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[IHaveReturned1999]

...Yes? And? Given that bringing Solas to the Fade doesn't suddenly summon the Evanuris, I'm assuming just being there won't bring them to him. They're probably more locked up than that, and he seems to want to release them anyway.
 
What I mean is - if Solas' goal were truly to simply give elves back their magic, he could do that already. He doesn't need a Veilless world precisely - he just needs a place where the Fade is closer. And what's closer than the Fade itself, or a neighboring pocket realm? He could theoretically rebuild Elvhenan and regain elven magic by settling in the inter-dimensional woodwork, no Apocalypse required. He could probably help the spirits too that way - they'd be drawn to the new society, hopefully redirecting some attention away from the physical world.
 
But he doesn't. Why do you think that is?
 
...To spell it out, it's because I don't think his goal is as simple as bringing back the past. Although I am curious as to what would actually happen if someone tried to settle the Crossroads/Vir Dirthara.

Did you even listen what the man said? "I would save the elven people even if this world must die." It pretty much simplifies things of death and destruction.

[DreamerM]

Thing I noticed: if you bring Solas into the Fade, he says he never thought to be there physically, and then says, "look, the Black City, almost close enough to touch..."

I thought that was a weird thing to latch on to. Why the Black City? What is the Black City to Solas? The Chantry says it's the (vacant) seat of the Maker, but I have a hard time imagining Solas subscribes to that view. Of all the wonders of the Fade, why is the Black City the one he finds himself reaching for?

I wish we'd been able to ask him.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

Well. I understand how you might come to this conclusion, but really, everything ever going wrong with the thedas we know was because of what he did as an elvhen hero to try to protect the weak ones. He barely woke up "yesterday" to discover how everything really turned out. Everybody as "not being people" mean they feel empty, as merely shadows of what they used to be and literally every single thing is super messed up now. That's a nightmare to him. And we don't know it yet but the world is probablyon its way to DOOM either way but that's still speculation.

 

I can't see any of this as simply elvhen supremacist. But I can understand how other people might, because these morals are a touchy subject.

Ellawyn said " I'm not one of those people who somehow came to the conclusion that Solas is some sort of elven supremacist who wants to destroy all non-elves out of sheer hatred." Just to make sure we're all on the same page here.

 

As for the idea of settling the crossroads, if the Crossroads are degenerating due to a lack of maintenance (which I believe is hinted at in TME?) then they might not be suitable to settle in. And Solas may not know how to create new ones or be able to maintain old pockets on his own. He's old and he's smart, but he doesn't necessarily know everything magical. For all we know, that was June's area of expertise or something.

[Amburu]

Ellawyn said " I'm not one of those people who somehow came to the conclusion that Solas is some sort of elven supremacist who wants to destroy all non-elves out of sheer hatred." Just to make sure we're all on the same page here.

 

Aaah I'm sorry ! Obvious missreading. The final dlc was almost one year ago and there's still so much debate about all these things it's amazing !

 

Thing I noticed: if you bring Solas into the Fade, he says he never thought to be there physically, and then says, "look, the Black City, almost close enough to touch..."

I thought that was a weird thing to latch on to. Why the Black City? What is the Black City to Solas? The Chantry says it's the (vacant) seat of the Maker, but I have a hard time imagining Solas subscribes to that view. Of all the wonders of the Fade, why is the Black City the one he finds himself reaching for?

I wish we'd been able to ask him.

 

There is definitely something up with the black city. But it's all speculations for now. Prison of the Evanuris ? Where lies the true source of the blight ? Ancient Arlathan ? Whatever it is it was already corrupted when Cory got there.

 

About being physically in the fade, I think spirits would have been "spiritually" in the fade and the physical world back in the time, but other beings would stay in the physical part and only dream in the Fade, but without the two dimensions being clearly separated... wow I don't think I managed to make any sense. That could be where the climax of the DA series is going to take place. It has always been such a huge deal since the very first game

[Inkvisiittori]

I wish we'd been able to ask him.

 

There was so many times in the game I wanted to ask questions but there was no option...

[Ellawynn]

Did you even listen what the man said? "I would save the elven people even if this world must die." It pretty much simplifies things of death and destruction.

 

...Oh, you meant the "endless cycle of destruction" comment. Clarification is your friend, you know. At the very least, only quote the part of the post that you're responding to.

 

And my issue with that comment is the "endless" bit. And the "cycle" bit, since cycles tend to be endless. Like, Solas' plan includes a lot of destruction, no question. But endless and cyclical destruction? That's the nonsense part.

