5943 réponses à ce sujet

[TheTurtle]

I do think that she might be older than she appears, but blood magic didn't even cross my mind. I just don't think she would risk it as it is the fastest way to lose everything she worked for.

[Boost32]

I do think that she might be older than she appears, but blood magic didn't even cross my mind. I just don't think she would risk it as it is the fastest way to lose everything she worked for.

She would never use blood magic, she see it as a weakness, even Cole says she dont use it.

[TheTurtle]

She would never use blood magic, she see it as a weakness, even Cole says she dont use it.

I knew Cole said something about it, but I'm currently not in a position to watch any banter videos

[Sarielle]

Leliana has to be almost forty. I think she's older than Vivienne, and nearly as old as Cassandra. In any case, Leliana doesn't jeopardize the safety of the whole.

 

Not all idealists are young, but many are. People who see anything other than "free ALL TEH MAGEZ" as an unthinkable option are either likely very young or very idealistic, and the two often go hand-in-hand. And it seems you're suggesting that a lack of Circles won't endanger a good many people -- mages themselves included -- in which case ... we'll have to just agree to disagree, and I'll point right back to that youth or idealism thing.

 

I actually got a comment from Solas on the Hinterlands mages the other day that made me think Vivienne would have approved (she wasn't in my party at the time, unfortunately). 

 

Solas: Such an irresponsible use of magic. The mages here are little more than animals.

[Xilizhra]

Not all idealists are young, but many are. People who see anything other than "free ALL TEH MAGEZ" as an unthinkable option are either likely very young or very idealistic, and the two often go hand-in-hand. And it seems you're suggesting that a lack of Circles won't endanger a good many people -- mages themselves included -- in which case ... we'll have to just agree to disagree, and I'll point right back to that youth or idealism thing.

Well, they won't. In the case of abominations, simple self-interest will do the job; after all, no mage either wants to become an abomination or live with them, so there's ample motive for self-policing. The College of Enchanters is structured enough to work.

Also, it's not about freeing the mages; they were already freed. It's about whether to move forward or to lock them back up again.

[Sarielle]

You know, I think it's the pro-mage blinders (I can even see arguing that you think it's the morally correct choice, but not the "there's no way this can go wrong and nobody will get hurt" choice) are the reason for 

 

a) Vivienne as a companion

b ) the perceived retconning (and I don't necessarily disagree) of things like Dalish kicking out extra mages, or Circles being way more permissive than we originally saw

 

Bioware obviously intended this to be a grey issue, but the fanbase seems to have gone so overwhelmingly pro-mage (at least vocally) that I think the devs are actively trying to force people to reconsider the stance as being the clearly obvious choice.

 

I dunno that it's working.

 

Anyway, how do you view Solas' comment?

[Xilizhra]

You know, I think it's the pro-mage blinders (I can even see arguing that you think it's the morally correct choice, but not the "there's no way this can go wrong and nobody will get hurt" choice) are the reason for 

 

a) Vivienne as a companion

b ) the perceived retconning (and I don't necessarily disagree) of things like Dalish kicking out extra mages, or Circles being way more permissive than we originally saw

 

Bioware obviously intended this to be a grey issue, but the fanbase seems to have gone so overwhelmingly pro-mage (at least vocally) that I think the devs are actively trying to force people to reconsider the stance as being the clearly obvious choice.

 

I dunno that it's working.

 

Anyway, how do you view Solas' comment?

Oh, it could go wrong, certainly. But it doesn't have more wrongness potential than the Circle, and I would argue that it has quite a bit less. As for Vivienne, she's just Fenris with a staff. Nothing much new there in terms of party attitudes. In any case, they gave us Leliana as Divine, so I'm quite content.

 

As for Solas' comment, it's obvious that the Hinterlands apostates are jerks. I'm not sure what more there is to say.

[Sarielle]

As for Vivienne, she's just Fenris with a staff. 

 

As for Solas' comment, it's obvious that the Hinterlands apostates are jerks. I'm not sure what more there is to say.

 

Vivienne is far from Fenris with a staff. For one big difference, Fenris can be dismissed as not being a mage. Another is that he is bitter toward/afraid of mages, and irrationally projects mistreatment from some to apply to all. Vivienne is both a mage herself, and while I wouldn't say fear plays no part in her stance, she tackles the issue from a position of practicality and logic.

 

If you think they're remotely the same, you're missing a ton of nuances. And painting everyone who argues against something other than the total removal or Circles as "the same" is one of the reasons it's difficult to take any debate with you seriously. =/

 

And yes, the Hinterlands apostates are jerks. But they're mages too, which is why I wondered how you could argue your average joe wouldn't be endangered by suddenly removing all the Circles.

 

EDIT: left out a word

[Xilizhra]

Vivienne is far from Fenris with a staff. For one big difference, Fenris can be dismissed as not being a mage. Another is that he is bitter toward/afraid of mages, and irrationally projects mistreatment from some to apply to all. Vivienne is both a mage herself, and while I wouldn't say fear plays no part in her stance, she tackles the issue from a position of practicality and logic.

What does being a mage or not being a mage have to do with it? If being a mage inherently makes you more knowledgeable of the dangers of magic, you should trust Tarohne over Thrask. And if Fenris is irrationally projecting things, we can dismiss Vivienne in the same way by virtue of her being an enormously egotistical ******. But I wasn't planning on dismissing everything Fenris said either, even though I heartily disagree with his politics.

 

 

If you think they're remotely the same, you're missing a ton of nuances. And painting everyone who argues against something other than the total removal or Circles as "the same" is one of the reasons it's difficult to take any debate with you seriously. =/

I was saying that their role in the party as conveyors of attitudes was the same (namely the anti-mage-freedom one). There were nuances, but they occupied the same space.

