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[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

From the recent interview with Mr David Gaider:

 

 

[DA]: How does Dorian compare to characters you've written in the past?

[DG]: Dorian is an outcast—by choice, but only insofar as he chose not to live according to the expectations of his society. There are a lot of aspects to that which I enjoyed exploring, and which I haven't had to chance to do with other characters.

[DA]: Anything in particular?

[DG]: Dorian is gay—he is, in fact, the first fully gay character I've had the opportunity to write. It added an interesting dimension to his back story, considering he comes from a place where "perfection" is the face that every mage puts on and anything that smacks of deviancy is shameful and meant to be hidden. Dorian's refusal to play along with that façade is seen as stubborn and pointless by his family, which has contributed to his status as a pariah.

 

This, to me, creates the impression that homosexuality is frowned upon in Tevinter and Dorian thrives upon his difference in that respect among others.

 

 

Forgive me, my lore is a little rusty, but I thought homosexuality was generally accepted all over Thedas?

 

 

[ManOfSteel]

From the recent interview with Mr David Gaider:

 

 

[DA]: How does Dorian compare to characters you've written in the past?

[DG]: Dorian is an outcast—by choice, but only insofar as he chose not to live according to the expectations of his society. There are a lot of aspects to that which I enjoyed exploring, and which I haven't had to chance to do with other characters.

[DA]: Anything in particular?

[DG]: Dorian is gay—he is, in fact, the first fully gay character I've had the opportunity to write. It added an interesting dimension to his back story, considering he comes from a place where "perfection" is the face that every mage puts on and anything that smacks of deviancy is shameful and meant to be hidden. Dorian's refusal to play along with that façade is seen as stubborn and pointless by his family, which has contributed to his status as a pariah.

 

This, to me, creates the impression that homosexuality is frowned upon in Tevinter and Dorian thrives upon his difference in that respect among others.

 

 

Forgive me, my lore is a little rusty, but I thought homosexuality was generally accepted all over Thedas?

It's no surprise that Tevinter's view on sexuality differs from the rest of Thedas. It's basically opposite land.

[TheTurtle]

From what I can tell it is only frowned upon if you're a Tevinter noble. It seems like as long as you have lots of powerful mage babies with another noble they don't care who you sleep with on the side.

[Inquisitor Mary Sue]

Yes, apparently the writers didn't think slavery was an obvious enough giveaway that Tevinter are supposed to be the bad guys so they threw in puppy killing, blood magic sacrifices and anti-progressive views towards homosexuals, basically Tevinter embodies everything you should hate!

[Celtic Latino]

It depends on the region. There's no real explicit homophobia but there are definitely cultures where there is a high amount of pressure for heterosexual relationships (usually in regards to marriage/children).

 

Considering Dorian comes from an esteemed family, its highly likely they wanted him to marry off to a woman to produce heirs. And generally speaking, people who are married like to at least let people BELIEVE their union is monogamous and happy and that Dorian only has eyes for whoever he was to be paired off with. In fact I'm sure a same-gender royal pairing wouldn't want others to know if they are seeing anyone else on the side (and in the case of humans, seeing elves, or for dwarves, seeing anyone outside their caste, etc...).

 

Its not so much accepted as it isn't really discriminated against.

 

http://dragonage.wik...ty_and_marriage

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

From what I can tell it is only frowned upon if you're a Tevinter noble. It seems like as long as you have lots of powerful mage babies with another noble they don't care who you sleep with on the side.

 

But that seems to contradict what this is saying.

 

Because, yeah, Celene is a lesbian (or at least bi), and she doesn't take pride in being different or think of it as rebelling, she just treats it as completely normal, which Tevinter doesn't seem to, regardless of whether its nobility or otherwise. 

 

Plus, forgive me but isn't power in Tevinter less hereditary and more power-won anyway, making the baby point redundant?

[BloodyTalon]

From the recent interview with Mr David Gaider:

 

 

[DA]: How does Dorian compare to characters you've written in the past?

[DG]: Dorian is an outcast—by choice, but only insofar as he chose not to live according to the expectations of his society. There are a lot of aspects to that which I enjoyed exploring, and which I haven't had to chance to do with other characters.

[DA]: Anything in particular?

