there's any connection to Fen'Harel...

 

I find it odd that they switched places for "a year and a day"...like the story of Andruil...

[Solas]

I hope you all enjoyed this lore masterclass of me trying to remember every nonelven mention of wolves in the lore that I can recall L O L

[Moondreamer01]

FINE I HUNTED IT DOWN JUST BECAUSE I LIKE THIS THREAD

 

Last bit I remember: Codex entry: a plea from the warrior to the spirits

 

"The wolves were our allies. In the old days, before Andraste, before the Maker, we knew this to be so. But man grew tired of the chase, the hunt, the truth of fang and steel and blood. Man put seeds in the ground, tended cattle and chickens, and built fences to keep the wolves away. Man bred hounds that would heel and sit and obey, and told himself that the hounds were just as good.

Now the darkspawn come again. They break our fences, kill our cattle and chickens, burn our crops. Our dogs cower with tails between their legs, or if they fight, they fall to the poison of darkspawn blood. We are dying, and I am shamed by my cowardice.

The ways of man and hound are not enough. I come to you, spirits of the old forest, I who built fences, I who came with fire and steel to drive you away. I come to you because fear has made my arms weak. I ask you for unforgiving rage to make them strong again.

Kill the hound in my heart, and grow strong from the meat on its bones. In its place, give me the wolf.

—Words caught in the bloody ripples of ancient water in the Fade, somehow remembered"

I remember reading this codex, but never made the link until now that this is the birth of werewolves. Warriors making a deal with spirits to protect themselves from darkspawns. It seems from the way the warrior talk that their relationship to the spirits is really similar to the Avvar, since it looks like hs' praying to them for help.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I think if there are connections between the non-elven wolf stuff and Fen'Harel, they're a product of his "dark and dreaming sleep," and probably not the result of direct intervention.  He was taking a long, long nap while all of these other cultures were waxing and waning.

 

I remembered reading this codex, but never made the link until now that this is the birth of werewolves. Warriors making a deal with spirits to protect themselves from darkspawns. It seems from the way the warrior talk that their relationship to the spirits is really similar to the Avvar, since it looks like hs' praying to them for help.

 

Ahhh!  Now it clicks for me too!  Thanks for the insight

 

I want to see more of this sort of thing: mortals and spirits working together symbiotically, like the Avvar do.  I'll bet that the savage nature of the werewolves in the Brecilian forest had a lot to do with Zathrian's vengeful mindset when he inflicted the curse in the first place.  It split the forest spirit into the gentle Lady, and the very dangerous Witherfang.  If it were done carefully, with a mindset toward protection and guardianship, the werewolves might be less bestial when transformed.

[Solas]

I think some of it is due to natural cultural osmotic exchange and bleeding. see how roman borrowed from greek mythology or whatever way around it was

 

and also the natural recurrence of the same theme, arising independently in multiple locations. see: world flood myths in completely separate ancient world mythologies

and how different cultures come up with similar explanations for some stuff e.g. a god must be moving the sun across the sky

 

just like in our world.

puts on sunglasses

[midnight tea]

FINE I HUNTED IT DOWN JUST BECAUSE I LIKE THIS THREAD

 

Last bit I remember: Codex entry: a plea from the warrior to the spirits

 

"The wolves were our allies. In the old days, before Andraste, before the Maker, we knew this to be so. But man grew tired of the chase, the hunt, the truth of fang and steel and blood. Man put seeds in the ground, tended cattle and chickens, and built fences to keep the wolves away. Man bred hounds that would heel and sit and obey, and told himself that the hounds were just as good.

Now the darkspawn come again. They break our fences, kill our cattle and chickens, burn our crops. Our dogs cower with tails between their legs, or if they fight, they fall to the poison of darkspawn blood. We are dying, and I am shamed by my cowardice.

The ways of man and hound are not enough. I come to you, spirits of the old forest, I who built fences, I who came with fire and steel to drive you away. I come to you because fear has made my arms weak. I ask you for unforgiving rage to make them strong again.

Kill the hound in my heart, and grow strong from the meat on its bones. In its place, give me the wolf.

—Words caught in the bloody ripples of ancient water in the Fade, somehow remembered"

 

Symbolically, this looks to me like humans might have ... hmm... disappointed the Wolf, because they became complacent. Instead of steeling themselves for future fight and staying vigilant, they chose an easier - and simpler - life, for which they're paying a price now, that trouble found them.

 

Interestingly, it's a similar theme to that found in a story of Tyrdda Bright-Axe - at the urging of her (elf) love Tyrdda took her people away, into the mountains, to basically keep them away from becoming complacent themselves.

 

....I wonder what that means if looked at from a perspective of a bigger picture?

