107 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

It's not taboo. It's looked on if you are a noble. Tevinter is a society about linage. It about 1000 year old or more family line who are all about making the next generation of mages. You can do that it the next head of the family or other members of the family are homosexual cause, you know, it does not work like that with baby making. In Tevinter bi is ok because you are at least have options to continue the family line but full blown gay is a nono.

[leaguer of one]

Wait.. wait what? If I am against something, naturally I will hate people that support it. 

Not true. Hate and being ageist are two different things.

[Killdren88]

Eh, they always struck me as Theda's Nazi Germany.

[MissOuJ]

That seems to be the case.  With nobility in general, not just Tevinter, it seems important to provide heirs to continue bloodlines.  If Tevinter is working to breed supermages, or whatever, among their magisters, that "duty" may be considered even more important.

 

This is how I read it as well. He's a pariah not because he's gay, but because he doesn't buy into the Tevinter power politics and (probably) refuses / has refused / would refuse an arranged marriage to carry out his line. In a society where magical pedigree is highly prized and he's from a wealthy and powerful family, that seems to be the most grevious insult, not that he prefers men over women. It seems that in Thedas as long as you fulfill your "societal role" of your culture / country, you can do what you want, so if Dorian got married and got a few kids, nobody would probably bat an eye at a lover or several, as long as he wasn't particularly public or vocal about it - can't really blame him for not wanthing to live like that, though.

 

The only problem I have with this is that I already decided on a lady Inquisitor, and I wanted to romance Dorian (despite the moustache) since the first moment I read about his stance on the Tevinter Imperium and the mages (and I hope he's anti-slavery as well). Oh well, they just have to be the greatest BFFs that ever lived, and I just have to romance him with a male Inquisitor on another playthrough. Can't say I really have a problem with that.

[Gorguz]

Did we met a tevinter magister who was a trap? Mia, Mea or something? S he wasn't a pariah, s he went to balls and all.

[9TailsFox]

Did we met a tevinter magister who was a trap? Mia, Mea or something? S he wasn't a pariah, s he went to balls and all.

Yes. Maevaris Tilani.

http://dragonage.wik...Maevaris_Tilani

[Asdrubael Vect]

Did we met a tevinter magister who was a trap? Mia, Mea or something? S he wasn't a pariah, s he went to balls and all.

he keep in secret that he was a man and he have a rich dwarf husband(i think that he is who give Mae the place in Senat before he dies) who was a cousin of Varrick and Bertrand

[Andraste_Reborn]

Can we please not call Maevaris a man or, worse, a 'trap'? Maevaris is a transwoman. (And she is awesome and has excellent taste in husbands.)

[SolNebula]

It's like it was in Ancient Rome. Nobody cares If you had homosexual activity as long as you played by the rule of the society meaning for a men to have a wife and children and be an "honest" pater familias (meaning a good citizens). Nobody would have judged a noble Roman for his homosexuality  with favorite slaves or other man, however in public he should have been with his wife and childrens.

 

As Tevinter is inspired by Rome and Byzantium also their view on society is similar to it. Homosexuality in ancient Greece and Rome was very different on how it is now, current way of seeing it (as a pure sexual preference) would have been unaccetable for their times where a man had to be married with children, however if society request were satisfied nobody would have judged what a man would do in his private chambers.

 

I really like how the writers gave great attention to these details.

[Asdrubael Vect]

THE SEX LIVES OF EVERYDAY THEDOSIANS

What I find most interesting is that, despite the lack of open

discussion on matters of human sexuality, there is commonality

to be found on the subject in all Andrastian lands.

Typically, one's sexual habits are considered natural and

separate from matters of procreation, and only among the nobility,

where procreation involves issues of inheritance and the

union of powerful families, is it considered of vital importance.

Yet, even there, a noble who has done their duty to the family

might be allowed to pursue their own sexual interests without

raising eyebrows.

 

The view on indulging lusts with a member of the same gender

varies from land to land. In Orlais, it is considered a quirk of

character and nothing more. In Ferelden, it is a matter of scandal if

done indiscreetly but otherwise nothing noteworthy. In Tevinter,

it is considered selfish and deviant behavior among nobles.

Nowhere is it forbidden, and sex of any kind is only considered worthy of judgment when

taken to awful excess or performed in the public eye.

[Xilizhra]

Can we please not call Maevaris a man or, worse, a 'trap'? Maevaris is a transwoman. (And she is awesome and has excellent taste in husbands.)

I can only speak for me, but I would consider being called a man far worse than being called a trap.

[ElitePinecone]

I believe its been said that homosexuality is seen as odd, but not in a negative light in Thedas.  The exception being nobles who are expected to produce heirs for their dynasties.  So a homosexual Tevinter noble is probably seen as shaming his family in the sense of not doing his duty to spawn little future mage lords.

 

Yep, I think this is the way it works. 

