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The Vivienne Thread - more than just parlor tricks


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#5826
Potato Cat

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It's nice to see this thread again.

 

And Vivienne had some amazing moments in this DLC. Loved to bits before, love even more afterwards.

 

My only problem is that a dialogue triggered, (I think the third of it's kind), when she asked about the Inquisitor's hand just before stepping through the final eluvian in the Crossroads to the last segment of the DLC. Because of that, I couldn't answer her before the loading screen came up and when I reloaded an autosave, the dialogue didn't trigger. I want that Vivienne content!! :P


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#5827
Potato Cat

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Also, to celebrate being back on the front page and because this is totally what happens in game:

tumblr_ntt2pmAK4i1tg63r2o1_r1_540.gif

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http://albaharu.tumb...r-this-is#notes


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#5828
teh DRUMPf!!

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 Yup, good to see this thread back up. A few random and some long-winded thoughts/ramblings here on Vivienne in the DLC......

 

 

-- I think leadership looks good on her.

 

-- Speaking of looking good, she looked great -- physically -- in that swimsuit thingy she was wearing during "Spa Day" (as she called it). I value my friendly/platonic relationship with her, so I... tried not to notice it too much. xD

 

-- Vivienne kicks ass out in the 'field, but we already knew that.

 

-- I said I would kill Solas. Vivienne greatly approved; my Inq's seem to get that a lot. Just more reason why I feel others are playing wrong when they say "ugh, Vivienne never approves of what I do or say!" =p

 

-- Vivienne being Divine made the final decision fairly easy for me; I handed the Inquisition over. What can I say? I love to spoil her. In truth I likely would have handed it over to the other two, just not quite as convicted.

 

That said, I'm not sure why I was railroaded into giving the Inquisition away or disbanding it. I get it given what Josephine says earlier, but after having thwarted the Qunari's plans, I felt like I had all the reason I needed to justify keeping it around as-is. No big deal though, because again, Vivienne largely sees things the way I (and, by extension, my Inquisitor) do, so I imagine things would be little different.

 

-- re: Viv/Cass dichotomy, for those who are not aware, Cass begins to have some issues with Vivienne here as Divine. The former feels she is not what the Chantry needed at the head, and eventually gets tired of serving her. I can quite easily see how. Cassandra is very pious. Vivienne quite simply is not. Vivienne would be more inclined to political affairs that come with the position and so I can easily see where the problem lies -- Cass would get tired of it and want more focus on religious matters.

 

Sorry to say, though, I do not sympathize with Cassandra much here. I find that Cass has a tendency to be reasonable and idealistic to a fault, at a point where Vivienne's approach of kicking down at times really comes as a breath of fresh air in contrast. And in the tumultuous aftermath of the fight with Cory and Viv's incoming reforms (mage in power, changes to Circle), I really feel like the value of a candidate who is politics-oriented would be valuable, and largely necessary to navigate the uneasy political waters. I approve of Vivienne's style. A pity Cass does not, but I am not real sure what she is thinking, and truth be told I have never really felt her political opinions enough to feel like she might have the right idea(s).

 

-- re: the College. I do not mind its existence alongside the Circle, and thinking it over some more, I can at some level see the value of it -- competition breeds results, and better that the mages compete among themselves rather than with mundanes. It just had a rather clumsy explanation behind it. The College props up out of nowhere pretty much, and Vivienne allows it as a courtesy to the Inquisition that never supported it. Okay? I guess it's a good thing I did not recruit the mages, then, and see her crush the College as she did earlier.

 

Vivienne is a pragmatist, though, and I can easily imagine and support her sanctioning it for the practical reasons involved. Yeah, I think my explanation works a little better. I will go with that one instead.  :)


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#5829
SgtSteel91

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Well the Inquisitor may not have supported the idea of the College, but Mages who served the Inquisition may have wanted it and it seems like Vivienne is throwing them a bone for their service.



#5830
Potato Cat

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Yeah, with the Cassandra/Vivienne thing, I wish they had gone into greater detail with Cassandra's problems with Vivienne's reign. They do have similar similar views, even if Cassandra is far more idealistic. Honestly, the way Cassandra had phrased it in conversation, 'Most Holy is a tyrant,', I'd assumed it was for both Vivienne and hardened Leliana. Though even then, both Divines probably employ different methods, (if Vivienne's approval gains from the judgements are anything to go by), but outright 'perversion' of the Chant? I honestly don't really see where she should have a problem. I still think having a political Divine is better here though, as much as I love Cass. For me, there needs to be mage Divine who knows the Circles and how to make them better.

 

And I did roll my eyes at the creation of the College under Vivienne, but I am excited to see the plot happen in the future, so I understand the writers doing it. They could have foreshadowed it properly though.


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#5831
Boost32

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Thats something I didn't like about Cass/Viv in the DLC, their relationship is not explained, she says she is a tyrant, but doesn't explain why.
And while I really like Cass character, I cant see anyone else as Divine beyond Vivienne now. She being less religious and more about politics is a plus to me.



