5943 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

LOL, yeah. People can hate on Viv all they want, but in the end Sera is probably the most irrelevant companion character in DAI. At least Viv can become Divine, and she has insight into the politics of Orlais, the mage/templar war, etc. Sera is just an idiot with a potty mouth.

 

Same way Iron Bull is irrelevant, Blackwall isn't as important than it seems, Cole's and Dorian's importance ends every quickly

 

People can like and dislike a character if they want, but when they constantly go on about it is when it gets annoying

[YourFunnyUncle]

I think Sera and Vivienne are both great characters. I much prefer Sera as a person but I wouldn't leave either un-recruited. Vivienne's banters are great fun, even as I find myself loathing her for being so horrible.

 

Talking of "besting her" and her attire perhaps not being the best suited for adventuring across Thedas, she totally gets put in her place by the Sky Watcher...

 

[stop_him]

Same way Iron Bull is irrelevant, Blackwall isn't as important than it seems, Cole's and Dorian's importance ends every quickly

 

People can like and dislike a character if they want, but when they constantly go on about it is when it gets annoying

I'm simply saying that out of all the companions, Sera is the most irrelevant.    Other characters have at least some insight into one of the enemy factions or were major characters in the books. Sera offers nothing, and is nothing.

[AresKeith]

I'm simply saying that out of all the companions, Sera is the most irrelevant.    Other characters have at least some insight into one of the enemy factions or were major characters in the books. Sera offers nothing, and is nothing.

 

So your doing the same thing to Sera what others do to Vivienne 

[YourFunnyUncle]

I'm simply saying that out of all the companions, Sera is the most irrelevant. Other characters have at least some insight into one of the enemy factions or were major characters in the books. Sera offers nothing, and is nothing.

On the contrary, Sera offers something that is sorely lacking in every other DA companion: The perspective of the common people.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 You know, Vivienne may lose points with many for her outspoken nature, but I gotta say I really respect that she is upfront with you. As a general rule I like people who've got some guts. Also, it provides a RP opportunity when you can respond to criticism (which this game sorely lacks).

 

I was just watching some youtube clips of DA:I -- there are lots of things I have not seen in the game -- and I lost some respect for Dorian after seeing his reaction to Alexius being made tranquil... or rather, after seeing the dire lack of reaction. You see [Dorian Greatly Disapproves] pop up on the side of the screen, but he really p****foots around his feelings when faced with the guy who lobotomized a man he once respected.

 

Does this guy really believe he is going to redeem Tevinter or something? Even Alistair was not that weak.

[Xilizhra]

 You know, Vivienne may lose points with many for her outspoken nature, but I gotta say I really respect that she is upfront with you. As a general rule I like people who've got some guts. Also, it provides a RP opportunity when you can respond to criticism (which this game sorely lacks).

 

I was just watching some youtube clips of DA:I -- there are lots of things I have not seen in the game -- and I lost some respect for Dorian after seeing his reaction to Alexius being made tranquil... or rather, after seeing the dire lack of reaction. You see [Dorian Greatly Disapproves] pop up on the side of the screen, but he really p****foots around his feelings when faced with the guy who lobotomized a man he once respected.

 

Does this guy really believe he is going to redeem Tevinter or something? Even Alistair was not that weak.

You can't respond to criticism nearly enough when it comes to Vivienne.

[TEWR]

I highly doubt that allowing religiously devout mages like Wynne to serve in the Chantry would lead to Tevinter 2.0 since:

 

A. The South has not been ruled by Tevinter in centuries.  The Imperium is a pariah state that is looked-upon with suspicion and distrust.  Any yoke that could have existed between the Andrastian nations and Tevinter is long-gone.  

 

B. For centuries, mages in the South have been taught to treat their powers with moderation and not allow their magical abilities to define them as individuals.  And on top of that, there is an especially strong distrust towards Blood Magic and other schools associated with maleficarum.  

 

Thus, there is a weak case to be made for the Orlesian Chantry to resemble that of Tevinter in which everyone is (discretely) using blood magic and purchasing slaves by the dozen since those practices (And any attitudes associated with therein) are widely shunned in the South.

 

Mages could join the Chantry under false pretenses, that is to say fooling people into thinking they're good and noble and worthy of a position in the Chantry but secretly working to bring about the Imperium once again. Even Tevinter could take advantage of this, if they wanted.