[Amburu]

...... To their defense... Every one of Solas's plans came as complete disasters, so it could actually turn into cycle of destruction

Let's believe

[midnight tea]

...... To their defense... Every one of Solas's plans came as complete disasters, so it could actually turn into cycle of destruction

Let's believe

 

That's not exactly correct. 

 

His plan to start a rebellion to rescue slaves? Worked. As did his plan to save the world from whatever Evanuris has planned. His plan to infiltrate Inquisition and help Inky save the world? Worked. His plan to lure Inky behind eluvians to investigate Qunari sneaky-invasion and effectively save Inquisition and the South? It has worked pretty well.

 

So no, it's not really all disasters. Then there's a fact that a lot of miscalculations or unforeseeable consequences could be attributed to Solas fighting against tremendous odds. Like, we can't really say if Solas knew all the consequences of creating the Veil - question is what would happen if it wouldn't create it? If it's indeed true that every other alternative he looked into was worse, or the consequences were far more dire, then even if the Veil had *disastrous effects*, those effects are still preferable to utter destruction.

[IHaveReturned1999]

...... To their defense... Every one of Solas's plans came as complete disasters, so it could actually turn into cycle of destruction
Let's believe

Touché!

[Amburu]

That's not exactly correct. 

 

His plan to start a rebellion to rescue slaves? Worked. As did his plan to save the world from whatever Evanuris has planned. His plan to infiltrate Inquisition and help Inky save the world? Worked. His plan to lure Inky behind eluvians to investigate Qunari sneaky-invasion and effectively save Inquisition and the South? It has worked pretty well.

 

So no, it's not really all disasters. Then there's a fact that a lot of miscalculations or unforeseeable consequences could be attributed to Solas fighting against tremendous odds. Like, we can't really say if Solas knew all the consequences of creating the Veil - question is what would happen if it wouldn't create it? If it's indeed true that every other alternative he looked into was worse, or the consequences were far more dire, then even if the Veil had *disastrous effects*, those effects are still preferable to utter destruction.

 

Alright I was half joking of course. I think exactly the same way, but really everything he did backfired to his face I feel so bad for him, he only wanted to help and now all that's left is this overwhelming guilt about every single thing going wrong, my empathy is killing me.

 

Part of the tragic is that the Weil certainly appeared as a fine solution, I wonder if it was still worth it after seing the results, maybe it is. It could be, if the Evanuris squad was about to destroy the world or other dreadful ancient elvhen god stuff, but it still probably weights way too much on him to be the sole responsible for all the consequences. Saying "you didn't have a choice so don't worry about that nothing else was to be done" won't have much impact in my opinion. Idk, that's interesting. The feels keep getting stronger

But we can't keep the veil anyway, so what he should do now that he managed to tell us about him would be to gather as many help as possible to face what's coming next, finding other solutions, or at least a back-up plan, and also some support with what he intends to do about the evanuris getting released. If all these things are bound to happen, better take them on all together to secure a somehow not-so-terrible path towards an acceptable future for everyone (that was hard to word, alright)

 

I might have missed your point but I hope it's not so far away

[rowrow]

There is always a choice. He could simply gather all elves to the eluvians and go to another place where they could start over and never come back, and that would be a simple solution better than chaotic event that would be an endless cycle of death and destruction.

 

His aim is not to save the modern elves of Thedas. He wants to bring back a world in which people can live without the influence of The Veil.

 

And Solas is a guy who explores all the choices he thinks are available to him, exhaustively. I'm not defending his plan, just your characterisation of him. Do I think he should find another way? Heck yes. The only thing I dispute is this 'heartless intellectual' stuff, like he just decided to burn down the world because that was the first thing he could think of. That might make it easier to hate on him, but it's not how the character is written.

[BloodKaiden]

His aim is not to save the modern elves of Thedas. He wants to bring back a world in which people can live without the influence of The Veil.

At the expense of throwing Thedas into turmoil yet again, let's not forget that little detail. I love Solas, I think he is a complex and ultimately broken individual who feels like a great weight is on his shoulders. I just don't believe he has the right to make such a decision for all of Thedas when how things currently are is what the world evolved into.

[rowrow]

At the expense of throwing Thedas into turmoil yet again, let's not forget that little detail. I love Solas, I think he is a complex and ultimately broken individual who feels like a great weight is on his shoulders. I just don't believe he has the right to make such a decision for all of Thedas when how things currently are is what the world evolved into.

 

Agreed, pretty much.

[rowrow]

Thing I noticed: if you bring Solas into the Fade, he says he never thought to be there physically, and then says, "look, the Black City, almost close enough to touch..."