 

 

I suppose it could be that the Final Confrontation with the Blight (or whatever else there is) is something that will eventually happen - likely, it was foreseen to happen a long, long time ago and preparations were made for it. But things went the wrong way - instead of preparing themselves, people grew weak. Their guides have failed, or something else has made people distrust or abandon them. It's possible that this world is just too weak to confront what awaits it in a state it is now.

[Nightspirit]

I wonder if "May the Dread Wolf take you" could've been a blessing in ancient Arlathan. May the Dread Wolf take you... to his sanctuary.

 

A lovely mural for Top, because I think it's absolutely adorable. I don't remember his lips being so rosy in game though.

"You saw another story, written in desperation to give me rosier lips than I deserved."

[figment_]

I think some of it is due to natural cultural osmotic exchange and bleeding. see how roman borrowed from greek mythology or whatever way around it was

 

and also the natural recurrence of the same theme, arising independently in multiple locations. see: world flood myths in completely separate ancient world mythologies

and how different cultures come up with similar explanations for some stuff e.g. a god must be moving the sun across the sky

 

just like in our world.

puts on sunglasses

And...maybe a werewolf in one culture would be perceived as a shapeshifter in another, or vice-versa?

[midnight tea]

I think some of it is due to natural cultural osmotic exchange and bleeding. see how roman borrowed from greek mythology or whatever way around it was

 

and also the natural recurrence of the same theme, arising independently in multiple locations. see: world flood myths in completely separate ancient world mythologies

and how different cultures come up with similar explanations for some stuff e.g. a god must be moving the sun across the sky

 

just like in our world.

puts on sunglasses

 

True - but Thedas ultimately isn't like our world. There isn't just cultural exchange - there's also the Fade, the implication of existence of collective consciousness, as well as a noticeable pattern of historical events mirroring what has happened in the past, in a fractal-like way.

[midnight tea]

I wonder if "May the Dread Wolf take you" could've been a blessing in ancient Arlathan. May the Dread Wolf take you... to his sanctuary.

 

It was likely always a curse. Cassandra also screams at defeated enemies "Maker take you!"

[Nightspirit]

It was likely always a curse. Cassandra also screams at defeated enemies "Maker take you!"

 

Yeah, I know. I've just been living in "what if" land.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I wonder if "May the Dread Wolf take you" could've been a blessing in ancient Arlathan. May the Dread Wolf take you... to his sanctuary.

 

I just can't believe that they 

1) Worked the "May the Dread Wolf take you" phrase into Trespasser

2) Made it all the painful feels

 

I've seen it played for laughs or smut so many times in fanfiction, so the feels hit me like a truck.  And oh the delicious irony of it.  The Dalish use it as a curse, but if you know the Dread Wolf's actual history and personality, saying "May the Dread Wolf take you" is like saying "May you be free."     I wonder if it started out as a sort of code phrase among his followers and friends.

[Solas]

True - but Thedas ultimately isn't like our world. There isn't just cultural exchange - there's also the Fade, the implication of existence of collective consciousness, as well as a noticeable pattern of historical events mirroring what has happened in the past, in a fractal-like way.

Some of it, not all. I mentioned in a previous post the links I suspect between the Alamarri wolfcompanions and the EK wolf companions and the Maker and Fen'Harel and etcetc

[figment_]

I just can't believe that they 

1) Worked the "May the Dread Wolf take you" phrase into Trespasser

2) Made it all the painful feels

 

I've seen it played for laughs or smut so many times in fanfiction, so the feels hit me like a truck.  And oh the delicious irony of it.  The Dalish use it as a curse, but if you know the Dread Wolf's actual history and personality, saying "May the Dread Wolf take you" is like saying "May you be free."     I wonder if it started out as a sort of code phrase among his followers and friends.

That's why Merrill's so funny now!

[NeverlandHunter]

 

Ha, wolves are just usurpers   Foxes waited in shadows, biding their time for the perfect time to strike and reclaim their place as the most mischievous creatures of them all 

Foxes are cool! They sound like my cat!

 

Misery loves company.  

EVIL!

Haha, if I have to be miserable with anyone I'd pick to be miserable with you Solas!

 

We do have a bit in the lore on wolves to cultures other than the Dalish:
 
"The wolf was the most sacred of all the creatures worshipped by Alamarri. They believed it was created by the gods to be both a guide and protector for mankind. Promising young warriors were paired off with cubs, and wolves were honored as much as the greatest fighters when they fell in battle."
 
On the constellation Fenrir,
 

"Called "White Wolf" in common parlance, Fenrir has always been considered an oddity among scholars, primarily because wolves have no special place within ancient Tevinter folklore. To many, this represents the strongest argument that the Imperium deliberately supplanted older elven constellation names - in the case of Fenrir, an alignment with the elven trickster god, Fen'Harel, would be logical. Others claim a much older Neromenian tale of a wolf escaping hunters by fleeing into the sky exists, but the legend's veracity has never been proved."

