5943 réponses à ce sujet

[Akkos]

When she meets The Duke, this is another event in the Game and I believe that she went to the event with the intent of elevating her status (just a hypothesis). When she sees The Duke, Vivienne said that it was love at first sight and I believe her. I believe she was in love with the idea the power could bring and not the man himself. When Vivienne and The Duke are in a relationship, I think it was a bad relationship at the start. But as time went on, I feel Vivienne's feelings changed. I don't think it was love per se but a protectiveness over The Duke. Vivienne was protecting her reputation in the Game.

 

Spoiler

In regards to Vivienne's personal quest, I gave her the real heart so I can only comment on this perspective. I have a high approval with Vivienne so I see no reason for her to lie about her circumstances. I didn't pry into too much detail and I went to get the heart. When I went back to Vivienne, she asked to go with her to The Duke and he died. Vivienne's reaction is sadness and this may be due to The Duke's death. However, I suspect it reflects more on herself because The Duke part of her life is over. Vivienne didn't mention any other motive and I don't see why she would lie to a Highly Approved Inquisitor. When The Duke's relatives arrive, Vivienne gives the inquisitor a ring which shows a warmer side to her. I didn't get any negative impressions from her during this whole quest.

 

Spoiler

When speaking to Vivienne about becoming Divine, I don't feel that she is trying to manipulate you in choosing her. In fact, my inquisitor suggested her before she even put her hat in the ring. Even at this point, I don't think Vivienne has a secret ambition of becoming Divine. Vivienne accepts the inquisitor's recommendation because there is no suitable alternative. The only secret ambition of Vivienne is that she joined the inquisition to restore what was lost.

 

This is a lot of speculation on my part and Vivienne's enjoyment of the Game makes anything possible. But at the moment I feel happy with Vivienne as a trusting companion. I also have a lot of personal bias to her as a character

 

I thought I heard Vivienne said she was first an acquaintance of his wife, as they were hosting salons together.. until she died 5 years ago...

[MrGDL87]

^^ Really? , I was sure she mentioned "love at first sight". I might be wrong though.

 

Edited: Pride Restored 

Modifié par MrGDL87, 11 décembre 2014 - 01:58 .

[VelvetStraitjacket]

So, I never got the scene with the Duke's relatives in the sabotaged potion version, which makes me think that whatever plan she had did not work even though he still died, as in the version when you give her the real heart. Or I'm looking too much into this.

But yeah, the scene after the Duke dies remains very interesting to me. Now I only wonder what that plan was.

[daveliam]

^^ Really? , I was sure she mentioned "love at first sight". I might be wrong though.

You have cast doubt on my interpretation and thus I am shamed.

She definitely says it was love at first sight. She tells a story of their eyes locking from across the room at an event that she and other apprentice mages were attending. You are right. She fell in love at first sight with him and he with her. Her story of the salons were once she was already his mistress. It was to suggest that she and his wife not only tolerated each other but that his wife accepted her and was friendly with her.

[Reznore57]

When the subject of the Divine came up, the only person mentioned was Cassandra. Viv was insistent that Cass was a good choice, and even disapproved when I suggested Leliana.

Ironically, when I finished the storyline, the new Divine ended up being... Viv. Well played, Madame De Fer, well played.

 

Really we got a different scene , because I had a Vivienne who went on to describe the perfect Divine who strangely looked exactly like her.

When we started talking about Cass , she said Cass would be good , but she was terrible at playing the Game and would be a terrible diplomat and Cass just didn't look the part.

Basically she was saying she would be better than her.

[MrGDL87]

I have just finished the game and I am extremely happy!!!  because:

 

Spoiler

I made Vivienne Divine. I was a little sad thinking that I won't get Vivienne in any future DLC (as she would be preparing for divine and be a locked off party member).

