5943 réponses à ce sujet

[Zobert]

This is my fourth playthrough and I wish I had used Vivienne more before.  She's awesome.

[Xilizhra]

One interesting fact I noticed about Vivienne: she might actually be atheist. If asked about the Chantry, she doesn't say anything at all about her personal beliefs, she just values the Chantry as an agency that can keep order. It doesn't mean that she doesn't believe in the Maker, but I do find it curious that she never talks about faith at all--indeed, she's the only companion for whom faith is never brought up, to my knowledge.

[daveliam]

One interesting fact I noticed about Vivienne: she might actually be atheist. If asked about the Chantry, she doesn't say anything at all about her personal beliefs, she just values the Chantry as an agency that can keep order. It doesn't mean that she doesn't believe in the Maker, but I do find it curious that she never talks about faith at all--indeed, she's the only companion for whom faith is never brought up, to my knowledge.

 

I agree that her sense of faith is either not very strong or very private.  She does reference the Maker in some of her banter, but it's usually in a phrase (like, "put the fear of the Maker into her" or "Maker, help me"), so that's not very conclusive. 

[Xilizhra]

Also, being human turned out to be too boring to sustain, so I'm going to stick with a qunari for my friends-with-everyone playthrough. I hope the slight approval for saying that the templars made their beds will be enough...

[daveliam]

Also, being human turned out to be too boring to sustain, so I'm going to stick with a qunari for my friends-with-everyone playthrough. I hope the slight approval for saying that the templars made their beds will be enough...

 

I knew we would find something that we could agree on!  

[Joe25]

I love patch five! I can't quit playing with the colors of Vivienne's outfits.

[Xilizhra]

I knew we would find something that we could agree on!  

I wanted more plot hooks for being a Circle mage, but it just wasn't working out.

 

In her experience as a Tal-Vashoth mage, while there are monitors to watch out for demonic outbreaks, one still has freedom of movement and is not under actual control from nonmages. I think that we could come to an agreement on some general principles, if not the specifics of their execution; is it so bad to support organized mage freedom?

[Sarielle]

One interesting fact I noticed about Vivienne: she might actually be atheist. If asked about the Chantry, she doesn't say anything at all about her personal beliefs, she just values the Chantry as an agency that can keep order. It doesn't mean that she doesn't believe in the Maker, but I do find it curious that she never talks about faith at all--indeed, she's the only companion for whom faith is never brought up, to my knowledge.

 

Hmm. Blackwall? Though he does say something about "paying them back for what they did to the Divine," so I guess we can infer.
But I agree, she's definitely not openly religious if she is religious at all, and it's not something I'd really thought about. I peg her as not being especially religious, but she plays a lot of her cards close to the chest so I could be dead wrong.

 

I wanted more plot hooks for being a Circle mage, but it just wasn't working out.

 

In her experience as a Tal-Vashoth mage, while there are monitors to watch out for demonic outbreaks, one still has freedom of movement and is not under actual control from nonmages. I think that we could come to an agreement on some general principles, if not the specifics of their execution; is it so bad to support organized mage freedom?

 

Bad in what way? Bad for trying to befriend Vivienne or bad morally?

[Xilizhra]

Bad in what way? Bad for trying to befriend Vivienne or bad morally?

The former.

[Sarielle]

The former.

 

I guess it depends on what conversations you're talking about specifically.

 

During her "magic is dangerous" bit you can pick, for instance, the:

 

Spoiler

"I agree, but Templars aren't the answer" option and she approves.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 What's funny is that Vivienne's character is very similar to one Hawke I played as in DA2. Gaylord, mage and funnyman. His wit was not simply limited to humor, though. He was as frivolous and jovial as he was cunning and opportunistic.

 

Hawke did several things that made me proud. Petrice? Sided with her, then backed out in the Chantry, where she openly confesses to having arranged for the death of the Viscount's son (in the presence of Aveline, no less). Merrill's eluvian? Opposed it, eventually killed her, but did not initiate the conversation where she destroys the mirror ... leaving it for Hawke to claim for himself! Templars/mages? Won the Templars' loyalty and rose to Viscount as a mage! 

 

In that world-state, I like to think that Hawke's rise to power had a hand in Vivienne becoming the Divine.

