387 réponses à ce sujet

[Enigmatick]

-snip-

Yeah, you more or less got it. When it comes to full fledged AAA $60 products I have to admit I just don't feel wrong for complaining that some of the more minute aspects should be of a better quality.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I used to take it literally: we didn't put something in because we simply couldn't be bothered to do it.  We'd rather sit back with our feet up doing nothing.

 

It may shift somewhat depending on the context, but it's really just a qualitative statement about the thing that they didn't like.  It came across as low enough quality that it feels unsatisfactory to them.  There may be some implicit assumption as to their perception of the difficulty of a task, but in reality they don't actually know that.  But I can't fault them necessarily for it.  I could split hairs over the semantics that they don't understand the challenges, or simply recognize that it's a criticism that says "This comes across as unfinished or unpolished, and is negatively affecting my experience."

 

 

Of course I'd prefer them to actually say that, since I'm human and get defensive.  But hey, they're probably emotional too so it behooves me to examine a critique and try to look past the method of delivery of a critique (the tone) and try to understand what the critique actually is referencing.

If I might ask, Allan:

 

When you guys started working on DA:I, did you intend for it to go next-gen? That is, did you start it as a last-gen project and then decided to include next-gen or did you build it from the ground up knowing that it was going to be next-gen?

 

I am asking because a few developers (Ubisoft among them with AC4) admitted that some of their cross-gen titles last year started out as last-gen and then were ported to next-gen as the new consoles were revealed and dev kits released.

[aTigerslunch]

Han Shot First, what I read, means Geralt will have those two following him around like a party?

[slimgrin]

I would bet large sums of money that if the DAI footage shown said The Witcher III on it, there'd be groups of people that would like it when they scoff at it because it has BioWare's name on it.

 

I would bet the same large sums of money that if The Witcher footage was shown and it said Dragon Age on it, there'd be gruops of people that would like it when they scoff at it because it has CD Projekt's name on it.

Ehhh. I don't know what to make of this comment. CDPR has some of the best trailers around, and the devs have mentioned Bioware as an inspiration for TW2. ME2 for example, it's cinematic quality and the art direction. 

[Allan Schumacher]

As far as I'm aware the game was always intended to be available on the next gen platforms.  But that doesn't mean that it always was (there was preliminary work that started before I was on the project).

[aTigerslunch]

slimgrin, its reference of fan bashing other games cause of a title on a screenie rather than the image itself.

[Fiery Phoenix]

As far as I'm aware the game was always intended to be available on the next gen platforms.  But that doesn't mean that it always was (there was preliminary work that started before I was on the project).

That's what I thought. 

 

But since I believe you only got your hands on the new dev kits last year, I was wondering if the project was originally intended to be next-gen as well.

[Enigmatick]

As far as I'm aware the game was always intended to be available on the next gen platforms.  But that doesn't mean that it always was (there was preliminary work that started before I was on the project).

Hey Allan I have to ask now that you're here: Given enough time do you think Bioware could've made an engine better suited for RPGs than Frostbite? Do you think it could've produced the same amount of fidelity? And would you have preferred an in-house engine to Frostbite?

[Allan Schumacher]

Ehhh. I don't know what to make of this comment. CDPR has some of the best trailers around, and the devs have mentioned Bioware as an inspiration for TW2. ME2 for example, it's cinematic quality and the art direction. 

 

I'm saying that some people have an affiliation to the developer name, on both sides.  Like Nintendo vs Sega, or Nike vs Reebok.

 

 

Like sports fans that think a call for their team is a good call no matter how awful it was.  Or a call against their team is a bad call no matter how fair it was.

 

Heck, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't more tolerant/understanding to game studios that tended to produce games I liked, compared to game studios that made games I actively disliked.

[Allan Schumacher]

That's what I thought. 

 

But since I believe you only got your hands on the new dev kits last year, I was wondering if the project was originally intended to be next-gen as well.

 

There was a ton of NDAs regarding dev kits.  I wouldn't take public knowledge of when you learned a studio had them for very much weight.

 

 

Hey Allan I have to ask now that you're here: Given enough time do you think Bioware could've made an engine better suited for RPGs than Frostbite? Do you think it could've produced the same amount of fidelity? And would you have preferred an in-house engine to Frostbite?

