28 réponses à ce sujet

[Scerene]

One thing that reaaaalllly bugged me in mass effect, specifically is how much worse the textures the custom character had compared to the companions. My last playthrough of the mass effect series i used texmod to mod ashleys facial textures onto my char and she looked a million times better. In Mass effect 2, she only had like a 5 min cameo, and she still gets textures that are better than the ones in chargen....It was the same in Me3, honestly the main character just looks so out of place and ridiculous. The male characters looked a bit better because they had more detail to them, but the female ones look like chucky the killer doll and penniwise the killer clown had a love child made out of wax. The difference in the level of detail is quite staggering, like the little wrinkles on the lips... i love that, and thats how lips are supposed to look. This was all fine and dandy when modders got around to fixing it, but now we know how diffcult frostbite is to mod, and even if it wasnt, it would still take some time. This is one of those things that ive been ruminating on for years and id really like this to be taken into consideration.... im sure im not the only one who feels this way. 

[Nefla]

I hope for this too

[Vegeta93]

Then use the default face in Dai there much better. Sheploo looks much better in mass eneyway.

[Scerene]

lol, i dont want to use the default face. That's the whole point. I'm not interested in playing a man, and making my own character is important to me. If modders can make it so you can get better textures in char creation, why shouldnt the developers making it be able to?

[Mes]

Fair enough regarding ME, but this is Dragon Age. I didn't notice any texture differences between custom characters and others in DAO or DA2. Did you?

[Ryzaki]

Fair enough regarding ME, but this is Dragon Age. I didn't notice any texture differences between custom characters and others in DAO or DA2. Did you?

 

Yeah this. DA is pretty consistent with the PC's face textures compared to everyone else. In ME it was utterly ridiculous though true.

[Mes]

Yeah this. DA is pretty consistent with the PC's face textures compared to everyone else. In ME it was utterly ridiculous though true.

 

Yeah I was very disappointingly forced to play as Sheploo because custom characters looked way too crap by comparison.  Oh well, he grew on me.

 

Don't see the correlation between that and Dragon Age. This thread would be perfect for the ME4 forums.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah I was very disappointingly forced to play as Sheploo because custom characters looked way too crap by comparison.  Oh well, he grew on me.

 

Don't see the correlation between that and Dragon Age. This thread would be perfect for the ME4 forums.

 

Pfft I rather deal with ugly face textures than sheploo so I managed Which is a shame because he makes my heart go doki doki with longer hair~

 

Agreed. Should nip that in the bud now.

[Hiemoth]

Fair enough regarding ME, but this is Dragon Age. I didn't notice any texture differences between custom characters and others in DAO or DA2. Did you?

 

To be fair, DAO didn't have specifically built character appearances for PCs, as all the faces were created with the same character creator. Thus, there would be no differences between the set faces and custom created faces. Unless you are discussing the PCs and NPCs, at which point there was huge difference in the details of character features, as you could not recreate those faces with the character creator.

 

The set characters, though, in ME, both Sheploo and FemShep in ME, and DA2 were a lot more detailed than what you could create with the character creator, so the OP actually has a point in their complaint. As a simple exercise to prove this, try to create those faces or something as close to details in the character creator.

 

However, the unfortunate answer to OPs question, at least as far as I understand the issue, is that it would be nearly impossible for the custom characters to have as much detail as those pre-rendered faces. The thing is, each additional detail or number of active points in the face, would cause the complexity of the character creation increase exponentially, as the custom face needs to work in all different cinematics without seeming absurd and not break down. Additionally, the increased amount of sliders and checks would make the custom face creator such a task to operate that it would probably becoming a breaking question for some players. Even SA4, which probably has the most detailed character creator I've seen in a AAA game, had to really resort to simplicity with the character face, which makes it seem really weird in some cut-scenes compared to the actual NPCs.

 

Ultimately, it is a question of compromise. You can create your own faces, but they won't be as detailed, or you will have a set face that is more detailed and reactive, but the only choice. I kind of liked the approach in ME3 and DA2, where you had both options available, but am hesitant about whetever that will be available also in DAI due to the choice of character race. Now that I think of it, that actually makes me a bit sad, as I am such a nitpicker that it took me always ages to create a character face I liked and actually found more enjoyment in just choosing the pre-rendered, more detailed face.

