5943 réponses à ce sujet

[revan11exile]

I guess saturday we will find out quick lets do a Daniel Bryan chant for aViv romance YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

[ForTheWynne]

I guess saturday we will find out quick lets do a Daniel Bryan chant for aViv romance YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

 

YES YES YES

 

I've known she would be my first play through LI (if available) since I first saw her last year

 

Josephine being an LI would definitely lessen the sting of Viv not being one,  but my Inquisitor would be sad for a moment.  Would feel like Samara all over again.

[Nyeredzi]

[Jagged Orchid]

It wouldn't be, but they've generally tried to not play favorites and I think they should stick with that.

 

I don't think a couple groups getting an extra LI is really considered playing favorites. As much as I would like to see a 4/4 split (with Viv being bi mind you), I don't think BW going 5/3 would really be exactly unfair either. Regardless of what direction the go everyone is at least given 2 options.  I want Viv as an LI. I've wanted her as an LI since they first introduced her. While I think things can go either way, I still suspect 5/3.

[Maria Caliban]

It wouldn't be, but they've generally tried to not play favorites and I think they should stick with that.

When have they not played favorites?

TOR? ME 1-2? BG? JE? DA:O?

They've had *one* game with equal distribution and that's only if you ignore the DLC many people got for free.

[In Exile]

When have they not played favorites?

TOR? ME 1-2? BG? JE? DA:O?

They've had *one* game with equal distribution and that's only if you ignore the DLC many people got for free.

 

And also count it as a romance despite the very limited amount of content. 

[Maria Caliban]

Still, it's one game.

[Jagged Orchid]

I think a lot of people are mistaking, 'everyone will have options' for 'everyone will have the same amount of options' 

 

No matter what, someone is going to be missing out somewhere. Or on group will have more options than another. 

 

I just think that people who think that it's going to be perfectly balanced are going to be disappointed. 

[revan11exile]

What do we say to 5 to 3 romance Daniel Bryan says NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO  

[Fizzie Panda]

What do we say to 5 to 3 romance Daniel Bryan says NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO  

Then... we kill him.

 

But seriously, I've been seeing Vivienne as an LI since I first saw her, but if I can't romance her then Josephine it is.

[Maria Caliban]

Daniel is on your side. He's saying 'no' to 5/3 split.

[revan11exile]

4/4 split YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES okay my hands are tired lol

[Nyeredzi]

Vivienne, the black character I hope will be cool

[Sporothrix]

I think a lot of people are mistaking, 'everyone will have options' for 'everyone will have the same amount of options' 

 

No matter what, someone is going to be missing out somewhere. Or on group will have more options than another. 

 

I just think that people who think that it's going to be perfectly balanced are going to be disappointed. 

 

But if it's again lesbians that will be the group that's missing out the most, it will start looking like a pattern. It would remind me situation of lesbians in TV. As less "threatening" than gay men, initially lesbians, or rather merely some lesbian themes, had more visibility in movies and shows. But it was usually just for male gaze and titillation.

But now, as annual GLAAD reports show, it's actually gay male characters that have much bigger visibility than any other sexual minority group.

And it's telling that to these days, majority of lesbian TV characters fall under damaging "lesbian sleeping with a man" trope (6th TV show did it month ago since the end of last year - BTW, half of those shows were run by gay men).

 

In ME, Liara as a romance option for women was leftover of "sexy bisexual alien chick" idea, introduced with "dudebros" playing the game in mind. Gay female players were reminded all the time that it's not for them (even directly by game devs), that by romancing them, they don't do anything lesbian. Apparently to emphasize that, femShep was forced to act like cat in heat in presence of Jacob.

