205 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Master of Orion]

In Redcliffe Sten is actually aghast at the prospect of women not fighting when their backs are to the wall.

[RenAdaar]

brocialists? can some one tell me what this means? lol it doesn't really sound like a real word

 

and if it totally is a real word please have mercy on my soul

[leaguer of one]

When did I do that? It has different branches, which have ranks in between them.

 

I said that the Ariqun and Tamassran aren't part of the Ben Hassrath.

Let me restat it. The quote you got from David Gaider stated they priest don't really have ranks. Nothing indicates they have branchs in the prist hood.

[HiroVoid]

brocialists? can some one tell me what this means? lol it doesn't really sound like a real word

 

and if it totally is a real word please have mercy on my soul

 

Pretty sure it's supposed to be mocking the term 'bro' often associated with jocks, frats, etc. with socialists to make the Qunari society come off as misynogistic.

[leaguer of one]

"Women are priests.  Or merchants. [etc.] None of those have any place fighting."

The Ben-Hassrath are priest who fight some times to enforce the qun.

[RenAdaar]

Pretty sure it's supposed to be mocking the term 'bro' often associated with jocks, frats, etc. with socialists to make the Qunari society come off as misynogistic.

Ah thanks for the info I thought that was an actual thing for a sec there.  

[General TSAR]

Nope, pragmatists.

 

Men are the easily expendable gender, women are not.

[leaguer of one]

Ah thanks for the info I thought that was an actual thing for a sec there.  

I wonder the same thing when I first saw the topic. I facepalm when I found out it was just slang for a patrilocal societies.

[leaguer of one]

Nope, pragmatists.

 

Men are the easily expendable gender, women are not.

Both genders are expendable.

[Sporothrix]

I don't think the Qunari would even see it as power in the traditional sense.  Leaders would just be people most adept at organizing and motivating people, a role to be fulfilled.  I don't think they would considered patriarchal or matriarchal no matter who had "power".    They're like a combination of communism and  theocracy coming together into a single massive ashhole shittlng all over everything.

 

In fact, it's complete antithesis of communism, as communism is egalitarian and state-less system (all "communist" states stopped on pre-communist "state-socialism" stage which according to theory was supposed to dismantle the government, but that of course never happened, and it never had much to do with the political doctrine).

 

All those pep talks that all groups in Qunari society are of the same importance sound very similar to remarks about different classes in feudal Europe. And probably, are just as sincere.

[General TSAR]

Both genders are expendable.

Missed my point. 

[leaguer of one]

Missed my point. 

No. Your point is just wrong. Both genders are expendable. Every qunari is a tool in the eyes of the qun. And it that tool is require to be disposed to get to a desired end then it's disposed. Gender has nothing to do with it.

[The Hierophant]

That op was awful. +reps for Jedi Master of Orion's responses.

[General TSAR]

No. Your point is just wrong. Both genders are expendable. Every qunari is a tool in the eyes of the qun. And it that tool is require to be disposed to get to a desired end then it's disposed. Gender has nothing to do with it.

Yeah that's why they allow women to be frontline soldi......oh wait. 

 

You're not thinking in terms of Perpetual Warfare.

[Sjofn]

Its a fact that men and women are equal, mentally. And that men are superior physically. Men have more muscle and less required bodyfat% and that's just how it goes. Its not sexist, its nature.

 

I am so sick and tired of dudes saying this. Look. I'm 5'11" and fairly athletic. There are many fine men in the world who would be less suited to getting into a fight than I am. A dude is not automatically better suited to fighting by virtue of simply being a dude. That they on average might be does not mean "women shouldn't allowed to fight, ever, because ~averages~" makes any freaking sense. Averages stop being useful when you're talking about individuals. That's why Sten being all "wtf ur a woman" is, indeed, sexist. My character is clearly a woman who can handle herself in a fight and has the physical capabilities to fight. Her lack of dudeness shouldn't enter into it.

 

I mean hell, I do kendo. Men fight women in kendo all the time, and no one bats an eye, and no one thinks the men have an auto-advantage, because they don't. There is a huge range of body types, and you can never tell who is going to be super good versus who is not going to be so good just from looking at them.

[Sporothrix]

No. Your point is just wrong. Both genders are expendable. Every qunari is a tool in the eyes of the qun. And it that tool is require to be disposed to get to a desired end then it's disposed. Gender has nothing to do with it.

 

I think that you focus too much in this discussion on official line (or your interpretation of official line, of that supposed "equality" and importance of different groups). Similar things could be said about the Chantry (remember Sebastian's talk with Tallis?).

 

Basically, almost every religious or political doctrine tries to paint itself as fair, and usually does it by referring in some way to equality, even if they are not egalitarian per se, as the need for equality seems to be connected with basic human understanding of justice (there was a study which showed that even right wing voters wished for much more egalitarian society - in terms of wealth distribution - than it really is for now, which they didn't know BTW).

