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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#145776
midnight tea

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While I do think that Solas was once a spirit there is his dialogue at haven where he says he grew up in a village to the north. I don't think this is a lie, he did not even have to mention it. So I am trying to wrap my mind around this.

 

All ancient elves were once spirits - in fact, it's likely that all living sentient beings were spirits once, or are still spirits in a sense (Solas does say to Lavellan that "he sees what she truly is" and that "she has a rare and marvelous spirit").

 

The difference between people like Solas (or Cole) and mortals is that Thedosians simply don't remember it. I think it may as well be the reason for mortality to actually be an issue - they lose memories, or don't have enough of them to preserve their sense of identity.

 

Anyway - nothing stops Solas from being a spirit AND then growing up in a village somewhere. We do know that Cole has a lot of his own growing up to do after he manifests outside of the Fade, and he does a lot of it in Skyhold.


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#145777
FernRain

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While I do think that Solas was once a spirit there is his dialogue at haven where he says he grew up in a village to the north. I don't think this is a lie, he did not even have to mention it. So I am trying to wrap my mind around this.

 

He says he was Solas first, and it's all he has ever been.

 

Not sure if that means he was a form of pride spirit or he was always an Elvhen.



#145778
FernRain

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Solas does say to Lavellan that "he sees what she truly is" and that "she has a rare and marvelous spirit"

 

I wonder what spirit that would be :huh:.



#145779
midnight tea

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I wonder what spirit that would be :huh:.

 

I discussed it once or twice on this thread - personally I bet for Hope. They're one of the rarest benevolent spirits.

 

Faith is rare as well (btw. Faith can be corrupted into Pride demon too), but Faith is likely Cass, or Leliana (or both).


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#145780
TheyCallMeBunny

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I always did wonder what kind of spirit/being it was that we met in the Fade. I'm not buying that it was the late Divine. She never really answered any of our questions, and that makes me really suspicious. And that last message to Leliana, if she wasn't the Divine that would also be quite weird. The writers left what she is and what happened to her very ambiguous, so I'm hoping that we will get at least some answers in the next game.



#145781
paramitch

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All ancient elves were once spirits - in fact, it's likely that all living sentient beings were spirits once, or are still spirits in a sense (Solas does say to Lavellan that "he sees what she truly is" and that "she has a rare and marvelous spirit").

 

The difference between people like Solas (or Cole) and mortals is that Thedosians simply don't remember it. I think it may as well be the reason for mortality to actually be an issue - they lose memories, or don't have enough of them to preserve their sense of identity.

 

Anyway - nothing stops Solas from being a spirit AND then growing up in a village somewhere. We do know that Cole has a lot of his own growing up to do after he manifests outside of the Fade, and he does a lot of it in Skyhold.

 

I definitely hold with those who think Solas is and was a primarily real being. He identifies with the spirits and spirit world, but to me, his being at his core any other being type weakens the main plotline. I don't think his conflict is spirit vs. real. I think it's simply that he is facing a world in which there is no longer a distinction between benevolent or malevolent spirit beings who cross from the Fade. I don't think his intense empathy makes him one of them.

 

To me, Solas never comes across as someone who never lived. I think instead he's far more effective as a character who had slumbered and utterly forgotten life's flavor and color. Awakening was punishment in itself at first. Instead his persona to me is (brilliantly and subtly) implied as your basic awesome nerd. He lived and -- still -- lives in his head. He's smart, talented (but not flashy: TM Iron Bull); shy. Isolated. Taught himself. He never misses a thing but he's not the person you'd ever pick as the front of the mage class. Although it turns out that he's superb and really powerful.

And (Iron Bull had it right) I love that. He was hiding in plain sight. He never lied. He was right there the whole time. I just wish we could have talked to him more. Asked more questions.

 

And more kisses. More Solas kisses would have been awesome. Preferably on-demand as with other romances. Darn it!


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#145782
Patchwork

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I discussed it once or twice on this thread - personally I bet for Hope. They're one of the rarest benevolent spirits.