 

But then, ME3 happened, and gay men finally got their romance options. They even gained possibility to make a remark to their sexuality. Meanwhile, not much changed in approach to lesbian women. Nothing has been done to Liara's romance to emphasize that it is indeed lesbian romance, all what was needed was short dialogue like one manShep had with Steve. FemShep was yet again forced to act like having sexual interest in a man. And look at Traynor, the lesbian NPC. While Cortez's sexuality was treated with full respect, Sam was basically there to tease and titillate straight men. Just look at this scene (and comments below):

 

http://youtu.be/maBK0sTa-0k?t=1m8s

 

 

In DAO, both gay men and women had only one option, but still the one for lesbians was a bit less developed (as the only one didn't have party banter addressing their relationship - there was one when you romanced Leliana as a man). I would say, DA2 was the only time there was fair approach (excluding DLC).

[Jagged Orchid]

But if it's again lesbians that will be the group that's missing out the most, it will start looking like a pattern. It would remind me situation of lesbians in TV. As less "threatening" than gay men, initially lesbians, or rather merely some lesbian themes, had more visibility in movies and shows. But it was usually just for male gaze and titillation.

But now, as annual GLAAD reports show, it's actually gay male characters that have much bigger visibility than any other sexual minority group.

And it's telling that to these days, majority of lesbian TV characters fall under damaging "lesbian sleeping with a man" trope (6th TV show did it month ago since the end of last year - BTW, half of those shows were run by gay men).

 

In ME, Liara as a romance option for women was leftover of "sexy bisexual alien chick" idea, introduced with "dudebros" playing the game in mind. Gay female players were reminded all the time that it's not for them (even directly by game devs), that by romancing them, they don't do anything lesbian. Apparently to emphasize that, femShep was forced to act like cat in heat in presence of Jacob.

 

But then, ME3 happened, and gay men finally got their romance options. They even gained possibility to make a remark to their sexuality. Meanwhile, not much changed in approach to lesbian women. Nothing has been done to Liara's romance to emphasize that it is indeed lesbian romance, all what was needed was short dialogue like one manShep had with Steve. FemShep was yet again forced to act like having sexual interest in a man. And look at Traynor, the lesbian NPC. While Cortez's sexuality was treated with full respect, Sam was basically there to tease and titillate straight men. Just look at this scene (and comments below):

 

http://youtu.be/maBK0sTa-0k?t=1m8s

 

 

In DAO, both gay men and women had only one option, but still the one for lesbians was a bit less developed (as the only one didn't have party banter addressing their relationship - there was one when you romanced Leliana as a man). I would say, DA2 was the only time there was fair approach (excluding DLC).

 

I had this really long reply written out, but it was going way too off topic so I deleted it. If you want to talk about out this in more detail, I'd be happy to PM what I was going to say, but for now the gist is that, I agree with most of what you said.

 

That said, I still stand by what I said. As much as I would love everything to be perfectly equal, I think it's an unreal expectation. I want Vivienne as an LI. I wanted her as an LI the first day we saw her. However, if we only have Sera and Josephine, but they are well written, I'm not going to feel slighted just because I had two options, but straight women had three. 

[Xilizhra]

I had this really long reply written out, but it was going way too off topic so I deleted it. If you want to talk about out this in more detail, I'd be happy to PM what I was going to say, but for now the gist is that, I agree with most of what you said.

 

That said, I still stand by what I said. As much as I would love everything to be perfectly equal, I think it's an unreal expectation. I want Vivienne as an LI. I wanted her as an LI the first day we saw her. However, if we only have Sera and Josephine, but they are well written, I'm not going to feel slighted just because I had two options, but straight women had three. 

Ah? In that case, I'll take your helping of slight and kindle it into rage.

[Sporothrix]

That said, I still stand by what I said. As much as I would love everything to be perfectly equal, I think it's an unreal expectation. I want Vivienne as an LI. I wanted her as an LI the first day we saw her. However, if we only have Sera and Josephine, but they are well written, I'm not going to feel slighted just because I had two options, but straight women had three. 

 

Straight women. And gay men. And straight men having LI that's of much bigger plot importance, or at least that's how it looks like as for now. Sorry, maybe it's due to the fact I live in very homophobic country and games and other media are my escape from it, so I'm more sensitive to everything that reminds me of my second class citizen status, but I'm not going to pretend that it happens yet again just by 'accident'.

