5943 réponses à ce sujet

[ComedicSociopathy]

Her support of the status quo is support of systematic and unrelenting atrocities, that the mages should apparently just shut up and take.

 

Alright, one. Are you trollling for fun? I'm seriously asking if you're sincerely trying to defend your point or just arguing for the lolz. I just felt my troll senses tingling for a second and just want to confirm with you if they were right.

 

If not, then I apologize for the accusation.  

If so, then carry on buddy because this is a fun ride. 

 

Two, she does mention that she thought the Templars terms were intolerable, so obviously she doesn't quite support them. And before you ask, no, I don't think she was being sarcastic about that. 

[veeia]

Yeah I'm actually pro-revolution tbh, but I'm not down with the Viv bashing. She had her own perspective and motivations that are undoubtedly more complex than "I'm a selfish b****".

I can respect disagreeing with her! But it's be nice if people took the time to listen and think. (I feel the same way about Anders fwiw)

[Xilizhra]

Alright, one. Are you trollling for fun? I'm seriously asking if you're sincerely trying to defend your point or just arguing for the lolz. I just felt my troll senses tingling for a second and just want to confirm with you if they were right.

 

If not, then I apologize for the accusation.

If so, then carry on buddy because this is a fun ride. 

 

Two, she does mention that she thought the Templars terms were intolerable, so obviously she doesn't quite support them. And before you ask, no, I don't think she was being sarcastic about that. 

No, I'm not trolling.

 

And if not sarcasm, than quoting what other mages (likely Fiona) said, not her own opinion. If they were actually intolerable, than her opposition to the mages not just shutting up and enduring them makes no sense.

 

 

Yeah I'm actually pro-revolution tbh, but I'm not down with the Viv bashing. She had her own perspective and motivations that are undoubtedly more complex than "I'm a selfish b****".

I can respect disagreeing with her! But it's be nice if people took the time to listen and think. (I feel the same way about Anders fwiw)

Everyone is complex, but that doesn't make everyone's opinion worth seeing as equal.

[ComedicSociopathy]

 

And what do you mean by "collaborationist?" I really, really hope you're not dumping Godwin's Law onto a fan thread. That would be incredibly unfair to the other members participating in the discussion.

 

Oh, I hope she/he is. That might being the conversation back to Nazis, and I just love comparing fictional characters to those wacky Nazi's. It's like adding dumping gasoline to an orphanage on fire.

 

Glorious. 

[ComedicSociopathy]

The thing is that the mages did not declare war on the Chantry; that never happened. They voted to secede from the Chantry, and the Chantry did not initiate violence in response. Everything comes down to the brutality of the templars in the end.

 

Yeah, got to agree with you there. The Templars really did go all aggro once the Mages secede. 

[TheTurtle]

The thing is that the mages did not declare war on the Chantry; that never happened. They voted to secede from the Chantry, and the Chantry did not initiate violence in response. Everything comes down to the brutality of the templars in the end.

You mean the people who know first hand what it's like dealing with mages day in and day out, Who are really at this point the only thing protecting mages from themselves. You really think you're average citizen who has heard about the incident at Kirkwall and the assassination attempt on Justina would just sit idly by as mages ran about the country governing themselves?
 

[PCThug]

I like that there's a "Talk about our friends" option on her dialogue wheel. I'm a sucker for gossip.

[BullionRouge]

The thing is that the mages did not declare war on the Chantry; that never happened. They voted to secede from the Chantry, and the Chantry did not initiate violence in response. Everything comes down to the brutality of the templars in the end.

Don't go meta on me, bro. I mean, all we know is that skirmishes happened both ways- templars oppressing mages, mages turning into demons and murdering people, and that dynamic changed permanently when a mage EXPLODED a chantry killing hundreds of people. So,  the mages seceded. It could have happened in multiple ways.

a. Mages go "PAAARTY!!" - go on a drunken binge and end up with nasty nasty hangovers, but go back to normal.

b. Peacefully go about their independent way gathering herbs and making potions, each of them a benevolent mentor-type dispensing wisdom and healing through the lands.

c. Go on a murderous magely rampage against the world! 

 

We don't know if this secession was peaceful. Maybe many went on a rampage and caused the templars to retaliate. Maybe they were being peaceful and the templars went on a lurium fuelled rampage against them. I am just saying that statement of hers is not enough to dub her ebil. 

 

The mage/templar situation is way more complicated than pinning all the blame on one. 

[Xilizhra]

You mean the people who know first hand what it's like dealing with mages day in and day out, Who are really at this point the only thing protecting mages from themselves. You really think you're average citizen who has heard about the incident at Kirkwall and the assassination attempt on Justina would just sit idly by as mages ran about the country governing themselves?
 

I don't know, we never got a chance to see. If that's the templars' concern, they should be trying to protect the mages, not murdering them.

[Barquiel]

Yeah I'm actually pro-revolution tbh, but I'm not down with the Viv bashing. She had her own perspective and motivations that are undoubtedly more complex than "I'm a selfish b****".