 

But: After the credits and being back at Skyhold, I went to the balcony and I was surprised Vivienne was still there. Then, I initiated a conversation about her thoughts about her new position. After this, I talked with her again and the inquisitor asks Vivienne to rejoin the party. She said something like "for you anything, darling" . So I went to the war room to set out for a destination and Vivienne is selectable and the tarot card is the divine one.

 

I don't know if she says this to everyone or it's approval based but I am relieved.

[Precursor Meta]

Vivienne is a b*tch but she knows her stuff and has a decent idea of what's good for Thedss IMO.

I got to admit that everytime I spoke to her, it felt like we were plotting her rise to power. To bad we can't romance her...

[ttestagr]

So, I never got the scene with the Duke's relatives in the sabotaged potion version, which makes me think that whatever plan she had did not work even though he still died, as in the version when you give her the real heart. Or I'm looking too much into this.

But yeah, the scene after the Duke dies remains very interesting to me. Now I only wonder what that plan was.

 

It likely had to do with the Duke's will.  She's very specific that she only gets access to them and their connections if he dies.  Does anyone know if Vivienne can become Divine if you sabotage her?

[BubbleDncr]

I gotta say - my first playthrough, Viviene hated me. So I didn't bring her anywhere. I wasn't interested in her at all.

 

My second playthrough, Viv is totally my Inquizzie's best friend! And she's awesome!

[Former_Fiend]

So, despite my general dislike for Vivienne my inquisitor was nothing but respectful toward her in my first playthrough.

 

In my next complete playthrough, I was playing a dalish mage and decided to go a different way, opposing Vivienne's views on pretty much everything. 

 

So while I did her quest and got her the right heart, later when she brought Bastien's relatives to Skyhold, I decided to take a more hardline stance with her, accusing her of using me for her own gain, which she gleefully admitted to, noting that Bastien's death had given her access to the Grand Clerics and the Council of Heralds, and that the part I played gave her he influence to act on that access.

 

Now, you don't get the option of accusing her, but the implication to me is that she out and out poisoned Bastien to achieve all this. There wasn't any sorrow or regret or remorse in her voice, just, "Whelp, he's dead, but look at my shiny new friends!"

[TheLittleBird]

Over two days?! *shakes head* Tututut. Madame de Fer would be very displeased.

 

Hey everyone. I just popped in here to come and say that I very much like Vivienne. She's a flawed character, definitely. In a way, Vivienne is much like Sera. Both hide behind their words, quite possibly out of fear that the world might change too much for them if they don't. 

Related to that seems to be Vivienne's (completely understandable) fear of demons. One might conclude that Vivienne rose to power not only to be in power, but also avoid the life of the Circle. Where one is among books, Templar swords and the whispers of those inhabiting the Fade, invading one's mind every single night. Vivienne prefers to be faced with the danger of people, characters and personalities that can be influenced and crushed with words. She loves playing the Game, and yes, seems to be very good at it. But doesn't it speak in favour of her then that she decides to give all of that up to some degree and join the Inquisition? She moves to Skyhold, where the winters are long and harsh, where the food is of inferior quality to what she was used to in Val Royeaux, and where fashion is a word mostly unknown (as proven by what the Inquisitor wears when running around the castle). 

 

She makes it very clear that she joins the Inquisition largely for personal gain, sure. But to come out of her comfort zone to do so, that is something I respect and yes, even admire about her. She's willing to fight demons to be a part of this adventure, and does a damn fine job at it.

[Aggie Punbot]

I have a question for Vivienne fans, if you may indulge me. I will put it under a spoiler tag just to be safe.

 

Spoiler

So I made the mistake of taking Vivienne with me to Redcliife when I declared my support for the mages. She now seriously hates my PC's guts, to the point where I got a cutscene where Vivienne was deliberately trying to antagonize her just to see what she would put up with. My question is: does this mean I am now locked out of being able to help her with her personal quest(s) later? I would at least like her to be neutral towards my Inquisitor and not hate her quite so much as she does now.

