205 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

Who said anything about a military dominate society? I said religious conquest through military dominance. 

Ok then...Which both genders are equally disposable.

[Lady Nuggins]

I wonder if there's anything Qunari fans are willing to admit is wrong about the Qun. Or at least a bit off. Every faction and choice has it's downside in DA, but not the Qun apparently.

 

I just find them interesting.  Same reason that I find the dwarves interesting, even though their caste system is vile.  But I usually find myself defending them, because people seem inclined to label all qunari society 100% terrible while pretty much every other part of Thedas is full of slavers, murderers, Templars, and blood mages.  I think societies are way too complex to brand them as absolutely right or wrong.

[General TSAR]

Ok then...Which both genders are equally disposable.

Wrong. 

[leaguer of one]

Man... wouldn't it suck if you were like.. a merry bard or drunk wallop player. Then the Qunari come in and force you to be a farmer?

Qunari have bards too....Most of the woman but still.

[mikeymoonshine]

There's fighting professionally and then there's defending oneself.

 

But it contradicts the idea that Sten believed women should not fight at all. He even thought that non combat trained women should fight to protect their home. 

 

I'm not sure if his contradictory comments were a retconned mistake or deliberately meant to make the Qunari seem alien and confusing, maybe it was a bit of both. We also have to remember that Sten is not a priest or a scholar. He may not even fully understand his own values and beliefs the way the priesthood does. 

[Sporothrix]

 

 

Cool, now have them do the same while wearing 50 pounds of armor with sword plus shield and have them charge the awaiting enemy 200 meters away like the Athenians did at the battle of Marathon.

 

 

50 pounds? I believe equipment of modern female soldiers weights more. And don't forget Qunari women actually are bigger and probably stronger than most human males.

 

And as for the charge, overgrown muscles resulting in low speed and stamina would make Qunari males pant before they reach the positions, allowing the other side to easily shoot them off.

 

 

 

Yep that's why there are female Qunari Warriors serving on the frontlines....wait.

 

So all Qunari wars are on their own land and in defense? I spoke of long term exhaustion and issues with providing nourishment for those walls of muscles having negative impact on fighting ability.

[Doominike]

That's possible ^

 

As a soldier he may not know all the rules of the Qun to the letter, or he learned them all in "school" but only really remembers the parts that apply to him. And since he's in the army he thinks "the army fights+no women in the army=women don't fight"

[mikeymoonshine]

I wonder if there's anything Qunari fans are willing to admit is wrong about the Qun. Or at least a bit off. Every faction and choice has it's downside in DA, but not the Qun apparently.

 

I'm actually a fan of Tallis somewhat, just because she is willing to do it. She had doubts, she lacks certainty, she thinks they need to change. She's just someone looking for truth, Qunari or not.

 

I know a few people have expressed a desire to play as as a Qunari or someone sympathetic to the Qun but I don't think I have ever seen anyone say they would want to be part of it. Maybe there are some who would idk but it's not a common view. 

 

I find the Qunari very interesting but I do not support their views and I don't think any of my characters will. Maybe if I do an awful lot of playthroughs I might make one that does but it's not a priority for me.

[General TSAR]

50 pounds? I believe equipment of modern female soldiers weights more. And don't forget Qunari women actually are bigger and probably stronger than most human males.

 

As you wish 87-127 pounds for the ground pounder on patrol.

 

(many times minus 20-40 pounds because another tropper has to carry her weapon or tactical backpack due to her exhaustion according to my buddies in uniform from A'stan and the online military forum I am part of) 

And as for the charge, overgrown muscles resulting in low speed and stamina would make Qunari males pant before they reach the positions, allowing the other side to easily shoot them off.

The polar opposite happened in my example. 

 

So all Qunari wars are on their own land and in defense? I spoke of long term exhaustion and issues with providing nourishment for those walls of muscles having negative impact on fighting ability.

LOL.

 

The only reason the Qunari halted was due to the might of Thedas plus walking WMDs, not logistical problems.

[mikeymoonshine]

That's possible ^

 

As a soldier he may not know all the rules of the Qun to the letter, or he learned them all in "school" but only really remembers the parts that apply to him. And since he's in the army he thinks "the army fights+no women in the army=women don't fight"

 

Yeah, I am not saying that is the case because most Qunari seem very devoted to the Qun but it could be. People have inconsistencies in what they think and feel sometimes and people generally care more about what is relevant to them. Also, it doesn't seem like Qunari males and females generally spend much time around each other. 

[The Hierophant]

Wrong.

When you remember their philosophy on utilizing anything and everyone to maximum efficiency the Qunari soldiers are the only profession that'll come close to being considered disposable. Though in their rationale they'd consider their little soldier ant's sacrifice a job well done since it'll most likely ensure that the colony is able to continue on.

[Xilizhra]

I just find them interesting.  Same reason that I find the dwarves interesting, even though their caste system is vile.  But I usually find myself defending them, because people seem inclined to label all qunari society 100% terrible while pretty much every other part of Thedas is full of slavers, murderers, Templars, and blood mages.  I think societies are way too complex to brand them as absolutely right or wrong.

Well, qunari society is supposed to be a body, right? So if you're getting punched in the face by the physical arm, with the brain ordering it to continue punching you and various blood vessels supplying the arm with everything they need, you're not going to respond in your defense by trying to spare individual organs which might not have been directly involved in punching you.

[General TSAR]

When you remember their philosophy on utilizing anything and everyone to maximum efficiency the Qunari soldiers are the only profession that'll come close to being considered disposable. Though in their rationale they'd consider their little soldier ant's sacrifice a job well done since it'll most likely ensure that the colony is able to continue on.