 

In terms of fidelity, probably not.  I mean, there's always advantages to knowing "we're going to build this system knowing it precisely needs to handle exactly what we want it to do."  But I think that fails to appropriate take into account that that's no guarantee that preplanned solutions may not have been viable come implementation anyways, at which point you haven't necessarily gained much.

 

The challenges, from my perspective anyways, are less about the engine itself and more with the tools and some of the assumptions that went into making it.  If those assumptions were RPG assumptions, things may have been different.  But to be honest I'm mostly speculating.  Engine development is complex, because involved with it is also the development tools and pipelines to deploy said content.  Graphics updates can come in reasonably smoothly, but a tool update has higher risk for negatively affecting workflows.

 

Because of the demands of Battlefield 3/4, some of the tools (particularly cinematic conversation stuff) didn't exist.  It might have been better if we could lay the foundation with the knowledge of what we'd need it for.  But I've never really worked on an engine specifically.  I also think that there are advantages of having other teams able to help us out and technology sharing, but that's a bit beyond the scope of the question.

 

A verbose "It probably would in some ways but I don't know for sure."

[Enigmatick]

-snip-

Well thanks for answering, might as well say something inane now.

 

Whip the guy who makes the UI and tell him to make more "earthy" lots of wood and leather metal should be there instead of the typical minimalist transparent look, also give us a screen of the PC UI.

 

In all seriousness I hope no major bugs come about because of the new engine. (Tiny question: Would you say that the engine has been severely modified for DAI? To keep on topic I mean something similar to how the NWN engine was modded for Witcher 1)

[A.Kazama]

AH... This old chestnut...

[Allan Schumacher]

Tiny question: Would you say that the engine has been severely modified for DAI? To keep on topic I mean something similar to how the NWN engine was modded for Witcher 1

 

It "depends."  We've modified how cameras worked, and we've added in some features and engine extensions for game systems we use.  But my understanding is that we could still swap out some modules and start working on an FPS game pretty easily if we were so inclined.  We'd just also have the benefit of bringing in the conversation system and maybe other things as well if we would like.

 

The tools is a definitely.  A lot of what we do FrostEd simply didn't support in an efficient manner.  DICE hand set up a lot of scenes and spoken lines in their games but we have too much of that in our games so we need to find ways to create and deploy that content faster.

[Enigmatick]

Ah o/k, thanks for answering then Allan.

 

Also try pushing to get us more information about the combat mechanics will ya?

[Nashiktal]

I used to take it literally: we didn't put something in because we simply couldn't be bothered to do it.  We'd rather sit back with our feet up doing nothing.

 

It may shift somewhat depending on the context, but it's really just a qualitative statement about the thing that they didn't like.  It came across as low enough quality that it feels unsatisfactory to them.  There may be some implicit assumption as to their perception of the difficulty of a task, but in reality they don't actually know that.  But I can't fault them necessarily for it.  I could split hairs over the semantics that they don't understand the challenges, or simply recognize that it's a criticism that says "This comes across as unfinished or unpolished, and is negatively affecting my experience."

 

 

Of course I'd prefer them to actually say that, since I'm human and get defensive.  But hey, they're probably emotional too so it behooves me to examine a critique and try to look past the method of delivery of a critique (the tone) and try to understand what the critique actually is referencing.

I am guilty of using this phrase. I used to avoid that kind of language myself as I felt it was tasteless. However after ME3 I was hurt and in my downward spiral during the aftermath of the game I lashed out at everything I didn't like about the story and gameplay mechanics.

 

Specifically I used the word lazy for what Bioware did to reveal Tali's face. I don't know what happened there. I really don't. Because of that I should not call out my displeasure as lazy. However I was just shocked and angry at Bioware using stock photo's for her face. I had spent months in the lead up to ME3 defending Bioware and proclaiming that they would handle the quarians appearence with creativity and even if I didn't like the face it would at least be valid.

 

Now me calling the team lazy is unfair. I don't know what happened there. They probably spent months trying to decide the right way to handle her reveal. I still feel it was a poor choice to do so but now that I have moved on from the drama I feel foolish for how I acted. Not for how I felt or feel now mind, but for how I expressed myself.