I can respect disagreeing with her! But it's be nice if people took the time to listen and think. (I feel the same way about Anders fwiw)

 

That's how I see it too. It seems that I will disagree with Vivienne's views, but that doesn't mean I cannot enjoy her as a character.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I like that there's a "Talk about our friends" option on her dialogue wheel. I'm a sucker for gossip.

 

I can already tell that's going to be deliciously mean-spirited and funny. Got to love the gossiping Alpha-Female. 

[Sir Froggie]

I like that there's a "Talk about our friends" option on her dialogue wheel. I'm a sucker for gossip.

I must have missed that one. That could be priceless, lol.

[Icy Magebane]

I don't know, we never got a chance to see. If that's the templars' concern, they should be trying to protect the mages, not murdering them.

The Templars don't kill anyone who follows the law.  Yes, there are corrupt Templars out there, but they are the exception to the rule, not the norm.  Corruption exists in all forms of law enforcement, so to focus so heavily on this one aspect of the Templars is unfair.

[Xilizhra]

Don't go meta on me, bro. I mean, all we know is that skirmishes happened both ways- templars oppressing mages, mages turning into demons and murdering people, and that dynamic changed permanently when a mage EXPLODED a chantry killing hundreds of people. So,  the mages seceded. It could have happened in multiple ways.

a. Mages go "PAAARTY!!" - go on a drunken binge and end up with nasty nasty hangovers, but go back to normal.

b. Peacefully go about their independent way gathering herbs and making potions, each of them a benevolent mentor-type dispensing wisdom and healing through the lands.

c. Go on a murderous magely rampage against the world! 

 

We don't know if this secession was peaceful. Maybe many went on a rampage and caused the templars to retaliate. Maybe they were being peaceful and the templars went on a lurium fuelled rampage against them. I am just saying that statement of hers is not enough to dub her ebil. 

 

The mage/templar situation is way more complicated than pinning all the blame on one. 

Actually, we do know how. It's in Asunder.

[Xilizhra]

The Templars don't kill anyone who follows the law.  Yes, there are corrupt Templars out there, but they are the exception to the rule, not the norm.  Corruption exists in all forms of law enforcement, so to focus so heavily on this one aspect of the Templars is unfair.

Murdering them now, in the war.

[TK514]

I don't know, we never got a chance to see. If that's the templars' concern, they should be trying to protect the mages, not murdering them.

Hard to protect someone who refuses to be protected.

[Xilizhra]

Hard to protect someone who refuses to be protected.

Just walk up to them and say "We'll join your side to protect you from mobs and demons alike." It might be tense, but as long as they didn't try to take over, not impossible.

[MisterJB]

People are seriously making too much of an, from what I've read, haven't watched the stream yet, harmless and noncomittal comment.

All she was saying is that magical violence and acts of terrorism are only going to make the people of the world they wish to be free to live on even more afraid and thus hostile towards them.

It's something anyone with a functinoing brain cell could tell us. Speaking from a Pro-Templar perspective, I can see myself working with her because she appears to be reasonable but it was quite obvious her comments were focused on how their actions influenced the perception of mages to normal people and thus how they would negativelly affect anything they wished to accomplish rather than taking a moral stance.

Basically, the focus of her attention seemed to still be the mages and thus, I don't believe, as of now, that I could, for instance, order the execution of mages who surrendered and not be reprimanded by her.

[raging_monkey]

This used to be a safe thread... away from the fighting... now my bar is getting trashed

Ironic how we had a talk about defending viv last week XD

[PCThug]

Anyone notice another option on her wheel says "Any chance we might..."

Guess you can find out why she's not a romance option fairly quickly. Not that that I think they needed to explain but that's neither here nor there.

[Icy Magebane]

Murdering them now, in the war.

If they submit and return to the Circle, then there wouldn't be any need to kill them.  Resisting arrest in Thedas is punishable by death.  This is only a war from the perspective of the mages... in truth it is closer to a police action than anything else.

[introverted_assassin]

I'm not here for reaching to find a reason to dislike Vivienne. That...nah. I'll come back later.

[Xilizhra]

If they submit and return to the Circle, then there wouldn't be any need to kill them.  Resisting arrest in Thedas is punishable by death.  This is only a war from the perspective of the mages... in truth it is closer to a police action than anything else.

If the templars were still working for the Chantry, that might have been the case... but they're not. The Templar Order has no authority over mages itself; that's entirely the Chantry before secession.

[Karim_A]

Actually Vivienne is officially the First Enchanter of Montsimmard. 

 

https://twitter.com/...556904712196096

[Icy Magebane]

This used to be a safe thread... away from the fighting... now my bar is getting trashed

Ironic how we had a talk about defending viv last week XD

rofl that's true... I didn't expect it to start before the game's release though...

 

Anyone notice another option on her wheel says "Any chance we might..."

Guess you can find out why she's not a romance option fairly quickly. Not that that I think they needed to explain but that's neither here nor there.

Interesting... a lot of people were hoping to flirt with her, so this might be their chance.  I'll just be reading about the results on the forum though... xD