5943 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  I like her poise and control. 

 

I also like her confidence - which I don't see as arrogance.  Arrogance - to me - is when you have less power than you portray.  To me - Vivienne simply doesn't care what her lessers think of her - or, at least it appears this way.

I like that she has opinions - and of course I like that her opinions are in sync with my own. 

 

I also like - even a little more confirmed by her trailer - that she's actually more concerned with the world around her, than she is with herself.  This might not be true - but it certainly isn't true with people like Fiona and Adrian who are only concerned about mages because they are mages - and, in the end, as Adrian displays - even when a mage proves inconvenient to her own designs - she's ready to throw her best friend under the bus.

 

Who else she is?  I am not sure - and at the end of the day I may not like her - but what I have seen, I have liked a great deal.

How does one become an Orlesian gamester without throwing many, many people under the bus?

 

 

She's the only Circle mage we know of that didn't go FREEDOOOM! and actually decries the actions of those who did. With the last two games shoving the mage's plight down our throats, that makes her very interesting.

 

Also, she's ambitious. Not "Rawr! I have power! I have demons! Bow down to me!" but manipulatively ambitious. And I do like manipulative characters.

Thus regrettably filling a role that I find deplorable, in diluting the truth of the mage plight. Unless it turns out to not be that way in-game, but that'd presumably make you like her less.

[Keroko]

How does one become an Orlesian gamester without throwing many, many people under the bus?

 
You don't.
 

Thus regrettably filling a role that I find deplorable, in diluting the truth of the mage plight. Unless it turns out to not be that way in-game, but that'd presumably make you like her less.

Not really. I'm not interested in her just because she spoke out against the rebels, I'm interested in her because I want to know what her motivations are for doing so. It could very well be we're about to hear another side of the mage's plight.

[Xilizhra]

You don't.

Then how is she different from Adrian in that regard?

 

 

Not really. I'm not interested in her just because she spoke out against the rebels, I'm interested in her because I want to know what her motivations are for doing so. It could very well be we're about to hear another side of the mage's plight.

What, the side the templars spout? I think we've heard enough of that already. Unless you refer to different aspects of the plight not related to attacking the seceded.

[Akkos]

Actually, I never said she was a horrible character. I'm trying to analyze her fans' reactions and opinions.

 

I'm quite surpised, you are starting to like Vivienne my dear...

 

I thought you'd expect this place to be an entourage for now as long as you are still active in this thread.

[Keroko]

Then how is she different from Adrian in that regard?

Depends on the people she threw under a bus. Also, she seems to have a better grasp of actions and their consequences.

What, the side the templars spout? I think we've heard enough of that already. Unless you refer to different aspects of the plight not related to attacking the seceded.

I don't know, that's why I'm curious. She's a mage with power, something the rogue templars do not like. Yet, she does not side with the rebel mages either.

I want to know why.

[Xilizhra]

I don't know, that's why I'm curious. She's a mage with power, something the rogue templars do not like. Yet, she does not side with the rebel mages either.

I want to know why.

Don't be so sure.

 

Spoiler

She collaborates with Fiona in throwing a ball.

[RobRam10]

Don't be so sure.

 

Spoiler

She collaborates with Fiona in throwing a ball.

Where did you find this?

[Xilizhra]

Where did you find this?

One of the reviews. Granted, it might have been garbled, but I can't think of anyone else the reviewer could have mistaken for her.

[Keroko]

Don't be so sure.
 

Spoiler

She collaborates with Fiona in throwing a ball.

That in combination with the speech she gives your inquisitor on the war only adds more questions I want answers to, thus making her even more interesting.

[Xilizhra]

That in combination with the speech she gives your inquisitor on the war only adds more questions I want answers to, thus making her even more interesting.

Alas. Interesting she certainly is... but if I like her, it'll probably be for far different reasons than others do.

[raging_monkey]

That in combination with the speech she gives your inquisitor on the war only adds more questions I want answers to, thus making her even more interesting.

Spoiler

maybe viv isnt truly pro circle but actually a conservative pro mage

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  Because she's playing The Game - she's amongst others also playing The Game.  While I'm sure particularly cruel Orlesians involve peasants in their games... I wager it is not at all required to involve anyone not actually dipping a toe into the water. Rhys wasn't playing a political game with Adrian, Adrian was manipulating and playing the mage order to serve her purposes.