[General TSAR]

And here we go....

[leaguer of one]

Yeah that's why they allow women to be frontline soldi......oh wait. 

 

You're not thinking in terms of Perpetual Warfare.

That's a case of situation and efficiency. The qun is not just about warfare it's about order and efficiency. If they are in a situation that have to depose of non fighters to be more efficient, they would do it.

[General TSAR]

That's a case of situation and efficiency. The qun is not just about warfare it's about order and efficiency. If they are in a situation that have to depose of non fighters to be more efficient, they would do it.

In Qunari Culture, Women serve as religious leaders, merchants, farmers/labors, agents, ect. But they all have an arguably more important position : breeding vessels to replenish losses of the Bolshevik Horde.

[leaguer of one]

I think that you focus too much in this discussion on official line (or your interpretation of official line, of that supposed "equality" and importance of different groups). Similar things could be said about the Chantry (remember Sebastian's talk with Tallis?).

 

Basically, almost every religious or political doctrine tries to paint itself as fair, and usually does it by referring in some way to equality, even if they are not egalitarian per se, as the need for equality seems to be connected with basic human understanding of justice (there was a study which showed that even right wing voters wished for much more egalitarian society - in terms of wealth distribution - than it really is for now, which they didn't know BTW).

I'm not saying the qunari are truelly equal. I'm saying the qunari are truly efficient. Those are two different things. The qunari don not care about gender, the about the abilities and fault of each gender and individual and place a role based on it. Anyone in the qun is disposable despite their role. Heck, look at what happen to the Arishok, they basically through him away if he does not get the sacred book he was after.

[leaguer of one]

In Qunari Culture, Women serve as Religious leaders, merchants, farmers, agents, and arguably as important breeding vessels to replenish losses of the Bolshevik Horde.

And that does not mean they are less disposable. It's based on situation.

[Sporothrix]

 

I am so sick and tired of dudes saying this. Look. I'm 5'11" and fairly athletic. There are many fine men in the world who would be less suited to getting into a fight than I am. A dude is not automatically better suited to fighting by virtue of simply being a dude. That they on average might be does not mean "women shouldn't allowed to fight, ever, because ~averages~" makes any freaking sense. Averages stop being useful when you're talking about individuals. That's why Sten being all "wtf ur a woman" is, indeed, sexist. My character is clearly a woman who can handle herself in a fight and has the physical capabilities to fight. Her lack of dudeness shouldn't enter into it.

 

I mean hell, I do kendo. Men fight women in kendo all the time, and no one bats an eye, and no one thinks the men have an auto-advantage, because they don't. There is a huge range of body types, and you can never tell who is going to be super good versus who is not going to be so good just from looking at them.

 

Yep, and that argument about the "nature" always made me wonder why people who use it never actually look how it is in Nature. Among lions, it's females that hunt, even though sexual dimorphism is much more pronounced in them than among humans (meaning that females are much smaller and less strong than males). Speaking of sexual dimorphism, humans actually have it the least of all great apes.

Could you guys bring any example of animal in which females don't fight? Even if in most mammals females are smaller and weaker than males (though, for example in spotted hyenas it's reversed, and of course, in different classes of animals it could be entirely different, like spiders for example).

[General TSAR]

And that does not mean they are less disposable. It's based on situation.

They are not disposable enough to be frontline warriors.

 

Keep trying to deny that. 

[leaguer of one]

 

I am so sick and tired of dudes saying this. Look. I'm 5'11" and fairly athletic. There are many fine men in the world who would be less suited to getting into a fight than I am. A dude is not automatically better suited to fighting by virtue of simply being a dude. That they on average might be does not mean "women shouldn't allowed to fight, ever, because ~averages~" makes any freaking sense. Averages stop being useful when you're talking about individuals. That's why Sten being all "wtf ur a woman" is, indeed, sexist. My character is clearly a woman who can handle herself in a fight and has the physical capabilities to fight. Her lack of dudeness shouldn't enter into it.

 

I mean hell, I do kendo. Men fight women in kendo all the time, and no one bats an eye, and no one thinks the men have an auto-advantage, because they don't. There is a huge range of body types, and you can never tell who is going to be super good versus who is not going to be so good just from looking at them.

And the qunari let able fighting women be part of the Ben-Hassrath. They just have the vast majority of men as the role as soldiers.

[leaguer of one]

They are not disposable enough to be frontline warriors.

 

Keep trying to deny that. 

It's not that they aren't disposable enough to be frontline warriors. They just see that they are not efficient as frontline warriors. Big difference. They see males more physically able then woman on the frontlines.