 

Faith is rare as well (btw. Faith can be corrupted into Pride demon too), but Faith is likely Cass, or Leliana (or both).

 

I'm not sure that a spirit of a person has to be defined by a single emotion like creatures from the Fade seem to be. A person's spirit can be made up of all emotions and it's different from person to person, perhaps that complexity is part of why Fade spirits seek dreamers in the Fade. 

 

I do think that the first elvhen were spirits given flesh (although in my theory they're created by Mythal and Elgnar'nan who are the last of the dragons who ruled over Thedas) and Solas is part of the first generation of elves who were born rather than created.   


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#145783
midnight tea

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I always did wonder what kind of spirit/being it was that we met in the Fade. I'm not buying that it was the late Divine. She never really answered any of our questions, and that makes me really suspicious. And that last message to Leliana, if she wasn't the Divine that would also be quite weird. The writers left what she is and what happened to her very ambiguous, so I'm hoping that we will get at least some answers in the next game.

 

I think they couldn't tell what she is, because they'd reveal some kind of Big Thing that may be important later. But it may be a lot of things - a powerful spirit that identifies with Justinia so much, that we can't tell one from another (like Solas suggested it may be), her own spirit that was kinda halfway at the process of shedding her past identity, someone sent by someone, or who knows what else.

 

What interests me now is that it's a bright spirit that glows with golden light - the sort of "holy energy" that we rarely see. And we do know that the color of a given magic bears some significance (raw fade magic appears to be green, blight magic is red, ancient elfy/evanuris magic is blue, which also happens to be a color of normal lyrium).

 

The one place we see the color of such magic is when Templar use their abilities - namely The Wrath Of Heaven (an attack that stuns enemies and damages demons, that can be further morphed into abilities named Breath Of Light and Embrace The Light), as well as Spell Purge - an ability that Solas claims "reinforces reality".



#145784
midnight tea

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I'm not sure that a spirit of a person has to be defined by a single emotion like creatures from the Fade seem to be. A person's spirit can be made up of all emotions and it's different from person to person, perhaps that complexity is part of why Fade spirits seek dreamers in the Fade. 

 

I do think that the first elvhen were spirits given flesh (although in my theory they're created by Mythal and Elgnarnan who are the last of the dragons who ruled over Thedas) and Solas is part of the first generation of elves who were born rather than created.   

 

A spirit may grow in complexity, but that doesn't mean that they can't have a core - something they've originated from, or hold dear to their heart. That doesn't mean that that single emotion or concept defined them all; but it's still something that they find important to who they are. 

 

Solas, after all, asks Inquisitor "is Cassandra defined by her cheekbones and not her faith?"

 

We do know that Cass is defined by more than just her faith - in fact, for a faithful person she can be amazingly skeptical and pragmatic, but her faith is still something that is essential to her being who she is.

 

And look at Leliana - another possible Faith. If human Inquisitor asks Solas about them during the balcony scene, he mentions "Leliana has a brilliant mind, but her faith was damaged. For her it's a game of tactics now." Restoring her faith (not just in religious sense, but her faith in people or value of mercy) in her personal quest is crucial for her to remember her core principles and not stray into becoming a twisted version of herself (... almost like a spirit becomes a demon, only somewhat more complex, ey?). She says after successfully softening her in Valence "I've almost lost myself".


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#145785
Kadan

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Permanence, memory, being remembered, or being forgotten, are very important concepts to the ancient elves, it seems.

 

Being forgotten was/is like being dead, really permanently dead in their society, because everyone had such a long memory. It's hard to be forgotten unless willfully. You basically become nothing, you have never existed, if forgotten. Being a Forgotten One had to be the ultimate insult/condemnation. It also lends a great deal of importance to Solas telling a romanced Lavellan that he will never forget her. Cole tells him, in one instance, "They're not gone, so long as you remember them." which reinforces this idea.

 

A desire for permanence is what seemingly separates the elves from the spirits, in the end.