I thought that was a weird thing to latch on to. Why the Black City? What is the Black City to Solas? The Chantry says it's the (vacant) seat of the Maker, but I have a hard time imagining Solas subscribes to that view. Of all the wonders of the Fade, why is the Black City the one he finds himself reaching for?

I wish we'd been able to ask him.

 

I didn't think it was weird, at the time. The Black City and all the lore surrounding it has been enormously influential from a cultural standpoint. Even if Solas doesn't subscribe to those beliefs, said beliefs have still shaped modern Thedas' history tremendously, and that would certainly have been of great interest to him, as one of history's chief agents.

 

Not saying it doesn't have some greater personal significance for him, but I didn't find it so odd for him to comment on it.

 

Hmm.  Come to think of it, what do the Qun and Dalish beliefs say about the Black City? No matter what culture a mage is from, it is the one constant to be found in the Fade.

[IHaveReturned1999]

At the expense of throwing Thedas into turmoil yet again, let's not forget that little detail. I love Solas, I think he is a complex and ultimately broken individual who feels like a great weight is on his shoulders. I just don't believe he has the right to make such a decision for all of Thedas when how things currently are is what the world evolved into.

And he's stupid for screwing a relationship with Lavellan from the start, he should see this as a sign to start over with someone who loves him. If he only follow his heart he wouldn't be in this predicament.

[Inkvisiittori]

At the expense of throwing Thedas into turmoil yet again, let's not forget that little detail. I love Solas, I think he is a complex and ultimately broken individual who feels like a great weight is on his shoulders. I just don't believe he has the right to make such a decision for all of Thedas when how things currently are is what the world evolved into.

 

Reminds me of what Cassandra said about the Seekers (who Solas seems to respect, at least somewhat): "... that kind of power is troubling. You begin to think you are the only one who can solve this world's problems."

 

Solas probably sees that as this world only exists because of his mistake, it is also his responsibility to fix it. 

[rowrow]

Reminds me of what Cassandra said about the Seekers (who Solas seems to respect, at least somewhat): "... that kind of power is troubling. You begin to think you are the only one who can solve this world's problems."

 

Solas probably sees that as this world only exists because of his mistake, it is also his responsibility to fix it. 

 

I've always thought was the perfect quote for Solas, and I love how that's been one of the recurring themes in DA.

 

His chief flaw really is right there in his name. Pride takes a different form in Solas than it does in Corypheus, but it's still there in no small amount. He really does think it's up to him to solve the problem (singular) of the world as it is. I believe his fundamental impulse has always been noble - to free others - but he's much too willing to gamble lives on his not being wrong about how to go about it.

 

And of course the eternal downside of thinking you're personally responsible for the well-being of the world is the crushing and inescapable guilt when you fail to materialise your perfect world, to control every variable to satisfaction. The question is, how much is he going to destroy before he gets that?

[CapricornSun]

Art post.

 

 

Solas getting a bloody nose by the amazing nipuni!   Scene from the modern AU fic Schooling Pride.

Spoiler

Source: http://nipuni.tumblr...r-fic-schooling

 

Solas with a bloody nose sulking in the car with Sylaise driving, from Schooling Pride.

Spoiler

Source: http://fadetonguedon...-i-needed-solas

 

Some speedpaint art of Solas' head by fenrirsruthlessrose.

Spoiler

Source: https://fenrirsruthl...-a-couple-hours

 

Solas watercolor art.

Spoiler

Source: http://missolive23.t...st/147962013259

 

Some Solavellan hell goodness...

Spoiler

Source: http://valalin.tumbl...t-and-this-yeah

 

Sylaise (Lavellan's past life in this artist's personal headcanon) tricking Fen'Harel out of his enchanted wolf skin by pretending to be cold.

Spoiler

Source: http://solavellangar...e-about-sylaise

 

Solas and Lavellan

Spoiler

Source: http://wiredraw.tumb...ro-i-wanna-be-a

 

'Happily Ever After... May the Dread Wolf Take You.'

Spoiler

Source: http://entro-pie.tum...maziiing-i-cant

[Solas]

I didn't think it was weird, at the time. The Black City and all the lore surrounding it has been enormously influential from a cultural standpoint. Even if Solas doesn't subscribe to those beliefs, said beliefs have still shaped modern Thedas' history tremendously, and that would certainly have been of great interest to him, as one of history's chief agents.

 

Not saying it doesn't have some greater personal significance for him, but I didn't find it so odd for him to comment on it.

