5943 réponses à ce sujet

[TheTurtle]

Because she's willing to throw every last mage under the templars' bus if it suits her. She doesn't give a damn about the plight of a people she escaped from by brownnosing her way into the Orlesian nobility. She's a callous, hypocritical, snobbish collaborationist.

When has she ever been hypocritical about anything we've barley heard her speak. Also she doesn't approve of the Templars that are slaughtering mages she say they're soiling the name

[Nohvarr]

They wouldn't be fighting against one another if one group of mages wasn't apparently taking issue with the rest of the mages wanting to survive.

 

So.....mages who disagree should shut up and fall into line? They should allow these other mages to pour fuel on peoples fears and make things worse?

 

And it wasn't a small group; it was most of the Circle.

Oh....I thought it was the leadership of the Circles, you know the most politically powerful mages who are unlikely to be on the front line. They can send wave after waves of more expendable mages to do their dirty work.

 

If that's honestly what you believe, that's your call, but again, I am not seeing it.

[veeia]

Because she's willing to throw every last mage under the templars' bus if it suits her. She doesn't give a damn about the plight of a people she escaped from by brownnosing her way into the Orlesian nobility. She's a callous, hypocritical, snobbish collaborationist.

You've certainly formed a full picture of her from the limited fragments we have....

[AresKeith]

When has she ever been hypocritical about anything we've barley heard her speak. Also she doesn't approve of the Templars that are slaughtering mages she say they're soiling the name

I like how some people are ignoring that

[Yinello]

She said mean things about mages, we should totes hate her.

[Neesa]

Didn't sound sarcastic when she said it.

 

It really sounded like she was merely quoting what was said when they voted for independence, tbh. I get the distinct impression she's more annoyed with the rebels for possibly undoing all her efforts in court. In any case we should probably wait to learn of the 'intolerable conditions' put forth.

 

 

I just want to note that Vivienne is not the first enchanter to a circle of magi. Her position at Montsimmard is disputed and was never made official.

 

Pretty sure Mike Laidlaw said she was First Enchanter in one of the magazines. The one with all the character blurbs with everyone standing around the war table.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Because she's willing to throw every last mage under the templars' bus if it suits her. She doesn't give a damn about the plight of a people she escaped from by brownnosing her way into the Orlesian nobility. She's a callous, hypocritical, snobbish collaborationist.

 

She actually says that she's willing to sell out her fellow mages to the templars? I guess I missed that part in the stream, because what I remember her saying is that she doesn't agree with Pro-Independence mage faction because of their shortsightedness and horrible sense of timing. Not because she's a social climber in bed with the Order or Orlais. Not saying she isn't but you got to admit you're being sort of hyperbolic and jumping to conclusions.

 

Hope that doesn't come off as condescending, Xil. 

[raging_monkey]

I need something strong, I think.  I'll have one of those "Shirley Templars," Monkey... xD

*passes shirley templar loaded with extra absinth* your gonna need it

[Xilizhra]

When has she ever been hypocritical about anything we've barley heard her speak. Also she doesn't approve of the Templars that are slaughtering mages she say they're soiling the name

That wasn't the Red Templars she was speaking of?

 

 

So.....mages who disagree should shut up and fall into line? They should allow these other mages to pour fuel on peoples fears and make things worse?

Stay out of the fighting if they so choose, yes. Actually side with the murderous fiends currently slaughtering the other mages, no.

 

 

Oh....I thought it was the leadership of the Circles, you know the most politically powerful mages who are unlikely to be on the front line. They can send wave after waves of more expendable mages to do their dirty work.

 

If that's honestly what you believe, that's your call, but again, I am not seeing it.

I seriously doubt Rhys would have voted for secession if he didn't see it as what was best for and supported by the people.

[AresKeith]

She said mean things about mages, we should totes hate her.

*Joker voice*: say one little bad thing about mages, and everyone loses their minds

[ComedicSociopathy]

If Viv wants to build a Mage Tower at Skyhold i am all for that wonder if she will let my Mage Inqusitor be a teacher that would be cool.What do you guys think?

 

Oh that would be awesome wouldn't it. 

[Yinello]

It really sounded like she was merely quoting what was said when they voted for independence, tbh. I get the distinct impression she's more annoyed with the rebels for possibly undoing all her efforts in court. In any case we should probably wait to learn of the 'intolerable conditions' put forth.

Quite possible. I'd be annoyed if my plans to get higher up as possibly Mage representative got thwarted by irrationality.

[Xilizhra]

She actually says that willing to sell out her fellow mages to the templars? I guess I missed that part in the stream, because what I remember her saying is that she doesn't agree with Pro-Independence mage faction because of their shortsightedness and horrible sense of timing. Not because she's a social climber in bed with the Order or Orlais. Not saying she isn't but got to admit you're being sort of hyperbolic and jumping to conclusions.

 

Hope that doesn't come off as condescending, Xil. 

Her support of the status quo is support of systematic and unrelenting atrocities, that the mages should apparently just shut up and take.

