205 réponses à ce sujet

[TurretSyndrome]

Apart from the treatment of mages, I don't see any other downsides to the Qunari society. 

[Mistic]

Apart from the treatment of mages, I don't see any other downsides to the Qunari society. 

 

So using qamek to turn dissenters and people who refuse to convert into mindless slaves is okay?

[TurretSyndrome]

Wow, yeah. I forgot about that one. Using Qamek is certainly taking it too far. 

[Doominike]

Imposing roles is pretty dodgy too. Especially since their response to that particular critique is "oh you don't *have* to accept your role, you can die too"

[BlueMagitek]

It's quite the effective society.

 

I mean, it isn't a nice society by any means, but at least you're appreciated.

[Loremaster_Ryan]

In response to the original poster. I'm not sure if this have been covered yet but I felt the need to chip in. In my search to learn more about the Arigen I stumbled upon this thread, discussing whether or not the Qunari had a patriarchal society. Maybe so. But its not really based on gender. 

 

Sure the Arishok can only be male and the Arigen can only be female. To be an Antaam you have to be male as well. But the Qunari have a very FLUID definition of male or female. It doesn't matter what you were born as, it matters what role you take. So you were born a male but find yourself drawn to the motherly hearth? Then declare yourself as a female and you can become the Arigen. Same thing with the Antaam. Even the Arishok can technically be a woman. If that man, born a woman, decides that he wants to be part of the Antaam and prove himself in combat alongside his brothers, he just has to come out as being male. The Qunari even have a term for this: Aqun-Athlok which means born of one gender but living as another. And the Qunari are excepting of this. A man who is actually an Aqun-Athlok is seen no differently than one born a man and vise versa. 

 

More so the male and female roles are based on the demands of the Qun, that the "men" fight, and the "women" work and craft. Male or female literally means nothing to the Qunari. You decide one day that you're female, great, you're female now. You can be the Arigen. 

 

You can't look at the Qunari the way you look at our civilization. It is not a patriarchy or a matriarchy. It is ruled by those chosen to be the best rulers, and that rule is seen as a duty, not a pleasure. Its part of what makes the Qunari so interesting. 

 

 

 

Yes.

In a recent thread about the Qunari, some people objected to the assertion that the Qunari are patriarchal. Happened a few other times before that, too. Sure, the vast majority of Qunari (and vashoth) we've seen have been men, but that's because they're the warriors, which are male. The Qunari are actually led by a three-person executive council consisting of one man, one woman, and one of either who have absolute authority over their particular branch of government/society. Men and women have different, complementary roles in Qunari society, but you can't call it patriarchal because women assume some of the highest positions of leadership. I'm not sure I agree. I would say that there's a very good chance the Qunari are a patriarchal society not dissimilar to the many patriarchal societies that exist and continue to exist pretty much... everywhere in the real world.

We haven't met many Qunari women in the games (just Tallis?). Much of the information we have comes from maybe a few codex entries (most of which I have never read), World of Thedas, and this thread. (much of the information in that thread shows up in World of Thedas) So far, the information has mostly been presented as how the Qunari see their society, or perhaps how they might justify themselves to outsiders. Not necessarily how it actually is.

Here's what WoT has to say about the Triumvirate:

Women are head of hearth and home. What an alien societal configuration the Qunari have already.

Fair enough. Both men and women are the Ben-Hassrath (which falls under the Ariqun's purview), who police and spy for the Qunari. Seems a necessity for there to be a degree of gender parity here, but I'll give them this anyway.

Ah, yes. "Mistake."

If there was an all-out war of the sexes in Par Vollen, who would win? The Arigena and her sisters would control the awesome power of a medieval command economy for approximately as long as it took for the Arishok and his army to immediately overtake them with their formidable military prowess and might. The Qunari are an aggressive, expansionist society and the men seem to do the aggressing and expanding.

The female misogynist Seer of Kont-aar weights in on page 84 of World of Thedas:

Sister, please. That is obfuscatory nonsense. "Ignore what your senses are telling you. Trust me, I'm deep and complex and there's more to me than meets the eye. I care about women, for sure, totally." Don't qunsplain to me about what I need to know about the Qunari! I know enough.

Anyway, even then, let's talk about this. Without your soul, you're a sociopath or tranquil or whatever; I don't know. Without your mind, you're comatose. Without your body? You're nothing. You don't exist. (the Qunari are godless, after all. do they believe in an afterlife?) Men win. Your body contains your mind and your soul. The reverse isn't otherwise true. (or is it.)(no!)

Here's David Gaider in the old thread, responding to someone:

Yes, an outsider might conclude this. This outsider might also conclude that the wizarding world in Harry Potter is a sortinghatriarchy and that the role of women as teachers and guardians of children in many societies means that they're the top dogs, as well. I would disagree with this outsider. Men still have more power than women/hats in many societies today where women are teachers and primary caregivers and hats are career aptitude hats.

Anyway, I definitely don't think there's enough evidence to say that the Qunari aren't patriarchal. They seem pretty patriarchal to me! The Qunari have a militaristic, expansionist empire. Men control the military and much of the secret police. Seems like they have one-up on the women. But I'm the worst and have awful opinions. I've always like Mass Effect 3's ending, for example.

Further questions:

 

Do you think female Qunari leaders are all "cool girls" who are undermining Qunari feminism? Alternately, do you think Anne Helen is kind of projecting an awful lot onto Jennifer Lawrence in that essay.

I've heard it said that the Qun is like Confucianism. I don't actually know anything about Islam, communism, feminism, or Confucianism. Anyway, are the Qunari totally a Thedosian analogue for Confucianists? In what ways. Elaborate.

Why did we only see male Saarebas last game? Do Saarebas only have same-gender Arvaarads? Are male Saarebas thought to be more, less, or equally capable/dangerous as women? Why didn't Bioware just develop one female model for all the Saarebas we would see? Have they failed feminism again.

Do u think a Marxist-Leninist-Koslunist vanguard party is necessary to lead the proletariat in revolution and establish communism.

Is the greatest weapon the Qunari have in the struggle against Tevinter the internal contradictions of capital accumulation.

Do you think the fex were matriarchal before being assimilated into the Qunari? Will we ever meet one? What do you think female fex look like?

World of Thedas calls the pre-Qunari Qunari kossith. Are we allowed to do this, at least when referring to them before the Qun, or is that still considered kind of annoying, confusing, and pretentious?

Both men and women can become the Ariqun. Do they become so at equal rates? Have there been more male or female Ariquns, and how long have reigns of each lasted? Do men and women have different responsibilities and roles when they assume this position?

Does the Arigena promote performance art, or just performance crafts?

Do you think we will ever meet a Tal-Vashoth woman who bristles at the collectivist nature of the Broviet Qunion and writes long AF novels espousing her highly individualistic philosophy? Will her newly chosen individual name be Aynraand.

Please feel free to ask and answer your own questions about the Qunari and patriarchy in this thread.