[Elfyoth]

Finally! Found it! I searched for that one a long time, where have it been? The thread I mean O.o 

[Potato Cat]

I agree that her sense of faith is either not very strong or very private.  She does reference the Maker in some of her banter, but it's usually in a phrase (like, "put the fear of the Maker into her" or "Maker, help me"), so that's not very conclusive.

If you listen around Haven, there's a Chantry sister, (iirc), that comments on the fact that she thinks Vivienne just pays lip service.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 I can relate to that attitude, myself. I am of a certain religious belief, and believe there to be truth in its teachings, it just does not play a big part in my everyday life.

[Boost32]

Vivienne original name was Odette. I like Vivienne more.

[BloodKaiden]

I love patch five! I can't quit playing with the colors of Vivienne's outfits.

How does the Tinter system work Joe, is it a table or just a item? Vivi is the character I look the most forward to when it comes to this new system! Patiently awaiting Patch 5....

[Akkos]

Vivienne original name was Odette. I like Vivienne more.

 

Odette = sounds like a slang in spanish.

 

Curious fact when pronounced "Jode-te" o "que te jodan" in spanish. It actually means  "Go f**k yourself".   Check Indira Varma video.

[Joe25]

How does the Tinter system work Joe, is it a table or just a item? Vivi is the character I look the most forward to when it comes to this new system! Patiently awaiting Patch 5....

If you play on PC you have to download the patch. I you play on console and have it hooked to the net. the patch should have updated when you put the disk in. The tint system can be found in the undercroft (first table on the right). After you make your armor, you can take it to that table, and pay 1 of the material to change the color. If I remember, you should have 2 cloth slots, 2 leather slots and 1 metal slot. I have to say that for characters like Blackwall and Sara that didn't have a cloth colors for there top armors it is great. As for Vivienne, You can give her classic white royal silk armor from the posters, and have the top stats and affects. It is not all of the patch just the latest update that came out last week.  

[BloodKaiden]

If you play on PC you have to download the patch. I you play on console and have it hooked to the net. the patch should have updated when you put the disk in. The tint system can be found in the undercroft (first table on the right). After you make your armor, you can take it to that table, and pay 1 of the material to change the color. If I remember, you should have 2 cloth slots, 2 leather slots and 1 metal slot. I have to say that for characters like Blackwall and Sara that didn't have a cloth colors for there top armors it is great. As for Vivienne, You can give her classic white royal silk armor from the posters, and have the top stats and affects. It is not all of the patch just the latest update that came out last week.

I see! Thanks for the insight, I play on ps4 so I'll check it out when I get off work.

[Xilizhra]

I think I've figured Vivienne out. What I think fundamentally drives her isn't a dedication to the Circle or to the Chantry or anything like that; rather, it's her burning desire for respect and adulation, and moreover, more respect and adulation than other people. She wants to be special; she wants to be the very best, like no one ever was.

 

Vivienne's greatest fear is irrelevance, and I think it manifests in scorn for any mage who didn't take her personal path to power, and especially for any who can't just be killed out of hand. She wants to believe that the mage rebellion is just a bunch of worthless and stupid malcontents who are dooming themselves, because she feels that the alternative--that they could A. be right, and B. not be in any more danger from magic than her--invalidates her own efforts to stay on the straight and narrow and makes her have less worth by comparison. She also hates apostates, especially without formal education, who seem like they might be a threat to her power; Solas is a target for plenty of barbs on this, but she despises Morrigan, the living proof that she could be replaced and that her knowledge and power weren't unique in Celene's eyes. She wants to be the most respected mage in Thedas, sees herself as the best follower of her path, and doesn't like the thought of people taking other paths to reach a similar spot at all.

[Boost32]

I think I've figured Vivienne out. What I think fundamentally drives her isn't a dedication to the Circle or to the Chantry or anything like that; rather, it's her burning desire for respect and adulation, and moreover, more respect and adulation than other people. She wants to be special; she wants to be the very best, like no one ever was.
 
Vivienne's greatest fear is irrelevance, and I think it manifests in scorn for any mage who didn't take her personal path to power, and especially for any who can't just be killed out of hand. She wants to believe that the mage rebellion is just a bunch of worthless and stupid malcontents who are dooming themselves, because she feels that the alternative--that they could A. be right, and B. not be in any more danger from magic than her--invalidates her own efforts to stay on the straight and narrow and makes her have less worth by comparison. She also hates apostates, especially without formal education, who seem like they might be a threat to her power; Solas is a target for plenty of barbs on this, but she despises Morrigan, the living proof that she could be replaced and that her knowledge and power weren't unique in Celene's eyes. She wants to be the most respected mage in Thedas, sees herself as the best follower of her path, and doesn't like the thought of people taking other paths to reach a similar spot at all.