 

Plus since magic is likely hereditary, I can see noble families going to great lengths to "trade" their magically-powerful children around to other families to create the best matches and the most powerful grandchildren. Political marriages are even more important when magic is the currency of power in Tevinter, and magic can be boosted by the most suitable pairings. 

 

In that respect it's called "selfish" and "deviant", because gay or lesbian children are both said to be failing their duty to the family, and transgressing the "reproductive" male/female relationships that Tevinter might see as the foundation for a family line and the continued growth of magical power.

[ElitePinecone]

Yes power is won, but if you have strong mage children then they're most likely going to be able keep your families power.

 

Also this.

[Lebanese Dude]

Yeah I don't think it's homophobia as much as it is losing-potential-power-in-the-family-by-virtue-of-never-rearing-children-....phobia

[leaguer of one]

Can we please not call Maevaris a man or, worse, a 'trap'? Maevaris is a transwoman. (And she is awesome and has excellent taste in husbands.)

Their's no insult in calling her a trap. It's more an anime thing then an insult.

[leaguer of one]

I can only speak for me, but I would consider being called a man far worse than being called a trap.

Hey , hey... it's not that bad being a man. We may have less  erogenous zones but it's more concentrated.

[ElitePinecone]

So you're saying nobles of orlais and magisters of tevinter have different standards and expectations thrust upon them? What lunacy be this?

 

Not sure if you were being sarcastic here, but I think this actually true to a certain extent. 

 

Ferelden and (particularly) Orlais don't seem to be as hung up as Tevinter over the idea of family lineages and bloodline-purity, and we've seen a couple of examples of adopted or illegitimate children who go on to inherit power. 

 

Second (and third, fourth etc) children in Ferelden are also relatively less important to the family, since it's the eldest child who would inherit any lands and titles - the Human Noble origin in DAO showed no consequences for a lesbian or gay Cousland, and the family didn't even bat an eyelid if they took a same-sex partner. 

 

But if "breeding" powerful magic is the overwhelming obsession of Tevinter's great families, then they'd probably spend an enormous amount of time and effort engineering matches and alliances between different houses, so that their magical offspring would be the most potent. "Wasting" a child by letting them be with a same-sex partner is one less opportunity to increase the overall influence of the family.

 

From the Dorian interview:

 

"In Tevinter, mages form the ruling class. He comes from a wealthy and influential family, one of many that arrange marriages and raise their children to become perfect mages… yet Dorian has rejected that life."

[Afro_Explosion]

Their's no insult in calling her a trap. It's more an anime thing then an insult.

Im pretty sure that doesn't mean what you think it means. Trap means they are tricking men into thinking they are "real" women, that is VERY much an insult.

[Dabrikishaw]

It's modeled off of the Roman view on homosexuality, which is that it's okay when you're using it as a means of expressing male dominance but otherwise unacceptable. Tevinter is a bit more nuanced, with the emphasis on babymaking, but I think that's the core inspiration.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Not sure if you were being sarcastic here, but I think this actually true to a certain extent. 
 
Ferelden and (particularly) Orlais don't seem to be as hung up as Tevinter over the idea of family lineages and bloodline-purity, and we've seen a couple of examples of adopted or illegitimate children who go on to inherit power. 
 
Second (and third, fourth etc) children in Ferelden are also relatively less important to the family, since it's the eldest child who would inherit any lands and titles - the Human Noble origin in DAO showed no consequences for a lesbian or gay Cousland, and the family didn't even bat an eyelid if they took a same-sex partner. 
 
But if "breeding" powerful magic is the overwhelming obsession of Tevinter's great families, then they'd probably spend an enormous amount of time and effort engineering matches and alliances between different houses, so that their magical offspring would be the most potent. "Wasting" a child by letting them be with a same-sex partner is one less opportunity to increase the overall influence of the family.
 
From the Dorian interview:
 
"In Tevinter, mages form the ruling class. He comes from a wealthy and influential family, one of many that arrange marriages and raise their children to become perfect mages… yet Dorian has rejected that life."

I was trying to be sarcastic but its hard to do so without hashtagging a tone to it.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Im pretty sure that doesn't mean what you think it means. Trap means they are tricking men into thinking they are "real" women, that is VERY much an insult.

I thought trap was a form of Bad quality music. And stuff Fred Jones loves.

[ElitePinecone]

I was trying to be sarcastic but its hard to do so without hashtagging a tone to it.

 

Ah, yeah I re-read your post and thought that might've been it

[Rawgrim]

I keep seeing Admiral Ackbar shouting "Its a trap!" in my mind now.

[leaguer of one]

Im pretty sure that doesn't mean what you think it means. Trap means they are tricking men into thinking they are "real" women, that is VERY much an insult.

It doesn't matter if they still don't care and keep going once they find out.

[Xilizhra]

Im pretty sure that doesn't mean what you think it means. Trap means they are tricking men into thinking they are "real" women, that is VERY much an insult.

This is true if you're calling people that IRL without knowing them; don't ever do that. I just frequent some Internet communities where it's a non-insulting slang term.