[Kyno]

It really sounded like she was merely quoting what was said when they voted for independence, tbh. I get the distinct impression she's more annoyed with the rebels for possibly undoing all her efforts in court. In any case we should probably wait to learn of the 'intolerable conditions' put forth.

 

 

 

Pretty sure Mike Laidlaw said she was First Enchanter in one of the magazines. The one with all the character blurbs with everyone standing around the war table.

 

According to her wiki page (I know, not the best of sources), it says she was set to be appointed the First Enchanter, however the Mage-Templar War and Orlesian Civil War interfered before she could assume the position. 

[revan11exile]

If Viv wants to build a Mage Tower at Skyhold i am all for that wonder if she will let my Mage Inqusitor be a teacher that would be cool.What do you guys think?

I would also like to rebuild other Mage Towers as well if possible

[TheTurtle]

Her support of the status quo is support of systematic and unrelenting atrocities, that the mages should apparently just shut up and take.

Or you know support of not wanting to start a goddamn war that some people didn't want in the first place.

[veeia]

I think she more believes that if they take things violently, they will lose them. Either mages take control (unlikely)or they become even more despised. People don't have sympathy for violent revolutionaries that destabilize their lives, as Viv knows. Whether her strategy is sound or just one she can embrace due to her relative privilege is up for debate, but simply disagreeing with some mage's methods doesn't mean she doesn't care or want to work for the good of mages. It doesn't mean she does either. We honestly don't have enough information to make solid claims yet.

[Xilizhra]

Or you know support of not wanting to start a goddamn war that some people didn't want in the first place.

They didn't start a war, the templars did after the Chantry refused to declare it.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Because she's willing to throw every last mage under the templars' bus if it suits her. She doesn't give a damn about the plight of a people she escaped from by brownnosing her way into the Orlesian nobility. She's a callous, hypocritical, snobbish collaborationist.

 

That seems like a surprising amount of information for BioWare to give about Vivienne, when none of the other new characters have had so much revealed about them. When did they reveal all of this information? Just recently? I don't keep up with the Streams, but I would have assumed that they would have only shown small, out-of-context scenes that don't reveal much in the way of spoiler information. It's surprising that they would take such an extreme position on their own character. In fact, it's so surprising, that without any evidence presented to support it, I kind of assume that you're making things up.

 

And what do you mean by "collaborationist?" I really, really hope you're not dumping Godwin's Law onto a fan thread. That would be incredibly unfair to the other members participating in the discussion.

[TheTurtle]

They didn't start a war, the templars did after the Chantry refused to declare it.

Yeah the templars dexlared war after the circles voted to become independent a decision that anyone could see would only lead to violence. Which is exactly why someone like Vivienne wouldn't want ot

[MisterJB]

I'm liking Vivienne. She's got a really good head on her shoulders.

[Xilizhra]

Yeah the templars dexlared war after the circles voted to become independent a decision that anyone could see would only lead to violence. Which is exactly why someone like Vivienne wouldn't want ot

Had the templars not left the Chantry, it wouldn't have led to violence.

[BullionRouge]

I am like  about all these folks insisting Vivienne is a horrible, hypocritical, satan worshipping, puppy slaying, horrid meanie bald person. I mean...wow.

 

There are three ways to attempt to get what you want.

1. By violence: War, terrorism, etc.

2. By negotiation/barter/diplomacy/economics or kind of peaceful means.

 

IMO Vivienne to me is simply someone who believes violence/war is bad (probably as bad if not worse than swooping) and causes more harm than good. Gandhi felt the same way about British occupation. Martin Luther felt the same way about racism. It didn't mean they were cool with being oppressed or anything.  It doesn't make them TEH EEBIL because they didn't say- KILL ALL WHO HAVE EVER OPPRESSED US EVER CUZ THEY SUX, either? It doesn't make Vivienne a b-word either?

[AresKeith]

Had the templars not left the Chantry, it wouldn't have led to violence.

Can we not turn this into a MT thread

[Xilizhra]

I am like  about all these folks insisting Vivienne is a horrible, hypocritical, satan worshipping, puppy slaying, horrid meanie bald person. I mean...wow.

 

There are three ways to attempt to get what you want.

1. By violence: War, terrorism, etc.

2. By negotiation/barter/diplomacy/economics or kind of peaceful means.

 

IMO Vivienne to me is simply someone who believes violence/war is bad (probably as bad if not worse than swooping) and causes more harm than good. Gandhi felt the same way about British occupation. Martin Luther felt the same way about racism. It didn't mean they were cool with being oppressed or anything.  It doesn't make them TEH EEBIL because they didn't say- KILL ALL WHO HAVE EVER OPPRESSED US EVER CUZ THEY SUX, either? It doesn't make Vivienne a b-word either?

The thing is that the mages did not declare war on the Chantry; that never happened. They voted to secede from the Chantry, and the Chantry did not initiate violence in response. Everything comes down to the brutality of the templars in the end.