387 réponses à ce sujet

[ghostzodd]

Games which actually target current gen hardware exclusively (the next Assassin's Creed e.g.) can push around as much as over ten thousands different characters at given time in complicated environments, all with path finding, collisions etc (according to their devs) If in contrast DAI can't manage to do even 20-30 moving ambient NPCs on the screen then I'd be reluctant to blame it so quickly on "having to deal with old consoles" -- despite what the marketing departments of console makers might want to make you think now the "weak specs of old gen consoles" were good enough to handle massive, decently populated cities with pretty good graphics. As evidenced by games released in the last few years that run on these consoles and do exactly that.

 

Last gen hardware is nearly ten years old. Its great that Bioware is able to make it work for last gen, but last gen specs are very weak ,

regardless of the tricks developers use.Last gen hardware is aged.

 

 The install base is  huge for last gen so I understand why DAI is on last gen consoles. However thinking that last gen consoles can still keep up though,without  the developers having to make sacrifices is ludicrous. If DAI were just on current gen and PC I honestly think it would be G.O.AT,but its not. Regardless of what you think last gen is holding games back. 

 

That's why I am very excited for late 2014-2015. we will finally be getting current gen games. like Witcher 3, Assassins Creed Unity, and Batman Arkham Knight

[slimgrin]

I really, really hope they make the cities and villages lively or bustling.  Been a gripe of mine with DA games to this point.  It was glaring in DA2 because you spent the entire game in the one city, and it was dead and lifeless.

 

It's one of the things I'll be waiting to hear about as I decide whether or not to pick this up after release.

 

It doesn't look that way so far, even after using Frostbyte. NPCs are still standing around, no day/night cycle. Maybe the weather will change. I give credit to Bioware for expanding their level design but they still have a long ways to go in creating dynamic atmosphere in their games.

[stormhit]

EA:When game is Finished?

Bioware: Not sure much left to finish.

EA:You have one month.

 

CD projekt red: What you doing.

Developer: Game and stuff.

CD projekt red: Good good, tell when you done.

 

Anyone who has worked at a job with any type of deadline could explain to you how nothing functions like that. And not even creative jobs. Literally any job where people are being paid salaries and you need to produce a product or service.

[stormhit]

Since I can't squint that hard, does anything on that wall say anything about DAI making good impression in terms of graphics, in particular?

The only thing I can find with cursory google search is claims that TW3 got more awards than DAI at E3, which I don't think sounds very optimistic, or in disagreement with what I said.

 

You can find people giving it plenty of praise for its visuals. Usually on the more mainstream and less perpetually obnoxious and angry sites, because those mainstream sites tend to attract normal people.

[Direwolf0294]

DA:I looks pretty enough, but TW3's won it for me in terms of visuals; it's going for a more realistic feel in terms of looks and gameplay, and I prefer that over DA:I's cartoony feel.

 

I will say though, that while there's nothing wrong with going cartoony (it's just not what I'm really into), the character's faces in DA:I are absolutely horrible. I don't know if it's just the limitations of the engine (and if it is that's worrying since all EA games are going to be using it in the future), but everyone looks like their faces are made from melting wax.

[Cornughon]

The real difference for me is going to be that Dragon Age will probably shine on my AMD graphics rig, and The Witcher, being made with proprietary game enhancing tools (Gameworks), is going to run like crap, and/or with a lot of bells and whistles disabled.

[Cornughon]

I don't know if it's just the limitations of the engine (and if it is that's worrying since all EA games are going to be using it in the future), but everyone looks like their faces are made from melting wax.

It's an art direction. Some developers prefer a more artistic 'stylized' look over a photo realistic appearance. There are pros and cons for both looks. I don't think 'cartoony' is the proper term when discussing DA:I's graphics, since when talking about cartoony stuff like World of Warcraft or Wildstar come to mind.
And Battlefield 4 is looks pretty photorealistic, so it's not an engine issue.

What I'm curious about are the facial animations. The Witcher 2's were pretty stiff and emotionless compared to Dragon Age 2 or the Mass Effect series. The (English) voice acting of TW2 also wasn't always top-notch (Triss...).

