5943 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

my not liking her being a side piece doesn't change the fact that she's magic bae. I just don't like this from a representation perspective. i've said on numerous occasions i'd watch this character's development closely. If you are not me, or someone like me, you would be hard pressed to understand why that is not okay from a representation standpoint.

it is kinda sketch

[jellobell]

they can marry it is just rare for them to do so.

You sure? Because I'm pretty sure Circle mages are prohibited from having families. Wynne talks about it a bit in origins.

 

Think about it, what would happen if you were allowed to raise a family inside the circle? Familial ties are very strong. What if your child grows up to be a mage but is thought too weak to pass their harrowing? Do you think a parent would sit around and let their child be made tranquil? Or what if your spouse is declared too dangerous and is scheduled to be made tranquil? Officially, circle mages aren't supposed to be involved in any romantic relationships at all. Most circles' templars probably turn a blind eye, but they still can't flaunt their relationships. And that means no marriage.

 

Also, there's some intimation that magic might be genetially passed on (Leandra talking about her Amell relatives). So there's another reason why the Chantry doesn't want mages to have sanctioned relationships.

[Hellion Rex]

You sure? Because I'm pretty sure Circle mages are prohibited from having families. Wynne talks about it a bit in origins.

 

Think about it, what would happen if you were allowed to raise a family inside the circle? Familial ties are very strong. What if your child grows up to be a mage but is thought too weak to pass their harrowing? Do you think a parent would sit around and let their child be made tranquil? Or what if your spouse is declared too dangerous and is scheduled to be made tranquil? Officially, circle mages aren't supposed to be involved in any romantic relationships at all. Most circles' templars probably turn a blind eye, but they still can't flaunt their relationships. And that means no marriage.

They can marry, just not have children, lest it be given to the Chantry. There are no restrictions on getting married at all.

[jellobell]

They can marry, just not have children, lest it be given to the Chantry. There are no restrictions on getting married at all.

Hmmm. Is there a codex entry that says one way or another? I just checked on the DA wiki which says,

 

"Romantic unions with mages are discouraged by the Chantry but that doesn't stop the mages of a Circle from carrying love affairs in secret. Should such an affair produce an offspring, any child born to a Circle mage belongs to the Chantry. Should that child be born a mage, as is in the case of Rhys, he or she would be sent to another Circle different than that of the mage's parents.[5] The Chantry goes to great lengths to prevent mages from having family bonds within the same Circle."

 

"In secret" seems to preclude marriage.

[mlgumm]

Yeah, about families in Circles... Spoilers for Asunder below:

 

Wynne was forced to give up Rhys and he was raised in an orphanage on the outside until he started to show magic. Then he was sent to a completely separate Circle so that he couldn't meet her. Mages can't get married or have children. It is the Templars who can petition to do so, but for whom it is rare.

[Hellion Rex]

Yeah, about families in Circles... Spoilers for Asunder below:

 

Spoiler

Wynne was forced to give up Rhys and he was raised in an orphanage on the outside until he started to show magic. Then he was sent to a completely separate Circle so that he couldn't meet her. Mages can't get married or have children. It is the Templars who can petition to do so, but for whom it is rare.

You can drop the tag. And I'm gonna need a quote, cause I don't believe marriage was mentioned once during Asunder.

[mlgumm]

I just figured some people might not have read the books yet. And marriage isn't specifically mentioned, but it is a family bond and those are discouraged like all hell. Full grown adults have to sneak away from Templar supervision to so much as kiss, so I doubt they'd be allowed the whole marriage and sharing quarters thing.

[BloodKaiden]

Ugh, the Chantry makes me sick.

[raging_monkey]

Ugh, the Chantry makes me sick.

agreed

[Hellion Rex]

I just figured some people might not have read the books yet. And marriage isn't specifically mentioned, but it is a family bond and those are discouraged like all hell. Full grown adults have to sneak away from Templar supervision to so much as kiss, so I doubt they'd be allowed the whole marriage and sharing quarters thing.

Depends on the Circle. But still, nowhere is it said that marriage is not allowed between mages, at all.

[Bleachrude]

I don't like how they literally have her laugh at the player when they ask about marriage. 

 

Love 

 

i personally think it's just a cliche situation for her to be in imo. She's an interesting character, I guess I was just expecting something more unique. It's not making me like her less however, since it's too early to say how it will play out.

 

Er, how would it be cliche?

 

Looking through Bioware's past games, even if you only look at the medieval fantasy ones, I don't think we've ever had a character that was simply the "mistress" as a companion....

[Potato Cat]

Spoiler

Yes. There's no rule against marrying a mage, but there is a massive stigma. Even now Bastien's wife is now dead, actually marrying Vivienne would be both social and political suicide for him.