 

Hmm.  Come to think of it, what do the Qun and Dalish beliefs say about the Black City? No matter what culture a mage is from, it is the one constant to be found in the Fade.

The Dalish hold that at the center of the Beyond lies the Eternal City, where their gods are trapped.

[Ellawynn]

I didn't think it was weird, at the time. The Black City and all the lore surrounding it has been enormously influential from a cultural standpoint. Even if Solas doesn't subscribe to those beliefs, said beliefs have still shaped modern Thedas' history tremendously, and that would certainly have been of great interest to him, as one of history's chief agents.

 

Not saying it doesn't have some greater personal significance for him, but I didn't find it so odd for him to comment on it.

 

Hmm.  Come to think of it, what do the Qun and Dalish beliefs say about the Black City? No matter what culture a mage is from, it is the one constant to be found in the Fade.

 

I don't think we've ever gotten solid lore on what the Qunari believe about the Fade - if Bull is anything to go by, they might hold largely the same opinions, with an extra dose of "it's all screwed up never go there." (And, I mean, presumably they don't believe the Black City is the Maker's abandoned throne.) But then maybe Bull was never informed of the full extent of the Qunari's knowledge since he probably wouldn't need it.

 

If I had to guess? I'd say that the Qunari are either so wary and frightened of the Fade and they know even less than the Circles do, or they're so hell-bent on neutralizing it that they've studied it more than the Tevinters and probably have a lot more solid information than anyone else on the Black City.

 

But the fact that Dalish lore also talks of a City in the Fade where the gods hang out is another tick in the "Arlathan's the Golden City" column for me.

[rowrow]

The Dalish hold that at the center of the Beyond lies the Eternal City, where their gods are trapped.

 

So the Black City might be where Solas stashed the Evanuris?  I can't decide if I want that to be true or not. I personally don't want the Blight to have originated from the Black City either. If both those things are true ... man, that's not good for Solas.

 

I don't think we've ever gotten solid lore on what the Qunari believe about the Fade - if Bull is anything to go by, they might hold largely the same opinions, with an extra dose of "it's all screwed up never go there." (And, I mean, presumably they don't believe the Black City is the Maker's abandoned throne.) But then maybe Bull was never informed of the full extent of the Qunari's knowledge since he probably wouldn't need it.

 

If I had to guess? I'd say that the Qunari are either so wary and frightened of the Fade and they know even less than the Circles do, or they're so hell-bent on neutralizing it that they've studied it more than the Tevinters and probably have a lot more solid information than anyone else on the Black City.

 

 

Yeah, the Qunari probably don't believe it's the Maker's abandoned throne. But like the Chantry and the Dalish, they might still see the Black City as sort some of ultimate mystery or spiritual frontier - beyond which lies either salvation or the origin of all things Bad. And what would the Qunari version of that be, I wonder? Pure chaos and ignorance, perhaps.

 

Or maybe they're much more level-headed about it and it's just an interesting anomaly that everyone else is being incredibly silly about.

 

As to how the Qunari would study the Fade. I'd think that their extreme distrust of mages, even their own, would be a hindrance to that sort of study. For every Qunari mage in the Fade there's probably like fifty Tevinters running around in there at the same time. On the other hand, anything those Qunari put their mind to tends to see impressive results. I imagine they'd take a more scientific approach to the whole thing. And they definitely wouldn't be inclined to share what they know with the less 'civilised'.

[Solas]

I don't think we've ever gotten solid lore on what the Qunari believe about the Fade - if Bull is anything to go by, they might hold largely the same opinions, with an extra dose of "it's all screwed up never go there." (And, I mean, presumably they don't believe the Black City is the Maker's abandoned throne.) But then maybe Bull was never informed of the full extent of the Qunari's knowledge since he probably wouldn't need it.
 
If I had to guess? I'd say that the Qunari are either so wary and frightened of the Fade and they know even less than the Circles do, or they're so hell-bent on neutralizing it that they've studied it more than the Tevinters and probably have a lot more solid information than anyone else on the Black City.

The Qunari think of it as The Land of the Dead and the Qun forbids going there. The Qunari also claim that they don't dream the way elves and humans do. short snippets, lore on that very thin on the ground

[Solas]

wanting to update the OP but it's doing that thing again where when I go to edit mode the code listed there is a really old version of the thread 

[rowrow]

The Qunari think of it as The Land of the Dead and the Qun forbids going there. The Qunari also claim that they don't dream the way elves and humans do. short snippets, lore on that very thin on the ground

 

Forbids going to the Fade, or the Black City?

[Solas]

Forbids going to the Fade, or the Black City?

Fade, says nothing on BC specifically