[Schreckstoff]

Games which actually target current gen hardware exclusively (the next Assassin's Creed e.g.) can push around as much as over ten thousands different characters at given time in complicated environments, all with path finding, collisions etc (according to their devs) If in contrast DAI can't manage to do even 20-30 moving ambient NPCs on the screen then I'd be reluctant to blame it so quickly on "having to deal with old consoles" -- despite what the marketing departments of console makers might want to make you think now the "weak specs of old gen consoles" were good enough to handle massive, decently populated cities with pretty good graphics. As evidenced by games released in the last few years that run on these consoles and do exactly that.

Actually it does as the 512mb of RAM last gen has is an insane bottle neck. Look at Assassins Creed the cities were never densely populated and those NPCs did pretty much nothing but walking.

[Estel78]

Actually it does as the 512mb of RAM last gen has is an insane bottle neck. Look at Assassins Creed the cities were never densely populated and those NPCs did pretty much nothing but walking.

 

Sure, you'll be able to do even a lot more with next-gen but Assassins Creed was the poster child when it comes to densely populated cities. 

[Flatrid]

I prefer DAI
More realistic, there is no beauty with the face of a doll. The landscape is more particular.
DA is better for interaction, story, characters
DAi without question

[tmp7704]

Actually it does as the 512mb of RAM last gen has is an insane bottle neck. Look at Assassins Creed the cities were never densely populated and those NPCs did pretty much nothing but walking.

That's a funny thing to say.



there's more ambient people in first 5 minutes on this video than you'll find in entire Kirkwall combined, and that they actually walk around instead of doing literally nothing at all is very much the point. Some of them even, shock and horror, ride horses.

The "insane hardware bottleneck", aside from being the usual intrawebs hyperbole, is a really poor excuse if it expects one to ignore what can actually be done within these limitations.

[Battlebloodmage]

Graphic is not everything. Classic games like Chrono Trigger is still better than a lot of RPG with pretty graphic, and it's all the way back in the 16 bit era. Yes, Witcher 3 will have better graphics, but it's because they decide to make the game available for last gen as well. It's not the graphics that is limited but also what you can do with it since last gen will have less memory. I fear they may be forced to make the game "fit" with Xbox360's storage capacity. The pro is that more players will be able to experience the game but it can be the same with Witcher game on PC since most people will pirate the game anyway with no DRM, the con is definitely about the limitation of last gen. I don't care about graphic, it's more about their system of choice may limit what they can do or make strategic decisions on the map. As many have already said, Witcher characters will have better movement as well as hair since the characters are set in stone. You can't customize much, and it's easier to make animation for one as opposed a customization for 2 gender x 4 race x 3 class -1 = 23 different protagonists. Overall, they are different games, Witcher is more like a Zelda game with the set characters, and you're just experience Geralt's story with the added benefit of making decisions ingame. Dragon Age is more about customization and place yourself in the world of the game and being whoever you want to be. It's more about customization and character development than anything. It's okay to compare the two games, but it's just invite hostility when fans of one game put down other game just to justify their purchase or why they like it. Fans of both groups are guilty of this. It's one thing to be a fan, but being a fanboy is just pathetic.

[godModeAlpha]

I really, really hope they make the cities and villages lively or bustling.  Been a gripe of mine with DA games to this point.  It was glaring in DA2 because you spent the entire game in the one city, and it was dead and lifeless.

 

It's one of the things I'll be waiting to hear about as I decide whether or not to pick this up after release.

 

I think it would be better, have you seen the video with the dwarf inquisitor? the one with Sera and IB were discussing Mayhem? The village looked great.

[godModeAlpha]

DA:I looks pretty enough, but TW3's won it for me in terms of visuals; it's going for a more realistic feel in terms of looks and gameplay, and I prefer that over DA:I's cartoony feel.