 

It would be foolish to assume that the only dangerous mage is one who is abundantly forward with their intentions. People are rarely so simple, plots rarely so easy to read.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Just heard Vivienne's response to recruiting the Grey Wardens:

 

"You're going to throw these fools at demons, my dear? Couldn't we just use rocks?"

 

Classic.

[CroGamer002]

Well I finished the game for first time and I kinda accidentally got Vivienne to be the Divine on my first run.

 

I can't say I don't approve, I'm confident she'll do fine.

[Hellion Rex]

All Hail the Queen!

http://venusinfursas...37736/the-queen

[Lady Artifice]

I'm reading about Margaret Thatcher right now, and something clicked for me...

 

 

Political detractor, to a Divine!Vivienne: Mages have no business meddling in politics!

 

Divine!Vivienne, composed and resplendent on her throne: My dear, I do not meddle in politics. I am politics. 

[YourFunnyUncle]

I'm reading about Margaret Thatcher right now, and something clicked for me...


Political detractor, to a Divine!Vivienne: Mages have no business meddling in politics!

Divine!Vivienne, composed and resplendent on her throne: My dear, I do not meddle in politics. I am politics.

Well that sort of makes sense. I loathe both of them in terms of their personality and political stance, but Vivienne is a great character, who I enjoy having in the game, and Thatcher was a hugely successful and influential politician who changed the face of British politics.

[Lady Artifice]

Well that sort of makes sense. I loathe both of them in terms of their personality and political stance, but Vivienne is a great character, who I enjoy having in the game, and Thatcher was a hugely successful and influential politician who changed the face of British politics.

 

Madame de Fer has a lot in common with the Iron Lady, at least when it comes to talent at snarking and conservative politics.

 

Vivienne was one of the few characters that delivered exactly what I anticipated. 

 

I agree with her about almost nothing, and I enjoy every moment of it. I wish she'd had more development during the story, but that issue isn't exclusive to her, and overall I was happy with her arc. 

 

I admit, she's the character that makes me wish that it was possible to rival with them the way you could in DA2, and still achieve a powerful relationship or even a change in their perspective. Still, I have no serious complaints. Vivienne is precisely what she was meant to be. Controversial, polarizing, and both brilliant and glamorous. 

[BabyPuncher]

Vivienne is precisely what she was meant to be. Controversial, polarizing, and both brilliant and glamorous. 

 

Yes. Completely brilliant how she moves furniture around. Oh, and her totally genius idea of pretending the Inquisitor insulted someone that surely wouldn't have fallen apart at all if they had talked for a minute longer and the Inquisitor had actually asked about the alleged insult.

 

Truly, we've reached of apex of character smartness. 

[Lady Artifice]

Yes. Completely brilliant how she moves furniture around. Oh, and her totally genius idea of pretending the Inquisitor insulted someone that surely wouldn't have fallen apart at all if they had talked for a minute longer and the Inquisitor had actually asked about the alleged insult.
 
Truly, we've reached of apex of character smartness.

I realize the notion of someone having an opinion that differs from yours makes you have a fit, but I'm not going to change my opinion for your sake. I'm sorry you didn't like her.

[YourFunnyUncle]

If you get to the stage where she moves your furniture, you've opposed her so often that she knows that you're never going to be of use to her politically so she allows herself some petty fun... And the initial meeting is all about timing. That's the point...

 

As to the Thatcher comparison, she trained as a research chemist, which is probably as close to a mage as you'll get in the real world. She also managed to become leader of a UK political party which is to this day filled with the privately educated (mostly male) offspring of the rich and powerful, despite being the daughter of a grocer. Yeah they've things in common for sure.

[SilentK]

Current Quizzy will make quite a few desicions that Vivienne will agree with, will be fun to see them work together.

[BabyPuncher]

If you get to the stage where she moves your furniture, you've opposed her so often that she knows that you're never going to be of use to her politically so she allows herself some petty fun... And the initial meeting is all about timing. That's the point...

 

Timing that depends on the Inquisitor not bothering to go talk to the guy afterwards and investigate further. Or not bothering to say "Wait, what insult was this?" when the guy was actually frozen. And a 'plan' that depends on Inquisitor, who is a complete stranger at the time, being pleased and impressed instead of outraged at her intervention and casual offer to murder.

