Okay so the general consensus is she seems mean-spirited
She allows nothing to stand in her way. That's where the true problems start. I see her as someone who uses everyone to her own ends, someone who does everything it takes no matter what for achieving her own goals.
I honestly don't understand why we should let her join.
Like she could be the best friend you never had
I don't think she has or needs friends. It's rather you're her "friend" as long as you're useful.
She allows nothing to stand in her way. That's where the true problems start. I see her as someone who uses everyone to her own ends, someone who does everything it takes no matter what for achieving her own goals.
I honestly don't understand why we should let her join.
I think the biggest hurdle is that she's openly pro-Circle... obviously pro-mage players are going to take issue with that, but as long as she doesn't try to interfere with the PC's agenda, it shouldn't be a problem.
Actually, there is also the fact that she is a friend of Empress Celene... so... if the Inquisition becomes involved in the Orlesian civil war and is forced to take sides, her loyalty may come into question. So yeah, there are a couple of concerns, but IMO other characters have given me the impression that they could cause just as much conflict with their stated ideologies... only time will tell who becomes a problem and who doesn't on a given playthrough.
I think the biggest hurdle is that she's openly pro-Circle... obviously pro-mage players are going to take issue with that, but as long as she doesn't try to interfere with the PC's agenda, it shouldn't be a problem
Who's gonna believe in that? 
So yeah, there are a couple of concerns, but IMO other characters have given me the impression that they could cause just as much conflict with their stated ideologies...
They can cause troubles, but how should I put it... they're nobodies. But she? She's something different. She's been involved with these political games long before we became the Inquisitor. I don't think we can win here.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Okay so the general consensus is she seems mean-spirited. Honestly I don't know what that means. Because I can characterize just about anyone in a position of authority as such if I do not know them up to and including the main protagonist of this game....though they are thrust into that position and that would be the underlying difference. I don't know Vivienne. I want to...and I sure as heck would have tried to romance her.
I should also point out that I am black and woman and lesbian. I'm big on representation...not cookie cutter but realistic. I don't know how Viv is yet so I can't say anything about her. That's the perspective i'm coming from. Like she could be the best friend you never had but to her political opponents and such, a terror. Feel me? There is one more than one facet to her personality and the worse part shouldn't be the focus by default...if that is even the worst part. The story is yet to come....
Well look at it this way... First impressions often count for something. Don't know how many times people have been wrong about me, and I've been wrong about people a couple of times myself. All based on first impressions.
She comes off as eloquently rude, snobbish, and ruthless. The first two are qualities that I don't appreciate in any measure.
i feel the same way. It was just answer a particular question. Couldve i worded it better most definatly, i often forget that i could say something that may lack context for some again apologiesI'm such a noob with this forum thing...smh.Anyway, i only quoted this to say I am a part of that alleged cynicism you speak of. As I am black. So I know the perspective that us cynics are coming from when we speak about lack of representation or the way we are represented the few times we are in gaming.I really don't want the dislike to be about...this. I'm not here for it.
I'm kind of interested to see what connections Vivienne's circle ties and Celene connections have to her interaction with Inq myself.. It has a lot of potential for roleplaying. One character might be pro-circle, pro-Gaspard, for instance, and really confuse things. Or go a different way entirely, for a different kind of relationship. Good times.
Who's gonna believe in that?
They can cause troubles, but how should I put it... they're nobodies. But she? She's something different. She's been involved with these political games long before we became the Inquisitor. I don't think we can win here.
Well, if you're that worried, it's a good thing that she can be driven out/fired then, eh? 
She can't cause problems if we send her back to Orlais, and there are 2 other mages who can fill her role in combat.
Well, if you're that worried, it's a good thing that she can be driven out/fired then, eh?
I'm not worried, but aware.
I wonder, we can not recruit someone at all? Like Iron Bull? "Firing someone" seems tricky.
She can't cause problems if we send her back to Orlais
Oooh, I really doubt it. I think she can cause problems from any place she's in.
Also, her being pro-Circle wouldn't stop me from being friends with her
Being pro-circle and wanting to rebuild it is a little different.
i feel the same way. It was just answer a particular question. Couldve i worded it better most definatly, i often forget that i could say something that may lack context for some again apologies
I wonder, we can not recruit someone at all? Like Iron Bull? "Firing someone" seems tricky.
Some recruitments are optional, but I don't know which ones... I hope that firing a companion is as simple as DA:O where the Warden can just walk up and say, "I want you gone." But who knows... I don't like the idea of having to be rude to them over and over until they lose approval and leave voluntarily... that's just not my style. 
thank you for you insight*polite bow*No need for apologies, my dear. I didn't take offense to that. I understand that POV. Just offering mine as well.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
I don't like the idea of having to be rude to them over and over until they lose approval and leave voluntarily... that's just not my style.
I agree. That's pretty damn petty coming from someone who's going to be called the 'Herald of Andraste' even if justified from some event that happens during the game's story.
I don't like the idea of having to be rude to them over and over until they lose approval and leave voluntarily... that's just not my style.
Me neither.
It's easier not to let them in than doing something like that, even something like forcing Fenris to leave. Because I feel like sh*t doing that... so I don't, duh.