[GriffinFire]

I thought I remembered a dev post somewhere about equal romance options per orientation being a priority, though equal options for every race-gender combination weren't, but I can't seem to track it down.

 

Also, the Dragon Age team is separate from the Mass Effect and TOR teams, and I think it's unlikely for DA to move backwards in terms of equality.

[The Elder King]

Straight women. And gay men. And straight men having LI that's of much bigger plot importance, or at least that's how it looks like as for now. Sorry, maybe it's due to the fact I live in very homophobic country and games and other media are my escape from it, so I'm more sensitive to everything that reminds me of my second class citizen status, but I'm not going to pretend that it happens yet again just by 'accident'.

You mean that if this scenario is going to happen, Bioware wanted to give lesbians less and not plot-relevant options?

[Potato Cat]

I still think it would be best Vivienne is a LI. If we leave behind the discussion about 5/3 vs 4/4, I think she'd make a great LI with a great romance arc. Furthermore, I think it's highly likely. Even if she was a man, I'd think it highly likely. Mary Kirby's other character is Varric, who's still clearly in love with Bianca. I'm not pretending to be Varric's biggest fan, but I still think it would be somewhat detrimental to his character to have him available as a LI. And I personally think it's unlikely Mary will not be writing another LI this time around. Possible, but unlikely.

[The Elder King]

I thought I remembered a dev post somewhere about equal romance options per orientation being a priority, though equal options for every race-gender combination weren't, but I can't seem to track it down.
 
Also, the Dragon Age team is separate from the Mass Effect and TOR teams, and I think it's unlikely for DA to move backwards in terms of equality.

This post?

Many at BioWare, including myself, recognize that choice is important.  I don't know what the breakdowns of the race restrictions are or how severe, but I can definitely say that orientation choice definitely exists.
 
 
EDIT: Since I realize this can be misunderstood, I know orientation choice exists across races.  I don't know how the race breakdown will necessarily be.  And at this point it serves as a reminder that I probably shouldn't overspeak on stuff that I don't directly work with, so I should be a bit more careful.  Sorry!

As for myself, judging by this and other posts, i think the two race-gated LI will be male and female bisexual. Equal options in sexuality, just not available to all races.

[Maria Caliban]

After ME, I'm not bother by the prospect of gay men having more LIs than I do. Giving straight women and gay men some extra love is fine.

Cassandra not being available is a separate issue than the gender split of LIs. As this is the VIVIENNE thread, I don't see the need to discuss Cassandra being straight in it, especially as that same discussion is happening right now in the Romance thread.

Personally, I can't wait to get to know Vivienne and see what her deal it. Hopefully, it will involve tons of snark and acerbic barbs.

[LiaraShepard]

 

 

But then, ME3 happened, and gay men finally got their romance options. They even gained possibility to make a remark to their sexuality. Meanwhile, not much changed in approach to lesbian women. Nothing has been done to Liara's romance to emphasize that it is indeed lesbian romance, all what was needed was short dialogue like one manShep had with Steve. FemShep was yet again forced to act like having sexual interest in a man. And look at Traynor, the lesbian NPC. While Cortez's sexuality was treated with full respect, Sam was basically there to tease and titillate straight men. Just look at this scene (and comments below):

 

 

 

what? Steve was the most boring character ever. He didn't have any personality flaws. He was just there and that was it. Gay men aren't better treated than lesbian women....

[GriffinFire]

Yes, I'd be very interested to see what Vivienne thinks of being in a romantic relationship at all, let alone with various types of Inquisitors.

 

 

This post?

 

I think there was a different one I was thinking of; I'll keep looking.

[Xilizhra]

You mean that if this scenario is going to happen, Bioware wanted to give lesbians less and not plot-relevant options?

Or simply didn't care if that was the outcome.

 

Given that every single lesbian relationship thus far has ended badly, and most of them through betrayal, I have low hopes.