[slimgrin]

I am guilty of using this phrase. I used to avoid that kind of language myself as I felt it was tasteless. However after ME3 I was hurt and in my downward spiral during the aftermath of the game I lashed out at everything I didn't like about the story and gameplay mechanics.

 

Specifically I used the word lazy for what Bioware did to reveal Tali's face. I don't know what happened there. I really don't. Because of that I should not call out my displeasure as lazy. However I was just shocked and angry at Bioware using stock photo's for her face. I had spent months in the lead up to ME3 defending Bioware and proclaiming that they would handle the quarians appearence with creativity and even if I didn't like the face it would at least be valid.

 

Now me calling the team lazy is unfair. I don't know what happened there. They probably spent months trying to decide the right way to handle her reveal. I still feel it was a poor choice to do so but now that I have moved on from the drama I feel foolish for how I acted. Not for how I felt or feel now mind, but for how I expressed myself.

Tali's face was incredibly lazy and borderline unethical. I don't think anyone spent months on her reveal, they just surfed the web and found something. I know this is off topic and everyone mocks Tali fans, but their solution to her looks is one of the lamest things I've seen a developer do.

[Deflagratio]

the witcher 2  otimization was horrible  i  have friend that hade  i7 920 overcloked and gtx   580 that only got 25 fps

 

 

I have a friend that's President of the United States. Prove that I don't.

[LEXX]

The really sad thing will be in DAI is Frostbite3.  There's no way for the modding community to mod a terrific graphics/skins/textures for DAI this time around.

[Beliar86]

I have a friend that's President of the United States. Prove that I don't.

It's actually probably true if ubersampling was on. The warnings and red text around it wasn't enough a clue for some.

[duckley]

Will be playing both games. Totally enjoy both series, but overall DA wins my heart

[Nefla]

They both look great, who cares? It's not like one is cutting edge and the other looks like Morrowind or Final Fantasy 7. I for one buy multiple games every year so this whole competition thing is pointless. I'm buying both.

[AllThatJazz]

No. The rumor is right now a GTX 780 Ti can only run the game maxed out at 1080p at 35-45fps. Not exactly bad and considering it's still far out on development...a lot of optimizations will be made. Assuming it's even true.

 

I really hope that's the case, though a 780ti is still a pretty beastly card (£500 for the 3GB version!). Thing is, I remember the recommended specs for the first two games, and my PC exceeded them in both cases - the games still ran horribly on my machines, until the enhanced editions came out - W1 was nearly unplayable in Vizima. And even afterwards there were a few problems with severe lagging etc.

 

I have plenty of confidence that CDPR will deliver a good story with decent c&c, compelling (though for me, not terribly likeable) characters and lovely visuals, set in a rich world with interesting creatures, though the setting can be overly grimdark for my tastes. The two areas that concern me (because of problems in both previous titles) are running the thing well on non-top of the line hardware (like you say, they have a few months yet, so hopefully things will be okay this time around) and gameplay. Didn't really enjoy the combat in TW1, loathed it in TW2 (even after the EE and rebalance mod) to the point where I never managed to force myself to do a second playthrough. I had to watch a Let's Play of the Roche path

[AllThatJazz]

The really sad thing will be in DAI is Frostbite3.  There's no way for the modding community to mod a terrific graphics/skins/textures for DAI this time around.

 

Modders managed to do textures etc for the Mass Effect games, despite UE3 not being terrifically moddable either. Whatever DICE says about Frostbite being unmoddable, I bet some talented modders out there will find a way to do something ...

[Firky]

I'm pretty oblivious to graphics, generally. Like, I'd much prefer interesting art style/genre etc than photorealistic stuff.

 

Witcher 2 was great, but there was a whole section in the middle which was way too pink. (... I can't remember where it was. Mental blank. Lots of fighting.)

 

But. I'm really interested in the visual effects DA2 was doing. Like with the Rock Wraith fight and you got like this great motion blur thing on some of its abilities. That made things really exciting, IMO. (And I pause more than I play, so it's not an action thing.)