[oceanicsurvivor]

It will be interesting to see the quality of the CC, especially on the next gen systems...not that many ps4/one games (that I know of) have a CC yet. Destiny alpha did, but that was fairly limited compared to the customization level Bioware games allow for.

 

I don't think there will be a 'default' look for the Inquisitor...I mean, the only one whose face we have fully seen is femQunari Mage and I doubt many people would consider that the default. Which is good, I'm glad they are avoiding any real scenario where the player using the CC is changing the 'canon' look for the Inquisitor like it was with Hawke.

[In Exile]

Because developers take into account system specifications modders dont

 

This argument doesn't make sense to me. Why would the textures for a character that is necessarily shown in-game not work for the CC? 

[Scerene]

Ya, im sorry but a lot of the arguments dont make any sense, i used texmod to insert custom texures based on ashley skin and it worked just fine in the character customization. There were no issues whatsoever. in me1-m2-.m3, and they were vastly superior to the ones in the vanilla cc. in one playthrough i even used  a cheat tool to add ashleys skin texture in me2, basically no mods, and it looked and worked great.(i cant remember what it was called, but all you had to do was edit a line in your save, and bam, you get ashleys skin, eyebrows etc. It worked perfectly and it looked great) I dont mean to be rude, but why some of you are acting like im asking for an arm or a leg is beyond me. If you can edit a line in your mass effect 2 save to get an npcs skin and have it work perfectly, then i dont see how this as complicated as some of you are making it out to be. For some reason, the way that the npcs were coded in me3 didnt make this possible, but my favorite modder made an even better skin(based on ashleys) that could be used in the cc(still had to use texmod to insert it though).

 

Im well aware that the differences in dao, dao2 arent as big between companions and the main char, but this is a new game with a new engine, and i just wanted to get my point across in this regard. I really hope its not going to be the same.

 

i also want to add, that i play pretty much all of my games with an extensive list of facial texture mods, and modders have made much better textures for the character creator,that looked and worked beautifully. In dragon age 1-2, , skyrim, oblivion, mass effect etc etc etc If modders can do it, so can the developers, and its hardly this huuuuge resource hog on your system, and even if it was, you have the option to turn down your graphics, just like with anything else. The developers can decide they want mountains to have a certain level of detail at the highest graphical quality, but then a large portion of the playerbase may not be able to experience that because their computers cant handle it, so they have to turn down their graphics. The bottom line is that in most of these games you are going to spend alot of time looking at your character, with a good portion of that being in cutscenes. I personally want to look at a character that is pleasing to my eyes. Im very good with character creators but find myself held back by subpar vanilla textures, and its frustrating to me seeing npcs with nice and detailed textures, when your own character is supposed to be the most important one in the game.

 

edit: By the same, i meant the same or similar to mass effect. I feel pretty uneasy and fearful about it, and its something that i want to bring up before its too late, even if it is falling on deaf ears, atleast i said something.

[Vegeta93]

It will be interesting to see the quality of the CC, especially on the next gen systems...not that many ps4/one games (that I know of) have a CC yet. Destiny alpha did, but that was fairly limited compared to the customization level Bioware games allow for.

 

I don't think there will be a 'default' look for the Inquisitor...I mean, the only one whose face we have fully seen is femQunari Mage and I doubt many people would consider that the default. Which is good, I'm glad they are avoiding any real scenario where the player using the CC is changing the 'canon' look for the Inquisitor like it was with Hawke.

Off course there is a default face for the inquisitor.  Don´t be stupid.

[naddaya]

This argument doesn't make sense to me. Why would the textures for a character that is necessarily shown in-game not work for the CC? 

 

It would work. Textures don't necessarily need a higher resolution to be more detailed, 1024x1024 and even 512x512 worked fine in ME2. And even if they were bigger, we're talking about a few textures here. Not enough to slow anyone's game down compared to vanilla.