And the College is a major retcon for me, lucklly its only a few ex-Inquisition mages who are part of it and the majority of the mages still in the Circles.
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#5832
SgtSteel91

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Anyone do a playthrough with high-approval Vivienne while Leliana was Divine Victoria? In the playthrough I did Trespasser I didn't recruit her. How is she in that? Does she tell you she's going to start her own Circle?



#5833
Boost32

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Anyone do a playthrough with high-approval Vivienne while Leliana was Divine Victoria? In the playthrough I did Trespasser I didn't recruit her. How is she in that? Does she tell you she's going to start her own Circle?


She says she is the one who will have to deal with the mess Leliana did and in the epilogue she made her own Circle with few mages but with a lot of political power.
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#5834
SgtSteel91

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She says she is the one who will have to deal with the mess Leliana did and in the epilogue she made her own Circle with few mages but with a lot of political power.

 

Thanks!

 

Is she still friendly with you, day spas and all?



#5835
Boost32

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Thanks!
 
Is she still friendly with you, day spas and all?

Yes, I think its the same as Cass as Divine.

http://youtu.be/hG4CrdvNc3k
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#5836
SgtSteel91

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Yes, I think its the same as Cass as Divine.

 

Thanks again!

 

And I found this video asking for her opinion on Divine Leliana and the College of Enchanters.

 

 

Seems to be mostly critical but with small bits of praise, if only because it hasn't completely fallen apart.



#5837
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Vivienne is a boss, she made a Circle to rival the College with a few mages and a lot of political power. Thats why she will always be my Inquisitor BFF and thats why she will be my canon Divine.

#5838
SgtSteel91

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Vivienne is a boss, she made a Circle to rival the College with a few mages and a lot of political power. Thats why she will always be my Inquisitor BFF and thats why she will be my canon Divine.

 

Something I hope to see in this scenario is Vivienne's Circle having political connections while the College has connections with the common people as a way to match each other.

 

Something I also liked in Trespasser was Vivienne's banter with Thom Rainier if you made him a Warden. She actually compliments him on wearing the Grey well and calls him Ser Rainier.



#5839
Undead Han

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I prefer Vivienne more as Grand Enchanter than Divine.


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#5840
SgtSteel91

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At first I was put off at the idea of Vivienne starting a new Circle with Divine Leliana, but after chewing on it I can see it as just a new Institution opening up to compete with the College of Enchanters (like with real world Universities) and curb any Mages who could negatively take advantage of the Inquisition disbanding or transitioning.

 

There should totally be some sort of College sports teams for both institutions to compete in. Are there any Mage sports in Thedas?

 

What would the mascots be for the College of Enchanters and Circle of Magi? Maybe the Knight Enchanters for the Circle and Spellbinders for the College?



#5841
Akkos

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Still less content. She felt a bit powerless in this DLC.  All I did to make sure she end up as maleficient was basically for nothing.  I was a bit dissappointed a romanced Cass was disgusted with Vivienne's reign.

 

Also I don't understand why there was less details about what she did to keep the chantry still working. Only Dorian (About her hats) and Cassandra (her being a tyrant).  Felt a bit retcon to satisfy part of the audience.

 

Edit: Also the Bull part in my other playthrough, I expected Vivienne to smack the hell out of his head before he betray me. Since Bull see her as a tamassran.

 

Oh I love the bouncing catwalk Viv did in Divine's robes in the end with all crew together.


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#5842
Undead Han

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Interestingly, Vivienne approves of Cassandra's reign as Divine. 

 

My import was Cassandra as Divine, sided with Templars. Vivienne ended up as the Grand Enchanter.


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#5843
Xilizhra

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Does Vivienne still pull off her move of recreating the Circle if you don't recruit her?



#5844
SgtSteel91

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She does.



#5845
Mr.House

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Does Vivienne still pull off her move of recreating the Circle if you don't recruit her?

No different then the collage always appearing even if you helped and redeemed templars, Cass divine and made vivie grand enchanter.



#5846
Xilizhra

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She does.

Not surprising, it didn't seem likely that they'd include a desired outcome for many and base it solely on acquiring less content. Oh well, it's not a terribly problematic scenario.



#5847
Boost32

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I only saw the Circle VS College ending now. Lol, Fiona attacked the Circles and got owner big time by Vivienne

Spoiler


#5848
Master Shiori

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Thats something I didn't like about Cass/Viv in the DLC, their relationship is not explained, she says she is a tyrant, but doesn't explain why.

From what I gathered, both Cass and Leliana tolerate their rivals in the Chantry and try to reason with them. Vivienne simply neutralizes any opposition to her authority. That's something the previous Divines didn't do, which is probably why Cassandra sees her as a tyrant.

 

Personally, since I agree with most of Vivienne's actions as Divine Victoria, I feel her reign is the most stable, since political infighting in the Chantry is cut down to a minimum.



#5849
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Steeled Leliana kill all of her oppositors too.

#5850
Master Shiori

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Steeled Leliana kill all of her oppositors too.

Not sure if that's brought up by Cassandra or anyone in Tresspasser.

 

Also, Viv didn't kill off her opposition. She politically neutralized them.