 

One thing he mentions after the death of Wisdom is that if enough remembered it, then it could reform into a spirit of wisdom again, though maybe not exactly like it was before. So remembering is a very important aspect of being a spirit. Your comment helped me remember this, and it will help with my next chapter. :)

While I do think that Solas was once a spirit there is his dialogue at haven where he says he grew up in a village to the north. I don't think this is a lie, he did not even have to mention it. So I am trying to wrap my mind around this.

So it's totally just head canon at this point until something is specifically told to us by Bioware, but I imagine that spirits could choose to manifest in a form of any age they might wish. Or after they become more solid, they need training and are assigned to someone to guide them through the process.

 

All ancient elves were once spirits - in fact, it's likely that all living sentient beings were spirits once, or are still spirits in a sense (Solas does say to Lavellan that "he sees what she truly is" and that "she has a rare and marvelous spirit").

 

The difference between people like Solas (or Cole) and mortals is that Thedosians simply don't remember it. I think it may as well be the reason for mortality to actually be an issue - they lose memories, or don't have enough of them to preserve their sense of identity.

 

Anyway - nothing stops Solas from being a spirit AND then growing up in a village somewhere. We do know that Cole has a lot of his own growing up to do after he manifests outside of the Fade, and he does a lot of it in Skyhold.

I think you have hit on an important factor...memory....does the spirit remember enough, or have a will strong enough to live on. When I started my fanfic I wanted to do something different, and explore parts of the story that hadn't been given as much information as we (I'd) like. Spirits and immortality are some of those ideas that I wanted to expand on. Cara as a displaced ancient elf that had found her way home was just the beginning of her journey. I'm finally getting into just what it might have been like to be elvhen, and just who she really is. 

 

The conversation you guys started couldn't have been timed more perfect to help me put all my thoughts on it into words.


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#145786
FernRain

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Theory! If spirits can rebirth by remembering their nature, the Forgotten Ones are in trouble. Aaaand that's why they, or the Elvhen, unlocked the body-jumping blight-immortality.



#145787
midnight tea

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I definitely hold with those who think Solas is and was a primarily real being. He identifies with the spirits and spirit world, but to me, his being at his core any other being type weakens the main plotline. I don't think his conflict is spirit vs. real. I think it's simply that he is facing a world in which there is no longer a distinction between benevolent or malevolent spirit beings who cross from the Fade. I don't think his intense empathy makes him one of them.

 

I think it's a somewhat flawed way of seeing things, given what we managed to uncover in DAI or Trespasser - it's not spirit versus real person: it appears that at a time there was a world where there wasn't much distinction between the two, just like there is technically not much distinction between spirit and demon. 

 

One can become another, or can be both, in a way at least. I think this is the secret to ancient way of living, and perhaps elvhen immortality. There's waking and dreaming world, but before the Veil, there wasn't so much distinction between them both - a lot of things were fluid, including people.

 

The problem with modern Thedas appears to be that things have become too "rigid" now - the forms and minds of people became too rigid and unchanging, while on the other side of the Veil things became way too fleeting and unstable. This is why to beings from both worlds the opposite side seems so wrong and alien.

 

So wrong and alien in fact that if a spirit gets violently pulled through the rift or ritual, they change into demons - because they don't understand the world around them and it warps them. The same way if mortals find themselves physically in the Fade (without the protection of magic like the Anchor) they die; because it's the same for them. They don't understand the Fade anymore, just like spirits don't understand the waking world.

 

There's even a codex that explains that the problem with the Veil is that it isn't really a physical barrier, but an idea that messes with both sides' perception - http://dragonage.wik...entry:_The_Veil  - so the issue with what's "real" and "not" appears to be predominantly in people's head.

 

Spoiler

 

Conclusion? When Solas rips the Veil apart many mortals will likely be unable to deal with a sudden shift of perception and that will annihilate them; with their forms falling apart and their spirits being cleansed of past identities and released into the Fade. After initial chaos, the world will be re-balanced - melded together back again - and eventually the beings the like of ancient elves will eventually repopulate the world restored to its original state.