[DG]: Dorian is gay—he is, in fact, the first fully gay character I've had the opportunity to write. It added an interesting dimension to his back story, considering he comes from a place where "perfection" is the face that every mage puts on and anything that smacks of deviancy is shameful and meant to be hidden. Dorian's refusal to play along with that façade is seen as stubborn and pointless by his family, which has contributed to his status as a pariah.

 

This, to me, creates the impression that homosexuality is frowned upon in Tevinter and Dorian thrives upon his difference in that respect among others.

 

 

Forgive me, my lore is a little rusty, but I thought homosexuality was generally accepted all over Thedas?

Not surpised its liked that, given they want to breed better and stronger mages which means merging bloodlines and so on, along with some other hints from past DA games.

[Heimdall]

I believe its been said that homosexuality is seen as odd, but not in a negative light in Thedas.  The exception being nobles who are expected to produce heirs for their dynasties.  So a homosexual Tevinter noble is probably seen as shaming his family in the sense of not doing his duty to spawn little future mage lords.

[Celtic Latino]

Remember Orlesians are very 'out there' and try to one-up each other. Considering elves are considered prizes, of course Celene would love to parade her relationship with Briala around given the Orlesian fondness for elves (or at least, noble elves. Can't say the same for the poor souls in the Alienage). Plus Celene is also considered to be pretty progressive as far as Orlesian rulers go.

 

Tevinter seems extremely rule-bound and exhibits extreme social expectations and hierarchy (not unlike Orzammar or the Qun). What Tevinter expects of its nobility is probably far different (and considering they are considered to be similar to the Roman/Byzantine Empire, I can imagine there is definitely a social disparity, not just among classes and races but also gender and sexuality).

 

Could be much of Dorian's conflicts allude to real world homophobia and the whole 'social expectations' but will probably be rooted in his views against the Tevinter empire in general and say little about his sexuality.

[Jawzzus]

I believe its been said that homosexuality is seen as odd, but not in a negative light in Thedas.  The exception being nobles who are expected to produce heirs for their dynasties.  So a homosexual Tevinter noble is probably seen as shaming his family in the sense of not doing his duty to spawn little future mage lords.

 

I think its this, I don't think they mind if the Magisters have little play things on the side, as long as their main focus is women making babies.  Dorian has no interest in women so he won't have any babies, so no mages can come from him.  And since Mr. Gaider said he's very very strong, they probably were really hoping he would breed.

[wetnasty]

Yes, apparently the writers didn't think slavery was an obvious enough giveaway that Tevinter are supposed to be the bad guys so they threw in puppy killing, blood magic sacrifices and anti-progressive views towards homosexuals, basically Tevinter embodies everything you should hate!

 

Oh please. 

[AllThatJazz]

 

 

Plus, forgive me but isn't power in Tevinter less hereditary and more power-won anyway, making the baby point redundant?

 

Magic is hereditary though, as Leandra says in DA2, so more babies from magical families means more young mages to grow up and fight for power, bringing even more influence to said family. Tevinter social norms might also consider a straight noble 'shameful and deviant' if they just didn't want children. But being LGBT clearly isn't a total barrier to power in Tevinter - isn't Maevaris a magister?

[TheTurtle]

But that seems to contradict what this is saying.

Because, yeah, Celene is a lesbian (or at least bi), and she doesn't take pride in being different or think of it as rebelling, she just treats it as completely normal, which Tevinter doesn't seem to, regardless of whether its nobility or otherwise.

Plus, forgive me but isn't power in Tevinter less hereditary and more power-won anyway, making the baby point redundant?

Yes power is won, but if you have strong mage children then they're most likely going to be able keep your families power.

[Silfren]

I believe its been said that homosexuality is seen as odd, but not in a negative light in Thedas.  The exception being nobles who are expected to produce heirs for their dynasties.  So a homosexual Tevinter noble is probably seen as shaming his family in the sense of not doing his duty to spawn little future mage lords.

 

This seems to be the go-to argument, but it ignores the very obvious fact that nothing has ever, EVER stopped a person from performing their familial duties while still taking lovers on the side.  It's an extremely bad argument because fertility has never been negatively impacted by one's sexual preferences, and history is replete with examples of noble personages happily f*cking whomever their please even while they carry out their obligations to provide heirs.  There's no reason in the world for this to necessitate Tevinter having a societal taboo against nobles engaging in non-hetero sexual relations.  Obviously there would be a societal impetus to engage in procreative relationships that DID perpetuate strong bloodlines, but that hardly negates the possibility of companionate relationships.  