Or maybe she really believes in the things she said. Just because she has a pro-Circle view, doesnt mean she is lying to herself.

[Xilizhra]

Or maybe she really believes in the things she said. Just because she has a pro-Circle view, doesnt mean she is lying to herself.

I'm not claiming that she's lying to herself, but I do know she has no problem lying to anyone else.

[Sarielle]

Vivienne's greatest fear is irrelevance, and I think it manifests in scorn for any mage who didn't take her personal path to power, and especially for any who can't just be killed out of hand. She wants to believe that the mage rebellion is just a bunch of worthless and stupid malcontents who are dooming themselves, because she feels that the alternative--that they could A. be right, and B. not be in any more danger from magic than her--invalidates her own efforts to stay on the straight and narrow and makes her have less worth by comparison. She also hates apostates, especially without formal education, who seem like they might be a threat to her power; Solas is a target for plenty of barbs on this, but she despises Morrigan, the living proof that she could be replaced and that her knowledge and power weren't unique in Celene's eyes. She wants to be the most respected mage in Thedas, sees herself as the best follower of her path, and doesn't like the thought of people taking other paths to reach a similar spot at all.

 

What does she say to Morrigan? I don't recall.

 

It's pretty ridiculous to say that she wants to kill apostates out of hand. She's not even particularly hateful the first time she mentions Solas, and trading barbs (Solas gives as good as he gets) is hardly the same thing as wanting to kill someone outright. Cmon now, you're making stuff up because you don't like her again I wouldn't even say she hates apostates; I'd say she resents them, because ones who do OK on their own can be held up as examples of "Well so-and-so wasn't in a Circle, and he/she turned out OK."

 

All that doesn't diminish her skill as a mage or her "worth." It is a challenge to her power on some level, I agree, which is why I think she resents them.

 

Vivienne absolutely wants power. But I think you're really reaching when you try to paint her as a liar as far as her beliefs on the Circle go.

[Xilizhra]

What does she say to Morrigan? I don't recall.

 

It's pretty ridiculous to say that she wants to kill apostates out of hand. She's not even particularly hateful the first time she mentions Solas, and trading barbs (Solas gives as good as he gets) is hardly the same thing as wanting to kill someone outright. Cmon now, you're making stuff up because you don't like her again I wouldn't even say she hates apostates; I'd say she resents them, because ones who do OK on their own can be held up as examples of "Well so-and-so wasn't in a Circle, and he/she turned out OK."

 

All that doesn't diminish her skill as a mage or her "worth." It is a challenge to her power on some level, I agree, which is why I think she resents them.

 

Vivienne absolutely wants power. But I think you're really reaching when you try to paint her as a liar as far as her beliefs on the Circle go.

I was referring to the apostates that she can mow down, like the ones in the Hinterlands; those don't pose a threat to her. I'm not saying Vivienne wants to kill Solas, but I don't think she'd regret his death (I'm sure, however, that she would like to kill Morrigan; Cole talks about Vivienne's internal litany of ire against Morrigan in one party banter). I suppose you're right about the resentment part, however.

 

I don't think she's lying about her beliefs on the Circle, precisely. But I think those beliefs come from a more self-serving origin than she might let on.

[Sarielle]

I was referring to the apostates that she can mow down, like the ones in the Hinterlands; those don't pose a threat to her. I'm not saying Vivienne wants to kill Solas, but I don't think she'd regret his death (I'm sure, however, that she would like to kill Morrigan; Cole talks about Vivienne's internal litany of ire against Morrigan in one party banter). I suppose you're right about the resentment part, however.

 

I don't think she's lying about her beliefs on the Circle, precisely. But I think those beliefs come from a more self-serving origin than she might let on.

 

Huh. I'll have to pair Cole and Vivi more after we meet Morrigan. I'm curious now.

 

I don't disagree that Vivienne is self-serving. I definitely think she wants to be at the top of the food chain. I just also think that she really believes a reformed Circle is the best compromise -- again, with her at the head of it.