 

I will say though, that while there's nothing wrong with going cartoony (it's just not what I'm really into), the character's faces in DA:I are absolutely horrible. I don't know if it's just the limitations of the engine (and if it is that's worrying since all EA games are going to be using it in the future), but everyone looks like their faces are made from melting wax.

 

then by all means dont play DA:I

[Joseph Warrick]

I think it would be better, have you seen the video with the dwarf inquisitor? the one with Sera and IB were discussing Mayhem? The village looked great.

Would you have a link handy?

[TurretSyndrome]

"Graphics isn't everything", man if only I had a dollar for every time I heard that. Right, graphics isn't everything, doesn't mean it's nothing. It plays a role in the game that you play just like everything else. If it didn't have value, developers these days wouldn't be pushing the tech to add more visual effects to their games. Just because the Witcher developers focus so much on graphics doesn't mean their game is going to be crap. Witcher 2 looked amazing for it's time and it still had a decent storyline(atleast better than DA 2), and that's coming from someone who only ever played Witcher 2 and never really got into that world. 

 

So people who think that Witcher is all about looks and nothing else, keep telling that to yourself if it helps you sleep at night. As for Witcher lacking customization, well duh... It's based on novels. It has a set character for a reason, I thought people would get that by now with CDPR releasing 2 Witcher games already. 

[Battlebloodmage]

"Graphics isn't everything", man if only I had a dollar for every time I heard that. Right, graphics isn't everything, doesn't mean it's nothing. It plays a role in the game that you play just like everything else. If it didn't have value, developers these days wouldn't be pushing the tech to add more visual effects to their games. Just because the Witcher developers focus so much on graphics doesn't mean their game is going to be crap. Witcher 2 looked amazing for it's time and it still had a decent storyline(atleast better than DA 2), and that's coming from someone who only ever played Witcher 2 and never really got into that world. 

 

So people who think that Witcher is all about looks and nothing else, keep telling that to yourself if it helps you sleep at night. As for Witcher lacking customization, well duh... It's based on novels. It has a set character for a reason, I thought people would get that by now with CDPR releasing 2 Witcher games already. 

I haven't seen people said that Witcher is only a pretty game with no substance. I love pretty graphic, too, but I also realize that better graphic is always around the corner during this period of time where technology keeps advancing. It's clear that Witcher has better graphic, but so what? It will not be the best looking game after a few years. Note that people enjoy good graphics but not usually from a particular game. Those who care about graphic will always await the next best innovation. I can see the pro that it helps with immersion; I just don't see the 2 games as comparable asides from the medieval theme. I have never said the lack of customization is a bad thing, I said that to show that the 2 games are different. I don't get the hostility coming from your response.  

[Cornughon]

So people who think that Witcher is all about looks and nothing else, keep telling that to yourself if it helps you sleep at night. As for Witcher lacking customization, well duh... It's based on novels. It has a set character for a reason, I thought people would get that by now with CDPR releasing 2 Witcher games already.

You're absolutely right, I don't really understand the negativity towards The Witcher 3, like Yennefer doesn't have black hair in the trailer, you only get to play as some dude...
Ofcourse there are also those who believe TW3 is going to be the best game ever made (which it even might be, I myself believe it's going to be great), but everything else is going to suck. And that CDPR are the best developers ever...

I personally sometimes like to point out, that even though The Witcher 1 and 2 are excellent games, they're far from perfect. TW1 is a bugfest, even the Enhanced Edition. TW2 didn't like AMD hardware on launch (or vice versa, with these things companies always tend to blame eachother for tech issues, see Id's Rage...) , had a messy inventory (but 'borrowed' the 'junk'-filter from DA2 in a later update), had gameplay tailored to gamepad use even though it was a PC-exclusive at the time. It didn't even have a vertical reverse mouse option (yes I like to have the game look down when I move the mouse forwards. Probably a relic from those 90's space combat games which preceded the FPS-genre).

I also sometimes like to point out that even with everything that is wrong with Dragon Age 2, it still has some good points.

Don't get me wrong: I love The Witcher 2, and it's predecessor. And the fact they're not North-American made (not hampered much by political/religious issues), gives them an certain uniqueness which I find extremely interesting.