 

Adrian betrayed her supposed best friend for disgusting - petty - reasons... which I think Vivienne would be far more immune to.  Namely - jealousy and hatred.

 

Adrian is totally controlled by her emotions - Vivienne seems totally in control of her emotions.  HUGE difference.

[Cespar]

Unlike the other mages, Vivienne knows that she must keep her head on her shoulder. A trait a leader must have if they're going to inspire people around them. I would rather follow someone like Vivienne to war than someone who tries to please every single person around them.

[animedreamer]

Anyone remember that vid where they talk about magic being more than just a means of offense and defense, but rather being able to use it in the world to do things like fix bridges and stuff like that, are we still getting that in this game? i havent seen anything about it in a long while. I think they showed Viv doing it in one of demonstrations.

[raging_monkey]

Anyone remember that vid where they talk about magic being more than just a means of offense and defense, but rather being able to use it in the world to do things like fix bridges and stuff like that, are we still getting that in this game? i havent seen anything about it in a long while. I think they showed Viv doing it in one of demonstrations.

we should it was at e3(though it was a old build of the game)

[mikeymoonshine]

Anyone remember that vid where they talk about magic being more than just a means of offense and defense, but rather being able to use it in the world to do things like fix bridges and stuff like that, are we still getting that in this game? i havent seen anything about it in a long while. I think they showed Viv doing it in one of demonstrations.

 

Well Cassandra could still smash down walls and doors when the emerald graves videos came out. Solas could also do various magical things with veil fire and I assume other mages can too otherwise we would have to take Solas with us everywhere. 

[veeia]

Sorry I didn't see your question until now, Xil.

Viv appeals to me on a lot of levels. I think. Probably somewhat of a power fantasy, because she's this driven, intelligent, oozing presence, capable person who is able to use every weapon in her arsenal to get what she wants, but (so far), it's not in a sexualized way. That's rare for a female character and especially a black female character, sadly. I find characters like that cathartic in a weird way, because I have spent a lot of my life feeling like I had no control.

She's also interesting because she's a bit of a mystery. What does she want? Why does she want it? People have offered up simple answers, but I don't buy any of them so far. I like that in a character...to immediately get a feeling of complexity.

I also think a pro-Circle Mage is a fascinating and very relevant perspective. We had Bethany, but that wasn't executed that well and she was more of the "everyday" perspective. Viv represents not only the Circle friendly crowd, but the people who hold power in the circle and make decisions. That's new, and should very illuminating.

I also don't find that my perspective on game issues (like mages vs Templars) changes my enjoyment of a character, so ymmv. If they are written consistently and believably, then that's enough for me.

She's also gorgeous and voiced by Indira Varma. That doesn't hurt.

[Milan92]

Don't be so sure.

 

Spoiler

She collaborates with Fiona in throwing a ball.

 

Maybe she is just using her for her own ends.

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  Because she's playing The Game - she's amongst others also playing The Game.  While I'm sure particularly cruel Orlesians involve peasants in their games... I wager it is not at all required to involve anyone not actually dipping a toe into the water. Rhys wasn't playing a political game with Adrian, Adrian was manipulating and playing the mage order to serve her purposes.

 

Adrian betrayed her supposed best friend for disgusting - petty - reasons... which I think Vivienne would be far more immune to.  Namely - jealousy and hatred.

 

Adrian is totally controlled by her emotions - Vivienne seems totally in control of her emotions.  HUGE difference.

No she didn't. She did it for the cause.

 

 

Sorry I didn't see your question until now, Xil.

Viv appeals to me on a lot of levels. I think. Probably somewhat of a power fantasy, because she's this driven, intelligent, oozing presence, capable person who is able to use every weapon in her arsenal to get what she wants, but (so far), it's not in a sexualized way. That's rare for a female character and especially a black female character, sadly. I find characters like that cathartic in a weird way, because I have spent a lot of my life feeling like I had no control.

She's also interesting because she's a bit of a mystery. What does she want? Why does she want it? People have offered up simple answers, but I don't buy any of them so far. I like that in a character...to immediately get a feeling of complexity.

I also think a pro-Circle Mage is a fascinating and very relevant perspective. We had Bethany, but that wasn't executed that well and she was more of the "everyday" perspective. Viv represents not only the Circle friendly crowd, but the people who hold power in the circle and make decisions. That's new, and should very illuminating.

I also don't find that my perspective on game issues (like mages vs Templars) changes my enjoyment of a character, so ymmv. If they are written consistently and believably, then that's enough for me.