 

On wolves in Ferelden,

 

"It is rather unfair, the reputation that the wolf possesses in Ferelden. For a people that so clearly adore their hounds, Fereldans simultaneously harbor a distrust of wolves that borders on the unreasonable. Unreasonable, that is if one were not familiar with the ancient legends regarding werewolves. There was a time in Ferelden's past when demons inhabited the bodies of wolves in great numbers, causing the wars against werewolves and spreading great fear and panic. The werewolves were slain, but even today the noble wolf is still looked upon with distrust."

 

"Hafter, the first man to be named teyrn, the hero who united our Alamarri ancestors to drive back the darkspawn of the second Blight, was reputed to be the son of a werewolf. Now, perhaps this was meant to be some comment on his temperament, or simply a way of making a great man even larger than life. But more than half the noble families of Ferelden claim to be descendants of Hafter, and consequently, many of our people believe they have some distant kinship with wolves. It is only good manners to be polite to one's kin."

 

There's more that I remember, I'm trying to find it.

Oh, that's awesome! Thanks Out of likes!

The last two paragraphs seem counter-intuitive though!

 

I hate cats. 

How can you hate that face?

 

I'll be playing Fallout 4 as well.  Bethesda games never held my interest for as long as BioWare games have because of the shallower story and character depth but we'll see how F4 goes.  I still don't think it will keep me occupied for a year until Andromeda though.  But I also have the new SWTOR expansion coming up soon.  I have no idea when BioWare's new IP is going to be announced or even what it's about so I'll wait to see on that one.

 

I agree. I enjoy Bethesda games but they don't hold a candle to Bioware. I'm curious to see how well they write the companions this time though. I don't expect anything as complex as Bioware but I'm looking forward to their promised improvements.

MY RANT

Spoiler

I am very excited for Fallout 4 and I usually don't get hyped about non-fantasy games!

The Elder Scrolls series was my first game love. Oblivion was the first game I dumped hours into playing instead of sitting behind my brother watching him play.

I used to watch him play Morrowind, sometimes I'd play for a bit to pick flowers or set up candles but he always did all the fighting because everything in the game freaked me out! XD My younger brother by the way! My mother got him a used copy of Oblivion for his birthday that he played for a little then lost interest in. That night I decided I'd make my own character just for the fun of it (I already loved character creation at this point and always made my brother's characters). I stayed up all night eating icecream sandwiches and playing my bada** red guard warrior, mage, rogue (what I was overwhelmed by the options!). To this day whenever I play an Elder Scrolls game I get a craving for icecream sandwiches XD

But anywho, I fell in love with the game, it was the first game I really played and put a interest in. When Skyrim came out I thought I'd never emerge from our family room, it was so awesome! Like nothing I'd ever played before. I spent hours reading books in game, decorating my home with odd trinkets I found lying around, and reloading so my stupid horse and stupid Meeko and stupid villagers would live through the dragon attack!

I found Origins later, when I was finally burned out of playing Skyrim. It was an amazing experience, the characters, the choices, the romance, and world. It was unbelievable. My mind categorized games in "crap my brothers liked (Halo, CoD, ect.) < and Bethesda games. Dragon Age completely changed that! I thought a good fantasy RPG was its ability to immersive you and free range to be who you wanted to be. I was wrong! DA was waaay more structured and linear, but the world felt more real!

I could never say I like BioWare better than Bethesda. I just hold the ability to hoard a crap ton of junk, to travel to the farthest reaches of the lands, and to kill unsuspecting NPCs on a whim to close to my heart, but BioWare excels at story and characters. BioWare is like reading a great book and Bethesda like playing make believe like you did when you were a kid! They're completely different, and I love that. A bit more character to Bethesda's worlds would be welcome, and a bit more expansion and fine-grained this is so tedious I love it (seriously spent so much time getting troll skulls to sit perfectly on my shelves!) would be awesome in BioWare. But at the end of the day they take different routes to what it means to be a RPG and I want that! They are both are sparkly gems of specialness in my mind, and I couldn't choose between the two!

I went off! 

[Shari'El]

A lovely mural for Top, because I think it's absolutely adorable. I don't remember his lips being so rosy in game though.

"You saw another story, written in desperation to give me rosier lips than I deserved."

 

His lips are rather rosy

 

 

If you're wondering why I have an image of Solas' lips on my computer - it's for research.

I really like to dive into the game, studying its' lore, art and characters, it makes sense I'll have an image of the lips of such a prominent character in Dragon Age.