[Raikas]

 

So people who think that Witcher is all about looks and nothing else, keep telling that to yourself if it helps you sleep at night. As for Witcher lacking customization, well duh... It's based on novels. It has a set character for a reason, I thought people would get that by now with CDPR releasing 2 Witcher games already. 

 

Eh, I think the people commenting on that are just making a statement of preference - I look at it similarly to people arguing about original films vs. adaptions of books and comics - they're not shocked that they can't customize Geralt, they're just pointing out why the more impressive graphics aren't a selling feature for them since the game is missing a completely unrelated feature that they consider more central to their preferences for RPGs.  And fair enough, no?

[The Elder King]

I'd agree with slimgrin that Bioware still has works to do to create dynamic atmospheres i their games.
Though, on the complaint on the Redcliffe demo having people standing that's not completely true. There were NPCs who moved in the village. I'll wait for a game to be released to form a final opinion (though I prefer to tone my expectations down on this topic).

[godModeAlpha]

Would you have a link handy?

As requested but quick before it's taken down ... again.

[TurretSyndrome]

I haven't seen people said that Witcher is only a pretty game with no substance. I love pretty graphic, too, but I also realize that better graphic is always around the corner during this period of time where technology keeps advancing. It's clear that Witcher has better graphic, but so what? It will not be the best looking game after a few years. Note that people enjoy good graphics but not usually from a particular game. Those who care about graphic will always await the next best innovation. I can see the pro that it helps with immersion; I just don't see the 2 games as comparable asides from the medieval theme. I have never said the lack of customization is a bad thing, I said that to show that the 2 games are different. I don't get the hostility coming from your response.  

 

Well I wasn't specifically talking about you or anything(Sorry if you thought I was being hostile to you). I was just speaking in general after reading a few posts that said the same thing. It's just that whenever I see that "graphics aren't everything" argument come up(which is an often lot especially in threads like this and on Youtube), people tend to put it in a way as if the game in question really has no substance or that graphics don't matter at all. I was just saying that it does to me as well as for developers, otherwise they wouldn't be spending so much money on improving the visual quality of their games.

 

It's true what you said and I agree. The games are pretty far apart even though they reside in the same genre. They have different priorities on what they focus on. DA:I is more about player RP freedom and has to sacrifice a lot to achieve that. Witcher is more about one man's story while still allowing choices to be made and varying consequences to be had in that very storyline, even though it's not at the level of DA. Neither games are going to be perfect, regardless of what fanboys on either side may want to believe. 

[Kinthalis ThornBlade]

As requested but quick before it's taken down ... again.

 

I threw up a little bit in my mouth. I hate the over the top combat in this game. People in plate armor jumping around like superheroes. It's like a bunch of 12 year olds who watch too much anime designed the animations.

 

::sigh::

[ghostzodd]

That's a funny thing to say.



there's more ambient people in first 5 minutes on this video than you'll find in entire Kirkwall combined, and that they actually walk around instead of doing literally nothing at all is very much the point. Some of them even, shock and horror, ride horses.

The "insane hardware bottleneck", aside from being the usual intrawebs hyperbole, is a really poor excuse if it expects one to ignore what can actually be done within these limitations.

 

[Aaleel]

I think the common mistake in these conversations is that people confuse graphics with aesthetics or art style.  Both game shave great graphics its the art style that sets them apart for me.  DA:I just looks like a kids animated movie to me.  The reason why it's so important to me is that it sets the tone, atmosphere, this isn't a book where you're creating the scene in your mind as you read.  You're going off the visuals the game is giving you, and the graphics power has nothing to do with it. 

 

Dragon's Dogma for example, last gen console exclusive.

 

 

 

 

All these to me look better aesthetically than what I've seen from DA:I so far.  It's a darker, gritter, more serious tone, as opposed to DA:I which is trying to tell Dark Fantasy with this kiddie art design.  I wouldn't let this alone stop me from buying the game, but depending on the info that comes out between now and release it may help determine what side of the fence I fall on.