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#145788
midnight tea

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Theory! If spirits can rebirth by remembering their nature, the Forgotten Ones are in trouble. Aaaand that's why they, or the Elvhen, unlocked the body-jumping blight-immortality.

 

I don't think it's just Forgotten Ones are on trouble - gutting people/spirits out of their memory appears to be a way to enslave them, which is likely what Evanuris did.

 

After all, we have this very cryptic elvhen 'grafitti" that appears from time to time, which shows elves, marching in line, seemingly defeated or subdued, sporting red vallaslin on faces and shoulders and with their hearts and minds hollowed out.

 

egr_by_midnighttea7-d96vylm.jpg


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#145789
FernRain

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Yeah you're right. That painting went along with the Sinner paintings so they're likely connected.

 

There goes the mysterious sun again too, *suspicion intensifies*..



#145790
CapricornSun

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I just arrived home and I just wanted to say that I've finally got the physical copy Game of the Year edition of DAI for my PS4. :D

(EDIT: Now I can finally play The Descent and Trespasser DLCs!)

Spoiler

 

Also, I got some DAI deluxe playing cards but I was disappointed that there's no Solas card in it. :crying:

Spoiler

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#145791
NightSymphony

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YAY Sunny!!  Now your Tala can get her heart broken all over again. :P

 

I didn't get Solas in my card deck either.  :(  Did anyone?


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#145792
ladyiolanthe

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I discussed it once or twice on this thread - personally I bet for Hope. They're one of the rarest benevolent spirits.

 

Faith is rare as well (btw. Faith can be corrupted into Pride demon too), but Faith is likely Cass, or Leliana (or both).

 

Hope would be the best, as far as my Lavellan is concerned.   :)

 

So, here's something to think about...  I took Solas to Mythal's temple with me. At the end when everyone is trying to decide what to do about the well, Solas argues not to let Morrigan drink it.  Since my Inquisitor was an elf, she chose to drink it herself. When I got back to Skyhold, Solas was furious with me. He said he begged me not to do it; now I've bound myself to some ancient elven god, etc..  Stuff you'd expect from him based on what he's said about gods, his views on slavery, etc. up to this point in game. I was, however, kind of surprised by his rage because he didn't actually beg me not to do it; he was only telling me not to let Morrigan do it.

 

Anyway... fast forward to Trespasser. Where he says a very nice thing about Mythal. She was the best of the Evanuris, she protected and guided her people. Now, setting the binding aside, why would he have been so angry about my Inquisitor binding herself to Mythal If he had such high opinions of Mythal?

 

Do you suppose that was Mythal praising herself?

 

Then when he says that the Evanuris killing Mythal was the reason he rose against them, he chuckles, then says that an eternity of torment is the only fitting punishment for them. Was it Solas chuckling bitterly because he himself deserves that eternity of torment for absorbing the last bit of Mythal's spirit, or was it Mythal chuckling because she's pulled the wool over our Inquisitor's eyes?  Our poor Inquisitors, of course, don't know that something significant transpired between Solas and Mythal after the final battle with Corypheus.



#145793
midnight tea

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Hope would be the best, as far as my Lavellan is concerned.   :)

 

So, here's something to think about...  I took Solas to Mythal's temple with me. At the end when everyone is trying to decide what to do about the well, Solas argues not to let Morrigan drink it.  Since my Inquisitor was an elf, she chose to drink it herself. When I got back to Skyhold, Solas was furious with me. He said he begged me not to do it; now I've bound myself to some ancient elven god, etc..  Stuff you'd expect from him based on what he's said about gods, his views on slavery, etc. up to this point in game. I was, however, kind of surprised by his rage because he didn't actually beg me not to do it; he was only telling me not to let Morrigan do it.

 

Anyway... fast forward to Trespasser. Where he says a very nice thing about Mythal. She was the best of the Evanuris, she protected and guided her people. If he had such high opinions of Mythal, why would he have been so angry about my Inquisitor binding herself to Mythal back at the Temple?