She's also gorgeous and voiced by Indira Varma. That doesn't hurt.

Hmmm. Well, I suppose we'll have to wait and find out...

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  "the cause" - that's almost worse.  So she betrayed her best friend and framed him for murder and started a war... for HER cause. Without regard to the Lucrosians, Isolationists, Loyalists (they're filthy traitors anyway right?), and Aequatarians that didn't want to be embroiled in the war.  Every mage child, apprentice, and non-violence loving mage in the towers... now locked in a life or death struggle for HER cause.

 

She is a fascist military leader who sparked a rebellion and "conveniently" was elected as a leader - but yeah, I suppose she's "just an altruistic freedom fighter".  

 

And no - she was clearly filled with spite and jealousy about not being picked over Evangeline.  

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  "the cause" - that's almost worse.  So she betrayed her best friend and framed him for murder and started a war... for HER cause. Without regard to the Lucrosians, Isolationists, Loyalists (they're filthy traitors anyway right?), and Aequatarians that didn't want to be embroiled in the war.  Every mage child, apprentice, and non-violence loving mage in the towers... now locked in a life or death struggle for HER cause.

 

She is a fascist military leader who sparked a rebellion and "conveniently" was elected as a leader - but yeah, I suppose she's "just an altruistic freedom fighter".  

 

And no - she was clearly filled with spite and jealousy about not being picked over Evangeline.  

The Aequitarians voted to join the war, and appointed a Libertarian as their leader beforehand.

Also, fascism is a very specific political system that has no hints of existence anywhere in Thedas. You might call Adrian authoritarian, but that's it. I also can't see why someone can't be both an authoritarian military leader and an altruistic freedom fighter; people are complicated, especially anyone who gets involved in a revolution. Being ruthless isn't incompatible with genuinely wanting the best for your people.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  Adrian is not "complicated" at all. 

And who set these two nobodies in their positions as leaders eh?  They're not even Senior Enchanters from what I can tell (I could be wrong here)... and yet two nobodies are boosted to the positions of leaders of the two largest factions over Senior and First Enchanters.  Adrian easily makes more sense - but the Rhys thing is so "out there".

 

Rhys was backed into a corner and didn't have the spine to say no.  I say that because he was backed into the war.  He did not want it.  

 

That these two were conveniently placed into leadership roles of the two largest factions (because you're mother was a good person... WHAT?) wreaks of manipulation - my guess is from Fiona and actually... Irving, who we know to be a scheming bastard.  So they could claim non-complicit behavior and save their skins should the rebellion go south - which won't work in my Inquisition playhthrough.  

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  Adrian is not "complicated" at all. 

And who set these two nobodies in their positions as leaders eh?  They're not even Senior Enchanters from what I can tell (I could be wrong here)... and yet two nobodies are boosted to the positions of leaders of the two largest factions over Senior and First Enchanters.  Adrian easily makes more sense - but the Rhys thing is so "out there".

 

Rhys was backed into a corner and didn't have the spine to say no.  I say that because he was backed into the war.  He did not want it.  

 

That these two were conveniently placed into leadership roles of the two largest factions (because you're mother was a good person... WHAT?) wreaks of manipulation - my guess is from Fiona and actually... Irving, who we know to be a scheming bastard.  So they could claim non-complicit behavior and save their skins should the rebellion go south - which won't work in my Inquisition playhthrough.  

Actually, both of them were senior enchanters, and among the highest in seniority in their fraternity. Some of the writing may make them seem young, but I think they're in their early forties (and Orsino wasn't much older than they when he assumed his position).

[Medhia_Nox]

I stand corrected there then - but why a former Libertarian is put into the position of leader of the Aequatarians just because "we liked your mom" when... "No you didn't you despised her because she played nice with the Chantry."  Still seems totally illogical - unless it was manipulated for advantage. 

[Xilizhra]

I stand corrected there then - but why a former Libertarian is put into the position of leader of the Aequatarians just because "we liked your mom" when... "No you didn't you despised her because she played nice with the Chantry."  Still seems totally illogical - unless it was manipulated for advantage. 

Well, it strikes me as uncalled-for to say that the Aequitarians didn't know whom they were getting; Rhys wasn't exactly an unknown figure. And given some lines in Origins about the Aequitarians moving away from the Loyalists and towards the Libertarians, I'd say it all comes together in a situation that makes sense.