 

 

And yes, the Hinterlands apostates are jerks. But they're mages too, which is why I wondered how you could argue your average joe wouldn't be endangered by suddenly removing all the Circles.

They're no worse than the templars, or the outlaws who start taking over after both sides are beaten. Judging by the codex entries we pick up, the templars are actually more aggressive.

[Han Shot First]

I just always interpreted that as her being keenly aware of the fact that she's not as young as she used to be. After all, irrelevance is her greatest fear and we all know that the older a woman gets, the more irrelevant most societies view her. Orlais seems like exactly the type of society to be fascinated with youth and beauty.

Plus, the game files explain that the reverse aging formula was for Bastien, not Vivienne. The idea that she was older than she appeared and was using magic to reverse her aging was putting two and two together and coming up with six. There's absolutely ZERO evidence that she uses blood magic or an anti-aging potion on herself.

 

Age being an obstacle to Vivienne's plans doesn't make sense if she is only as old as she appears. The Nightmare demon's "..at your age" taunt really only works if Vivienne is older than she looks, and doesn't potentially have several decades of life left. 

[daveliam]

Age being an obstacle to Vivienne's plans doesn't make sense if she is only as old as she appears. The Nightmare demon's "..at your age" taunt really only works if Vivienne is older than she looks, and doesn't potentially have several decades of life left.

Anyone who is sensitive about aging, their looks, their relevance, etc is going to bristle at any statement that starts with 'at your age'. I've never once interpreted that line as her being older than her mid-30's to mid-40's.

[Hellion Rex]

Anyone who is sensitive about aging, their looks, their relevance, etc is going to bristle at any statement that starts with 'at your age'. I've never once interpreted that line as her being older than her mid-30's to mid-40's.

I'd personally put her on the latter end of that spectrum.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

As for Vivienne, she's just Fenris with a staff. Nothing much new there in terms of party attitudes.

 

She is much more reasonable and supportive of mages than Fenris ever was.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Just learned of the Silver shield ending. Thoughts?

[AresKeith]

As for Vivienne, she's just Fenris with a staff. Nothing much new there in terms of party attitudes.

 

The amount of "lols" in this comment

[Potato Cat]

Just learned of the Silver shield ending. Thoughts?

Firstly, the Silver Shields and the Bright Hand both have really stupid names.

 

Secondly, the Silver Shields kinda worry me. Their reason for not rejoining the Templars is that Vivienne is a mage. They sound like a bunch of dicks who'll probably end up worse than the Templars and the Seekers as a whole ever were. But that's just my opinion, and I'll be excited to try it out in a world state. Not that I think they or the Bright Hand will be able to have that much of an effect in future games.

[Steelcan]

Just learned of the Silver shield ending. Thoughts?

bad ass name

[Han Shot First]

Vivienne as Divine with conscripted mages is amusing. I got that on my last playthrough.

 

Fiona & the mages break from Inquisition authority and rebel once again, and Vivienne and her loyalists crush them. The survivors end up rejoining the Inquisition or returning to the circles.

[Boost32]

Vivienne as Divine with conscripted mages is amusing. I got that on my last playthrough.
 
Fiona & the mages break from Inquisition authority and rebel once again, and Vivienne and her loyalists crush them. The survivors end up rejoining the Inquisition or returning to the circles.

She is very competent as Divine, even without the support of the Inquisition, she Crushing all rebellions against her.
Hopefully we can talk more about her plans as Divine when the DLCs are released.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Vivienne as Divine with conscripted mages is amusing. I got that on my last playthrough.

 

Fiona & the mages break from Inquisition authority and rebel once again, and Vivienne and her loyalists crush them. The survivors end up rejoining the Inquisition or returning to the circles.

 

I honestly wonder what went through Fiona's head when she decided to rebel a second time and when she finally lost.

[Han Shot First]

I honestly wonder what went through Fiona's head when she decided to rebel a second time and when she finally lost.

 

Fiona is not the brightest bulb. She acts without thinking.

 

She's pretty much an epic fail as a leader. Nearly every decision she makes in DA:I is a bad one. On a site note, it's a shame she couldn't be judged on the Conscription path and made tranquil. 

[AresKeith]

Fiona is not the brightest bulb. She acts without thinking.

 

She's pretty much an epic fail as a leader. Nearly every decision she makes in DA:I is a bad one. On a site note, it's a shame she couldn't be judged on the Conscription path and made tranquil. 

 

A downside I saw on that path

[Potato Cat]

She is very competent as Divine, even without the support of the Inquisition, she Crushing all rebellions against her.
Hopefully we can talk more about her plans as Divine when the DLCs are released.

I just really hope all the potential Divines get screentime in DLC. I'm genuinely concerned they'll be absent or even have limited content available from any story DLC that's set post-game.

[Boost32]

I just really hope all the potential Divines get screentime in DLC. I'm genuinely concerned they'll be absent or even have limited content available from any story DLC that's set post-game.

They could make a Coronation DLC like the Citadel DLC, you could talk to the Divine and her plans, talk to Fiona/Barris/Fletcher about the future of the mages/templars (and the Bright Hand/Silver Shield/College of Enchanter/Circle of Magi/Templar Order), talk to the Orlais ruler, talk to the Ferelden ruler(s), etc...

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Just learned of the Silver shield ending. Thoughts?

The player eliminated both things that kept the Templars in check. Not sure who would think that was a good idea.

 

I do like that Vivienne's election to Divine is not so easily accepted and that certain things have to go right that make the difference between it being received well or poorly. That alone makes it hundreds of times more sensible than Leliana's ending, which simply checks to see if you did a quest.