Me neither.
It's easier not to let them in than doing something like that, even something like forcing Fenris to leave. Because I feel like sh*t doing that...
so I don't, duh.
Welp you can always sell him back to his master.
Not that I ever did that myself.
Well I never!
Yeah, I can't roleplay at all. And I'm a lousy mage. Can't even keep some slaves or sell one.
Welp you can always sell him back to his master.
Not that I ever did that myself.
*notices fine print*
I'm kind of interested to see what connections Vivienne's circle ties and Celene connections have to her interaction with Inq myself.. It has a lot of potential for roleplaying. One character might be pro-circle, pro-Gaspard, for instance, and really confuse things. Or go a different way entirely, for a different kind of relationship. Good times.
Plenty of reasons to be wary of her. Especially for people who are pro-mages, for example, she sounds like a thorn in the side. I also don't happen to be fond of these politicians at all, for they're all two-faced slippery snakes.That's pretty much about it.
I would say that is an understandable position to take.
Well, my first Inquisitor has no first hand experience with the Circle, the Templars, or Orlais, so he won't have any strong opinions on these issues. This will give Vivienne plenty of opportunity to present her case and there's a good chance that he will see the wisdom in her views... she's obviously some kind of important official in the human world, after all, so she has to know what she's talking about... right? Unless her agenda involves conquering the world or bringing about a Tevinter-style mageocracy (which I doubt), I see very little potential for conflict between the characters...
I'll be saving my more opinionated Inquisitors for subsequent playthroughs... the whole point of the first character was to design somebody who would be neutral enough to recruit every party member and give them all a fair chance at being heard and accepted. I don't expect the game to end with him being friends with everyone, but there's no initial political bias to worry about.
Yeah, there's a few characters that I think will be all over the place in terms of approval. Especially for my first Inquisitor, (my awesome avatar). Like, I'm not convinced Vivienne would care much for her personality wise, but trying to think of opinions and views where they disagree, or at least would do something differently, I'm having trouble. I feel like with Viv, they have such wildly different thought processes but are reaching the same conclusions, so I'm worried I'll be losing approval for her personality, but gaining it for the decisions and just winding up somewhere in the middle.
Same here. My Inquisitor will most likely have a wildly different personality from Viv so i'm hoping my decisions win her over because my opinions (anti-circle) probably won't.
the whole point of the first character was to design somebody who would be neutral enough to recruit every party member and give them all a fair chance at being heard and accepted.
That's a little idealistic. 
I would like to do that, but I simply can't. And I'm not the only one in that I'm sure.
I can't roleplay as an elf because I do understand them somehow, but I can't.. well, imagine myself one and genuinely roleplay as one. I find their lore and history interesting, but I can never call humans names and such and see the dalish as some higher beings. The same goes for pro-chantry human nobles. Boring and repulsive. Dwarves I don't find interesting at all. Qunari... given they're a vashoth - maybe, but male ones looks fugly as hell in DAI. And I have no reason to play as a female because Dorian, omg.
It leaves only human mage available and I can't see him being neutral in all of this because I can't play as someone self-hating and pathetic like Bethany or Wynne.
And there's also a possibility that I won't do a second playthrough at all so I will try hard not to srew up my first (and only) one.
Same here. My Inquisitor will most likely have a wildly different personality from Viv so i'm hoping my decisions win her over because my opinions (anti-circle) probably won't.
I like the idea of decisions affecting relationships for good or ill. I will probably do 2 games simultaneously, with different personalities. She seems to be one of the more complex companions, and I can't wait to see how different it gets to be.
That's a little idealistic.
I would like to do that, but I simply can't. And I'm not the only one in that I'm sure.
I can't roleplay as an elf because I do understand them somehow, but I can't.. well, imagine myself one and genuinely roleplay as one. I find their lore and history interesting, but I can never call humans names and such and see the dalish as some higher beings. The same goes for pro-chantry human nobles. Boring and repulsive. Dwarves I don't find interesting at all. Qunari... given they're a vashoth - maybe, but male ones looks fugly as hell in DAI. And I have no reason to play as a female
because Dorian, omg.It leaves only human mage available and I can't see him being neutral in all of this because I can't play as someone self-hating and pathetic like Bethany or Wynne.
If you can't play as an elf, and can't imagine a character who actually is neutral towards human politics, why are you calling me idealistic? A Dalish elf living in the Free Marches would have no idea what Orlais is like and would have very little knowledge of the politics surrounding mages in the human lands. If they are not a mage, they would have no specific reason to interfere in the mage vs. Templar conflict after they've gone out into the world and found out about the Circle... It makes more sense for them to ask for input from the people this will actually effect: their human advisors and companions. None of this is based on idealism. Even the basic description I just gave is a legitimate and realistic character, unless you can point out some flaw in my design? Or are you saying that my goal of creating a neutral character in the first place is idealistic? I disagree with that as well.
And there's also a possibility that I won't do a second playthrough at all so I will try hard not to srew up my first (and only) one.
*shrugs* If you're only going to play the game once, then I guess you will have to play as an opinionated self-insert and then deal with the backlash from that... no skin off my back.
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