 

The furniture thing might be more forgivable if she took literally one single action throughout the entire story that demonstrated her being any sort of smart or capable.

[YourFunnyUncle]

Timing that depends on the Inquisitor not bothering to go talk to the guy afterwards and investigate further. Or not bothering to say "Wait, what insult was this?" when the guy was actually frozen. And a 'plan' that depends on Inquisitor, who is a complete stranger at the time, being pleased and impressed instead of outraged at her intervention and casual offer to murder.

It's a calculated gamble. She's relying on your confusion and her taking control of the conversation. Of course it could go wrong, but she knows that even as a human noble you're out of your element at an Orlesian ball. It's about showmanship as much as logic. Maybe given time you'd assess the situation more clearly, but you don't have that time.

 

I've no idea when you think that you'd go and talk to him, as he is escorted out in shame from her party at her house. It's early enough in the game that you don't have the political clout to make a scene and you're in the middle of her territory.

 

You also don't have to be pleased to be impressed and think her a better political ally than enemy, and If you're outraged by her actions, then you don't have to recruit her. She's an optional character, after all.

[BabyPuncher]

It's a calculated gamble. She's relying on your confusion and her taking control of the conversation. Of course it could go wrong, but she knows that even as a human noble you're out of your element at an Orlesian ball. It's about showmanship as much as logic. Maybe given time you'd assess the situation more clearly, but you don't have that time.

 

I've no idea when you think that you'd go and talk to him, as he is escorted out in shame from her party at her house. It's early enough in the game that you don't have the political clout to make a scene and you're in the middle of her territory.

 

You also don't have to be pleased to be impressed and think her a better political ally than enemy, and If you're outraged by her actions, then you don't have to recruit her. She's an optional character, after all.

 

How many assumptions is that piled all on top of each other? We're nervous, we're low on time, we're 'in her territory,' we can't walk to the guy's house after he leaves the party, we can't make a scene, we can't use our continent wide network of spies to simply send the guy a letter...

 

It's not a calculated risk. It's a flatly stupid plan.

 

Weather you recruit her or not isn't the point. The point is that Vivianne just isn't very smart.

[YourFunnyUncle]

How many assumptions is that piled all on top of each other? We're nervous, we're low on time, we're 'in her territory,' we can't walk to the guy's house after he leaves the party, we can't make a scene, we can't use our continent wide network of spies to simply send the guy a letter...

 

It's not a calculated risk. It's a flatly stupid plan.

 

Weather you recruit her or not isn't the point. The point is that Vivianne just isn't very smart.

The only important thing in her plan is that you don't question the scene as it unfolds. Finding out the truth about the insult afterwards is not important. It's not about that. The Orlesian game isn't about truth, it's about appearances. She manipulated the guy into making a scene in front of everyone, from which he's not going to be able to come back, whether you actually insulted him or not. That's not how the Orlesian Game works. His reputation is destroyed, and Leliana/Josephine would tell you as much.

 

She demonstrated both her political and magical power. You don't have to believe the truth of the scene you saw in hindsight. You don't have to like her. You just have to want her as an ally instead of an enemy.

[BabyPuncher]

The only important thing in her plan is that you don't question the scene as it unfolds. Finding out the truth about the insult afterwards is not important. It's not about that. The Orlesian game isn't about truth, it's about appearances. She manipulated the guy into making a scene in front of everyone, from which he's not going to be able to come back, whether you actually insulted him or not. That's not how the Orlesian Game works. His reputation is destroyed, and Leliana/Josephine would tell you as much.

 

She demonstrated both her political and magical power. You don't have to believe the truth of the scene you saw in hindsight. You don't have to like her. You just have to want her as an ally instead of an enemy.

 

Then it was a total failure, since I don't really want stupid people as my allies. Of course, that wasn't written in as an option, and BioWare can write the Inquisitor to react however they choose...

[YourFunnyUncle]

Then it was a total failure, since I don't really want stupid people as my allies. Of course, that wasn't written in as an option, and BioWare can write the Inquisitor to react however they choose...

Maybe they chose to write the inquisitor as someone reacting in the moment as opposed to with the god-like powers of hindsight and the pause button...

[BabyPuncher]

It doesn't take god-like powers of hindsight to go walk to the guy's house afterwards and find out what insulted him so badly.