[Hellion Rex]

I have a question for Vivienne fans, if you may indulge me. I will put it under a spoiler tag just to be safe.

Spoiler

So I made the mistake of taking Vivienne with me to Redcliife when I declared my support for the mages. She now seriously hates my PC's guts, to the point where I got a cutscene where Vivienne was deliberately trying to antagonize her just to see what she would put up with. My question is: does this mean I am now locked out of being able to help her with her personal quest(s) later? I would at least like her to be neutral towards my Inquisitor and not hate her quite so much as she does now.

Talk to Viv, do her little fetch quest and bring her with you when you do it. That ought to racket up major approval.

[Aggie Punbot]

Talk to Viv, do her little fetch quest and bring her with you when you do it. That ought to racket up major approval.

Thank you kindly, fellow poster. I am in your debt.

[MrGDL87]

I genuinely don't understand some of the posts about Vivienne plotting/poisoning The Duke. It's as though I am playing in a parallel universe. I didn't get any nefarious undertones when completing her quest. I don't see the benefit of Vivienne lying to a high approved inquisitor. The only explanation I can think of is that sabotaging the cure takes you down a different route altogether.

 

Maybe I am just naïve  as far as I am concerned it was a fetch quest which I delivered. It's up to Vivienne how much information to disclose about a private matter. I still treat Vivienne as a trusting companion.

[TheLittleBird]

I genuinely don't understand some of the posts about Vivienne plotting/poisoning The Duke. It's as though I am playing in a parallel universe. I didn't get any nefarious undertones when completing her quest. I don't see the benefit of Vivienne lying to a high approved inquisitor. The only explanation I can think of is that sabotaging the cure takes you down a different route altogether.

 

Maybe I am just naïve  as far as I am concerned it was a fetch quest which I delivered. It's up to Vivienne how much information to disclose about a private matter. I still treat Vivienne as a trusting companion.

 

Well, when I first thought of the possibility of Vivienne actually wanting to poison the Duke it was never that I considered her murdering him per se. It was more in the sense of: okay, his disease was said to be incurable. When he died, he seemed to be at peace with it. It could be that they both agreed it was best to end his suffering, and then Vivienne tried to use the circumstances to gain more power for the Inquisition.

 

So in that sense, I guess you could say I perceived it as being a form of euthanasia.

However, as it's since been pointed out to me that giving her the fake wyvern heart actually has the Duke die without saying a word, and the fact that the book in Vivienne's room does talk of the healing effects of a Snowy Wyvern's heart, the poisoning-theory just becomes too hard to defend so I've dropped that. 

[Thiefy]

Well, when I first thought of the possibility of Vivienne actually wanting to poison the Duke it was never that I considered her murdering him per se. It was more in the sense of: okay, his disease was said to be incurable. When he died, he seemed to be at peace with it. It could be that they both agreed it was best to end his suffering, and then Vivienne tried to use the circumstances to gain more power for the Inquisition.

 

So in that sense, I guess you could say I perceived it as being a form of euthanasia.

However, as it's since been pointed out to me that giving her the fake wyvern heart actually has the Duke die without saying a word, and the fact that the book in Vivienne's room does talk of the healing effects of a Snowy Wyvern's heart, the poisoning-theory just becomes too hard to defend so I've dropped that. 

(around 6:08)

 

This actually explains what is going on. If she just wanted to poison him she could have used simpler means instead of having a squad mate look for a particularly rare, traceable item. She also wouldn't have wanted any witnesses.

 

I also think that had the cure work, her lover waking up see the quizzie there would also be part of Vivi's machinations in 'the game'. Since it didn't, plan b.

[TheLittleBird]

(around 6:08)

 

This actually explains what is going on. If she just wanted to poison him she could have used simpler means instead of having a squad mate look for a particularly rare, traceable item. She also wouldn't have wanted any witnesses.