 

Do you suppose that was Mythal praising herself?

 

Then when he says that the Evanuris killing Mythal was the reason he rose against them, he chuckles, then says that an eternity of torment is the only fitting punishment for them. Was it Solas chuckling bitterly because he himself deserves that eternity of torment for absorbing the last bit of Mythal's spirit, or was it Mythal chuckling because she's pulled the wool over our Inquisitor's eyes?  Our poor Inquisitors, of course, don't know that something significant transpired between Solas and Mythal after the final battle with Corypheus.

 

Nah - just because Solas is friends with Mythal* doesn't mean that he wants anyone to bind themselves to her, Evanuris-style. He is very much for personal freedom after all, and the concept of Evanuris themselves and what they've done to bind people to them goes very much against this. Mythal herself seemed to have been secretly fighting against other Evanuris, likely trying to tear the faulty system from the inside, but her plans were thwarted when she herself got killed.

 

*(according to the devs Solas' feelings for Mythal are 'complicated' - and if it resembles anything like the bond between Justinia and Leliana, or relationship between Flemeth and Morrigan, then yeah, it's definitely complicated)


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#145794
CapricornSun

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Art post. :P

 

Pulchra Tenebris, Part 26.

 

Gorgeous artwork of Solas and Lavellan kissing in the Emerald Graves by salesman. <3

 

A Slow Arrow by nipuni. (Trespasser Solas. :( )

 

Gorgeous color study of Solas by kallielef.

 

Solavellan for the kiss meme by kallielef. Kiss on the stomach. (Slightly NSFW)

 

Solas and Lavellan in gold.

 

Lavellan's favorite dessert: Gogosi or sugary filled donuts. (Solavellan)

 

Solas and Lavellan still care for each other...even when each is on the opposing side of the conflict. 

 

Solas and Lavellan sleeping in bed.  ^_^

 

Part 2 of this comic. Lavellan will only give back Solas' shirt if he kisses her on the lips.

(Well, he does kiss her on the lips alright... *cough* Sort of NSFW. :blush: ) 

 

Solas and Lavellan wrapped in scarves. :)

 

Couch sledding! Poor Solas. :P (GIF. Starring Lavellan, Sera, and Solas)


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#145795
CapricornSun

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YAY Sunny!!  Now your Tala can get her heart broken all over again. :P

 

I didn't get Solas in my card deck either.  :(  Did anyone?

 

I know! I don't know whether to feel scared or excited about seeing her get heartbroken. xD I'm going to take soooooo many screenshots and even record some videos. :P


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#145796
NightSymphony

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I know! I don't know whether to feel scared or excited about seeing her get heartbroken. xD I'm going to take soooooo many screenshots and even record some videos. :P

hehehe...I can't wait to see them all!!!


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#145797
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I just arrived home and I just wanted to say that I've finally got the physical copy Game of the Year edition of DAI for my PS4. :D

Spoiler

 

Also, I got some DAI deluxe playing cards but I was disappointed that there's no Solas card in it. :crying:

Spoiler

YAY!!! Have fun taking screen shots. :D


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#145798
Eivuwan

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Is anyone else becoming so distanced from the game that they don't care if Solas destroys everything? I'm getting a little tired of this theme of the protagonist being the good guy who has to redeem/stop Solas. Let's destroy everything together or have Solas be the one who was actually in the right.


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#145799
Ellawynn

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While I do think that Solas was once a spirit there is his dialogue at haven where he says he grew up in a village to the north. I don't think this is a lie, he did not even have to mention it. So I am trying to wrap my mind around this.

 

Spoilered because this was a lot more wall of text-y than I thought...

 

 

Spoiler

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#145800
Illyria

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Is anyone else becoming so distanced from the game that they don't care if Solas destroys everything? I'm getting a little tired of this theme of the protagonist being the good guy who has to redeem/stop Solas. Let's destroy everything together or have Solas be the one who was actually in the right.

 

To be honest, I'm moving on from DAI in general.