[tmp7704]

This argument doesn't make sense to me. Why would the textures for a character that is necessarily shown in-game not work for the CC?

The developers have to keep in mind wide range of hardware specs their game will be played on, including the minimum specs. In contrast, many modders will happily throw 4k+ textures at anything and everything, and if that causes someone's computer choke on it, their reaction is likely to be along lines of "lololol, get a better computer scrub, it works fine for me".

I mean, when talking about ME3 specifically, let's not forget they even skipped on holstering animations so things would fit in the memory budget they had. And these animations use way less memory than even single (extra) texture.

[In Exile]

The developers have to keep in mind wide range of hardware specs their game will be played on, including the minimum specs. In contrast, many modders will happily throw 4k+ textures at anything and everything, and if that causes someone's computer choke on it, their reaction is likely to be along lines of "lololol, get a better computer scrub, it works fine for me".

I mean, when talking about ME3 specifically, let's not forget they even skipped on holstering animations so things would fit in the memory budget they had. And these animations use way less memory than even single (extra) texture.

 

Right, I understand that aspect of the CC. But clearly the textures for, say, Ashley or Kaiden can't break the game at any level of hardware spec (even if we're talking about a range for those textures depending on the graphical settings). The CC displays one face with one set of skin textures at a time - it's a close-up shot that's clearly replicated in the cinematics. 

Sheploo had custom face textures and that could be shown in the CC. So the argument here doesn't make sense to me even with your (quite good and detailed) explanation.

[tmp7704]

Right, I understand that aspect of the CC. But clearly the textures for, say, Ashley or Kaiden can't break the game at any level of hardware spec (even if we're talking about a range for those textures depending on the graphical settings). The CC displays one face with one set of skin textures at a time - it's a close-up shot that's clearly replicated in the cinematics. 
Sheploo had custom face textures and that could be shown in the CC. So the argument here doesn't make sense to me even with your (quite good and detailed) explanation.

I think the concern is mostly about situations when the game has to render multiple characters with full detail (like, during a cutscene e.g.) and so all the higher fidelity textures could add up to dangerous levels. But then on the other hand you mention something I didn't think of -- Sheploo, who does get a higher detail custom face texture if I remember right, and the game handles him ok from start to end. So with that in mind, ME could probably afford to give the same level of quality to the 'generic' face texture of custom Shepard, too, since that would effectively use the same space Sheploo's texture takes if you opt to play him. Why they didn't in the end would be pure guesswork, so i'll refrain from it

[Nefla]

To be fair, DAO didn't have specifically built character appearances for PCs, as all the faces were created with the same character creator. Thus, there would be no differences between the set faces and custom created faces. Unless you are discussing the PCs and NPCs, at which point there was huge difference in the details of character features, as you could not recreate those faces with the character creator.

 

The set characters, though, in ME, both Sheploo and FemShep in ME, and DA2 were a lot more detailed than what you could create with the character creator, so the OP actually has a point in their complaint. As a simple exercise to prove this, try to create those faces or something as close to details in the character creator.

 

However, the unfortunate answer to OPs question, at least as far as I understand the issue, is that it would be nearly impossible for the custom characters to have as much detail as those pre-rendered faces. The thing is, each additional detail or number of active points in the face, would cause the complexity of the character creation increase exponentially, as the custom face needs to work in all different cinematics without seeming absurd and not break down. Additionally, the increased amount of sliders and checks would make the custom face creator such a task to operate that it would probably becoming a breaking question for some players. Even SA4, which probably has the most detailed character creator I've seen in a AAA game, had to really resort to simplicity with the character face, which makes it seem really weird in some cut-scenes compared to the actual NPCs.

 

Ultimately, it is a question of compromise. You can create your own faces, but they won't be as detailed, or you will have a set face that is more detailed and reactive, but the only choice. I kind of liked the approach in ME3 and DA2, where you had both options available, but am hesitant about whetever that will be available also in DAI due to the choice of character race. Now that I think of it, that actually makes me a bit sad, as I am such a nitpicker that it took me always ages to create a character face I liked and actually found more enjoyment in just choosing the pre-rendered, more detailed face.