 

I also think that had the cure work, her lover waking up see the quizzie there would also be part of Vivi's machinations in 'the game'. Since it didn't, plan b.

 

Then again, I originally theorized that the whole point of her involving the Inquisitor is so she could use him/her to strengthen ties between the Duke's immediate family and the Inquisition (of course, Madame de Fer herself as well), considering their importance in the overall machinations of power in Orlais. 

 

Although I did rewatch all the scenes after the thought of her poisoning the Duke occurred to me, and, combined with what has been pointed out to me since then, it didn't exactly convince me of the theory furthermore. Quite the contrary. It's a nice little theory, and an interesting thought, but all in all, I've decided to drop it. Though as one who came upon the thought by himself, I just thought I'd share how exactly that occurred and why one could think in such a way.

 

But yes, I do believe it's far simpler than that and that the last scene of the quest (in which she brings the Duke's family to Skyhold) is simply showing Vivienne and two of her lover's closest family collectively grieve, while also utilizing the moment to strengthen their ties in a way that can only be part of the Grand Game. They're Orlesian, after all.

[ButterRum]

So I gave Vivienne the heart of a snowy wyvern ( loved the Snow White reference). Then after the Temple of Mythal mission, I talked to her at Skyhold, and she told me she gained favor from nobles after the Duke's death.

I'm confused. Did she kill the Duke on purpose? I thought she was trying to save him. There was a dialogue option that said "...so you used me?!" I didn't click it though because I like Vivienne.

Should I do her other personal quest? I'm trying to make her Divine.

Also, I had to Google if Vivienne is based of Emma Frost, and saw this thread: http://forum.bioware...-already/page-2

So I'm not the only one who is reminded of Emma Frost!!! Vivienne reminds me a lot of her. She is cold and calculating but has a big heart she doesn't let on the outside. Her dialogue is very Emma-y too. She's witty and sarcastic.

As for politics, Vivienne has a more conservative view of mages compared to, say, Morrigan or Solas. In the X-Men, Emma uses enjoys using her powers freely, so she isn't conservative like Vivienne in that sense. But they're both very idealistic and ethical in their own ways.

They both love fashion and love insulting people, too.... I get a total Emma vibe off Vivienne.

[Chernaya]

Hey y'all. So I never got the final cutscene for Vivienne in my first playthrough.

 

Spoiler

The one where the Duke's family visits Skyhold after his death.

 

At first I thought I probably just forgot to talk to her after the personal quest, but in my new playthrough I've just finished it, got the scene where we talk about it, but after leaving Skyhold and coming back I'm just getting her normal dialogue again when I go to speak with her. Is there something specific that is supposed to trigger it? 

[MrGDL87]

Argh, I went out of my way to make Vivienne divine by doing all her quests and maintaining a pro-Circle stance, yet my game concluded with Cassandra, the safe (and therefore boring) candidate, being put on the throne.

 

Help?

 

It also depends on some of the main quest outcomes. I can only tell you about what I did (resulting as Vivienne as Divine) as I have only just done the one playthrough so far.

 

Spoiler

Siding with the Templars and then allying with them, Exiled wardens, Celene rules alone. I also supported Vivienne as the Divine on the War Table. Also supporting the Chantry might work.

 

I'm not sure about other paths. Anyway, I hope this helps
 

[MrGDL87]

If you made a book of the best quotes in the Dragon Age franchise, then Vivienne would probably fill most of the book.

 

I've just started my second playthrough and I'm doing everything opposite to the first.

 

Spoiler

When you first meet Vivienne and I chose for her to kill the marquis and as we walk away she says something like (paraphrased) "this will need to be cleaned up so people can dance on the ballroom". Later, I said to her you have just killed the marquis and she replied (again paraphrased) "we can't have duels in the drawing room"

 

I wish I could remember the exact wording. It's funny how nonchalant she is about what just happened and is more concerned about her reputation than killing a noble in front of everyone