I don't have a problem with Vivienne being Bastien's mistress either. Right now, my interpretation is that they do truly love each other while Bastien and his wife were only together as a solely political union, or otherwise she probably would have had a huge problem with Vivienne.

[Hellion Rex]

Spoiler

Yes. There's no rule against marrying a mage, but there is a massive stigma. Even now Bastien's wife is now dead, actually marrying Vivienne would be both social and political suicide for him.

I don't have a problem with Vivienne being Bastien's mistress either. Right now, my interpretation is that they do truly love each other while Bastien and his wife were only together as a solely political union, or otherwise she probably would have had a huge problem with Vivienne.

Are we dropping spoiler tags now?

Spoiler

 

I'm hoping Viv's love affair with him didn't start until at least his wife was dead.

[jellobell]

Depends on the Circle. But still, nowhere is it said that marriage is not allowed between mages, at all.

Spoiler

It's never outright stated, but it's very heavily implied. After all, if marriage was publicly known to be on the table, then why the need for such secrecy in relationships? The chantry is known to discourage any romantic/sexual relationships at all. It doesn't mention marriage because it doesn't really need to.

 

EDIT: And as Potato Cat said, the stigma is as much of a deterrent as an outright rule if we're talking about Mage/nonmage relationships.

 

And going back to the original point, it makes Vivienne's laughter make a lot more sense. Asking a mage if she's married to a Duke is ridiculous because of both of their statuses.

[Potato Cat]

Are we dropping spoiler tags now?

Spoiler

 
I'm hoping Viv's love affair with him didn't start until at least his wife was dead.

Spoiler

I think it's at least heavily implied it's been going on for a long time now. Well before her death. Again, the separation between love and marriage among nobles needs to be stressed.

[Xilizhra]

my not liking her being a side piece doesn't change the fact that she's magic bae. I just don't like this from a representation perspective. i've said on numerous occasions i'd watch this character's development closely. If you are not me, or someone like me, you would be hard pressed to understand why that is not okay from a representation standpoint.

Ahh...well, if we're talking about ethnic representation issues, I'd be more annoyed by her character arc revolving around denigrating members of an oppressed minority who want to stop being oppressed and saying that they never had it all that bad to begin with. But that's just me.

[Ryzaki]

Spoiler

It's never outright stated, but it's very heavily implied. After all, if marriage was publicly known to be on the table, then why the need for such secrecy in relationships? The chantry is known to discourage any romantic/sexual relationships at all. It doesn't mention marriage because it doesn't really need to.

 

EDIT: And as Potato Cat said, the stigma is as much of a deterrent as an outright rule if we're talking about Mage/nonmage relationships.

 

And going back to the original point, it makes Vivienne's laughter make a lot more sense. Asking a mage if she's married to a Duke is ridiculous because of both of their statuses.

 

Spoiler

Eh can't you mention marriage in DAO to Teagan as a female mage? PC mage makes it obvious it's more of an issue of someone being willing to marry a mage than anything.

[Solid_Altair]

Sorry. I didn't go through all the posts. Which will be her specialty tree?

[Master Shiori]

Sorry. I didn't go through all the posts. Which will be her specialty tree?

She's a Knight Enchanter.

[Solid_Altair]

Thanks.

[Arachlia]

Spoiler

Eh can't you mention marriage in DAO to Teagan as a female mage? PC mage makes it obvious it's more of an issue of someone being willing to marry a mage than anything.

Spoiler

That's the understanding I got from that particular dialogue, especially since Teagan himself somewhat alludes that he wouldn't mind having mage wife. And I remember reading once (in discussion about templars & mages) that marriage isn't really that popular choice with mages anyway, probably due to stigma and serious restrictions.

[TheTurtle]

Anyone else using VPN to play early? I don't get home until 5:00pm, but I'm hoping to get far enough into the game so I can meet Viv.

[mikeymoonshine]

I love Vivienne, my Inquisitor will most likely hate her but I love her. 

[TheTurtle]

I punk'd out on doing the flirt option during my first sit down with the game; maybe I'll work up the courage before I get home.

[Former_Fiend]

Alright, so, a year ago when we first started to get a look at Vivienne, I made no bones about the fact that I didn't like her. Didn't like her attitude, her personality. For the whole time up until release I predicted that she'd be my least favorite companion and that I was sure I would dislike her.

 

I also said that I was open to the possibility of being proven wrong, and that were that to happen, I'd admit it.

 

Well, here we are.

 

Now, I'm not about to put Vivienne on my favorites list, but my opinion of her so far in game - and I've just recruited her and talked to her once, though thoroughly - is generally positive. She's level headed, reasonable. Her reasons for opposing the mage rebellion are compelling and she provides us with some less sensational facts about what it's like to be a mage in Thedas. These are all things that I appreciate.

 

So, putting it plainly, I was wrong.