I just want a much more detailed CC than what we've previously had, then it wouldn't be a problem. If you can customize the light and tone on the skin of each part of the face as well as adding "makeup" to define the eyes and cheeks and being able to add freckles, birth marks, etc...it would be a huge improvement. The Sims and Saints Row (and others) can do it

[Deebo305]

Hmm....seems like a PC problem, I never had these problems when I've play DA or ME on consoles

[Hiemoth]

I just want a much more detailed CC than what we've previously had, then it wouldn't be a problem. If you can customize the light and tone on the skin of each part of the face as well as adding "makeup" to define the eyes and cheeks and being able to add freckles, birth marks, etc...it would be a huge improvement. The Sims and Saints Row (and others) can do it

 

I completely understand your desire, I simply do not necessarily consider a simple task to achieve. Sims itself is not necessarily the best example, as it doesn't actually have cinematics, which I would guess are at the root of the problem. As for SR, I don't actually think it allows you to go the level of detail you describe there, although it has been a while since I played SR4, but it does still have a huge range of detail compared to the DA CC. However, I would also argue that it has a lot cruder cinematic sequences and very often when they focused on the player character, their facial animations seemed either really simple or really weird. Additionally, DA has a lot more dialogue sequences than SR which require close-up reactions from the PC, which I assume further complicates the issue. It was the necessary tradeoff for having such a detailed CC for SR and it was a choice their developers made.

 

True, BW could probably spend a lot of resources on the issue and create an awesome CC that doesn't mess up the cinematics, but BW might have felt that those resources were better spend elsewhere. Note, however, that we don't actually know yet how detailed the DAI CC will be, so this is also hypothetical in that sense. Personally I am fine with pre-rendered, detailed faces, which makes me a bad person to argue about this, and as it is close to your interest, I completely think that you should continue to push for it. I just wanted to bring up reasons why I don't consider it something that is simply executed and that in some cases it does require sacrifices from other parts of the game.

[Nefla]

I completely understand your desire, I simply do not necessarily consider a simple task to achieve. Sims itself is not necessarily the best example, as it doesn't actually have cinematics, which I would guess are at the root of the problem. As for SR, I don't actually think it allows you to go the level of detail you describe there, although it has been a while since I played SR4, but it does still have a huge range of detail compared to the DA CC. However, I would also argue that it has a lot cruder cinematic sequences and very often when they focused on the player character, their facial animations seemed either really simple or really weird. Additionally, DA has a lot more dialogue sequences than SR which require close-up reactions from the PC, which I assume further complicates the issue. It was the necessary tradeoff for having such a detailed CC for SR and it was a choice their developers made.

 

True, BW could probably spend a lot of resources on the issue and create an awesome CC that doesn't mess up the cinematics, but BW might have felt that those resources were better spend elsewhere. Note, however, that we don't actually know yet how detailed the DAI CC will be, so this is also hypothetical in that sense. Personally I am fine with pre-rendered, detailed faces, which makes me a bad person to argue about this, and as it is close to your interest, I completely think that you should continue to push for it. I just wanted to bring up reasons why I don't consider it something that is simply executed and that in some cases it does require sacrifices from other parts of the game.

Even if they didn't let you customize your facial features to the extreme (boo! ) I don't see how being able to add color/tone to different areas of the face or things like freckles would mess with cinematics at all

[Deebo305]

Even if they didn't let you customize your facial features to the extreme (boo! ) I don't see how being able to add color/tone to different areas of the face or things like freckles would mess with cinematics at all

That much I do agree on, not having scars or blemishes of any kind always felt strange in DA. Even while covered in blood I felt my guy looked to clean for a battle hardened warrior or battle tested mage

But still I CC hasn't shown yet so this may change but I still doubt it'll go as in-depth as you guys want

[naddaya]

That much I do agree on, not having scars or blemishes of any kind always felt strange in DA. Even while covered in blood I felt my guy looked to clean for a battle hardened warrior or battle tested mage

But still I CC hasn't shown yet so this may change but I still doubt it'll go as in-depth as you guys want

Adding bruises and scraps would require as much as adding make-up. Not a big deal. I'd take bruises any day xD