That's a good point.

 

And ties in the apparent collective mind of the Qunari. 

[Sporothrix]

 

The polar opposite happened in my example. 

 

Qunari fought at the battle of Marathon? Or Qunari- (or if you prefer, Schwarzenegger-) looking humans? I don't think so.

 

 

LOL.

 

The only reason the Qunari halted was due to the might of Thedas plus walking WMDs, not logistical problems.

 

That, my friend, is because it's fantasy. Ever wondered why it's not any universal rule in animal world that bigger muscles and bigger mass = better in fight and survival?

[General TSAR]

Qunari fought at the battle of Marathon? Or Qunari- (or if you prefer, Schwarzenegger-) looking humans? I don't think so.

Unfortunately not, if so those Persians would have been slaughtered down to the last servant.

[leaguer of one]

Wrong. 

Not wrong. Every person is equally disposable in the qun. It's based on situation.

[General TSAR]

 

Not wrong. Every person is equally disposable in the qun. It's based on situation.

 

When you remember their philosophy on utilizing anything and everyone to maximum efficiency the Qunari soldiers are the only profession that'll come close to being considered disposable. Though in their rationale they'd consider their little soldier ant's sacrifice a job well done since it'll most likely ensure that the colony is able to continue on.

 

 

[Clockwork_Wings]

But it contradicts the idea that Sten believed women should not fight at all. He even thought that non combat trained women should fight to protect their home. 

 

I'm not sure if his contradictory comments were a retconned mistake or deliberately meant to make the Qunari seem alien and confusing, maybe it was a bit of both. We also have to remember that Sten is not a priest or a scholar. He may not even fully understand his own values and beliefs the way the priesthood does. 

Remember, he doesn't speak Fereldan well.  I think he meant that women aren't professional warriors, which wardens are.  They may see an able-bodied person sitting around and asking for help to be inefficient.

[leaguer of one]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look at the qunari's current actions. They are holding back their armies to restore them and using the Ben-Hassrath a weapon agents The counties of thedus outside of Tivintor. In the dlc MotA, the qunari were ready to allow a mass majority of their Ben-Hassrath spy's, who are both men and woman, be hunted and killed off.

It not soldier who are the most disposable, infact right now their goal is to nurture them, it's base on situation and right now it's the Ben-Hassrath who are taking the ax.

[Lurklen]

On average, women actually have better muscular endurance than men. It makes them better for example in long distance running. If I recall correctly it's connected to the size of muscles. The bigger they are, the more oxygen they burn.

 

And considering how male Qunari look, how their muscles are overgrown, it seems that their stamina is pretty weak. And I doubt if they are good runners (BTW, I recall that in relation to height, study on best runners showed that women are proportionally faster too - so, is there height difference on average between Qunari males and females?). And Qunari males probably eat really big amount of food. It all creates many problems during a war, especially in long terms, giving advantage for females. 

I'm thinking for a military structure like theirs to have lasted this long they must have thought about this. They have a very rigorous breeding system, one which dictates a beings entire position in life. The large males probably do eat large amounts which would be why they are likely shock troops used for dominating the battlefield in certain circumstances and so a part of a large fighting force. Any soldier will tell you an army is made up of dramatically different groups which work together. You have your hulking brutes, your lean scouts, a mountain of auxiliary forces(cooks, engineers, logistics, communication, strategy and medical) which don't even really take part in fighting and other military roles of the age (Cavalry, artillery, mages... etc). 

 Very likely they have different morphologies for different combat roles. Some of those roles likely include smaller males which require less food. As for the OP's topic I wouldn't say the Qunari are a misogynistic people but they are a sexist one. They are obsessed with the role of the individual benefitting the collective. They don't think one sex is better than the other over all but they do think the sexes are unequal in ways that don't really make complete sense.

 

 As for whether males or females are better soldiers? I think the qunari are heavily modeled on lions. The females are better suited to a lot of things but there's a reason they have the males around. Generally females are really good at running things down but struggle to kill effectively(with large prey). So the females do most of the leg work tracking coursing and subduing the prey and the male comes in and kills it. Qunari aren't so different it's just warfare and food gathering have changed. Really humans are pretty similar. Females tend to have more staying power but less punch. Of course this isn't always true, people come in all shapes and sizes and are able to fulfill different roles as their society evolves to become less dependant on physical characteristics. (Thank goodness or my large frame and bad knees would have made me useless along time ago.) Also remember the qunari females are likely much stronger than male humans, but the qunari probably don't judge their combat fitness based on that, like most people they probably judge themselves against themselves. 

[Doominike]

I don't think Qunari have the same stamina problems as humans do, Sten says he was in the cage for several days (iirc he says 10 to 20) without food or drink and states that he would have lasted a few more. It's a safe bet that they have very effective metabolisms. A bulky male qunari might have shoddy stamina compared to his leaner compatriots but still largely outmatch most people of other races.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

There's fighting professionally and then there's defending oneself.

 

Yes I know. I'm just saying that the claim that Sten categorically believes women can never fight isn't correct. Even if his exact words are "They don't fight."

[Doominike]

It's not his "they don't fight" bit, it's the "I don't understand, you look like a woman" part. He sounds like he's seeing a paradox

[drome34]

If you fight over vases you are not going to use vases as ammunition.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It's not his "they don't fight" bit, it's the "I don't understand, you look like a woman" part. He sounds like he's seeing a paradox

 

A Warden is a professional soldier. That is something a Qunari woman would not be.