[martiancake]

The relevant quote from World of Thedas: 

 

"The view on indulging lusts with a member of the same gender varies from land to land. In Orlais, it is considered a quirk of character and nothing more. In Ferelden, it is a matter of scandal if done indiscreetly but otherwise nothing noteworthy. In Tevinter, it is considered selfish and deviant behavior among nobles, but actively encouraged with favored slaves. Nowhere is it forbidden, and sex of any kind is only considered noteworthy of judgement when taken to awful excess or performed in the public eye." (WoT, pg. 72)

[Heimdall]

But that seems to contradict what this is saying.

 

Because, yeah, Celene is a lesbian (or at least bi), and she doesn't take pride in being different or think of it as rebelling, she just treats it as completely normal, which Tevinter doesn't seem to, regardless of whether its nobility or otherwise. 

 

Plus, forgive me but isn't power in Tevinter less hereditary and more power-won anyway, making the baby point redundant?

Seats in the Magisterium are inherited (There are other ways to get a seat, but that's one of them) and I imagine everyone wants their family to keep it.

 

It could be an Orlesian thing I imagine Briala being an elf would be the bigger scandal in any case.  The nobles of Orlais have been miffed for sometimes that Celene hasn't produced an heir though.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Based on Michel's reaction to learning Celene was with Briala, it wasn't a scandal that Briala was a woman or even that she was an elf in and of itself. Apparently he was shocked not that Celene had an affair with an elf, but that she was in a long term relationship with one.

[Heimdall]

This seems to be the go-to argument, but it ignores the very obvious fact that nothing has ever, EVER stopped a person from performing their familial duties while still taking lovers on the side.  It's an extremely bad argument because fertility has never been negatively impacted by one's sexual preferences, and history is replete with examples of noble personages happily f*cking whomever their please even while they carry out their obligations to provide heirs.  There's no reason in the world for this to necessitate Tevinter having a societal taboo against nobles engaging in non-hetero sexual relations.  Obviously there would be a societal impetus to engage in procreative relationships that DID perpetuate strong bloodlines, but that hardly negates the possibility of companionate relationships.  

It doesn't, but that's not the point.  The point is that Dorian is implied to be open about it and, in his rebelliousness, won't go through the motions of producing an heir to satisfy his family regardless of his orientation.  I imagine the taboo exists between magisters for similar reasons.  The families want them to spend their time with magisters of the opposite sex, thus bringing together powerful magical bloodlines in the next generation.  To the point, magisters don't see relationships between magisters as relationships, they see them as longterm political maneuvers.  Hence why such a homosexual relationship is seen as "selfish".

 

EDIT: Rephrasing

[Inquisitor Mary Sue]

Oh please. 

 

Oh please what?

[Lorien19]

I remember reading that before,but I don't remember where...Was it the wiki WOT?...Ugh,Now I'll have to look!

[BloodyTalon]

I want a game set there now more than ever.

Sort of have the feeling iv will go there fully and to the lands of the qun.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

The relevant quote from World of Thedas: 

 

"The view on indulging lusts with a member of the same gender varies from land to land. In Orlais, it is considered a quirk of character and nothing more. In Ferelden, it is a matter of scandal if done indiscreetly but otherwise nothing noteworthy. In Tevinter, it is considered selfish and deviant behavior among nobles, but actively encouraged with favored slaves. Nowhere is it forbidden, and sex of any kind is only considered noteworthy of judgement when taken to awful excess or performed in the public eye." (WoT, pg. 72)

 

Pretty conclusive. Cheers man.

[StrangeStrategy]

I haven't read every reply so I don't know if this has been stated already or not;

 

Homosexuality isn't taboo anywhere, it is however not recommended in societies/cultures where breeding is encouraged. Human Nobles must breed to produce heirs, Elves and dwarves must breed to continue their race, especially the Dalish. Tevinter encourages the breeding of mages because two magical parents are more likely to create a magical child.

[katerinafm]

In the dorian thread they posted some info on tevinter and it looks like they frown upon it because they are fanatic about continuing the magic lines etc. Dorian being a really powerful mage and not continuing his family line by being gay is probably an insult to tevinter.