155 réponses à ce sujet

[Majestic Jazz]

This is not a Varic bash thread but rather what Varic in DA:I represents and why I think this is troublesome.

 

To this date there are 4 Dragon Age games:

 

1) Origins

2) Awakening (Expansion)

3) DA2

4) Inquisition

 

Out of these 4, there have only been 3 unique Dwarf companions:

 

1) Oghren (Origins & Awakening)

2) Sigrun (Awakening)

3) Varric  (DA2 & Inquisition)

 

This shows that TWICE, a dwarf companion would brought back to be a companion again. Outside of the Dwarf race, this has only happened once with Humans (Anders) and none with Elves.

 

 

Now I understand that in the land of Thedas Dwarves do not have the same numbers as Humans and even Elves, but that does not explain why they seem to be under represented in the games as companions. There could have been a new male dwarf introduced in Awakening instead of using Oghren again and bringing Varric back in DA:I is just pure fan service if you ask me. When I first saw Varric in the initial E3 2013 trailer, I knew 100% why he was there, fan service. Furthermore, I knew that Varric would somehow be the only Dwarf companion and that I would be denied of seeing a new and fresh Dwarf companion.

 

This is why Varric irks me. While his personality does irk me and I find myself in the rare group of people who actually dislike his character and finds him annoying and most importantly, NOT funny. What really bothers me about Varric is that the only other prominent Dwarf that will be represented in the Inquisition will be my male dwarf inquisitor. 

 

I am sure that Varric will have his moments in DA:I and will shine. I cant help but to wonder how great it would have been to have the race expanded upon in terms of companions, by having a fresh experience, possibly even a female dwarf. Hell, perhaps Blackwall could have been a Grey Warden Dwarf. Perhaps Cullen's character could have been a Dwarf. 

 

My 2cents

[Enigmatick]

Varric* And dwarves are a bit problematic as a lot of them don't like the surface and the ones that do are usually deep within some faction already, still I think you have point.

[Majestic Jazz]

Varric* And dwarves are a bit problematic as a lot of them don't like the surface and the ones that do are usually deep within some faction already, still I think you have point.

 

You mean to tell me the writters are plot-blocked with Dwarves because it would be "too hard" for them to create a dwarf character fighting on the surface? Its Bioware, I am pretty sure they can come up with plot reasons as to why a dwarf is on the surface fighting alongside the Inquisitor, so that excuse does not hold weight. 

 

If that were the case, they could have made a fresh new male/female Dwarf who was born and raised on the surface. So either Bioware went the "Safe" route and just recycled Varric, or they just brought Varric back for fan-service. Similar to Tali and Garrus in Mass Effect.

[NoForgiveness]

Ehh... I don't care. Varric is cool and he looks ****** awesome with the chest plate and shoulder pads. So I don't mind him sticking around

[Caldain]

While I agree that there should be more dwarves in general, at this stage we don't know that there aren't more prominent dwarves in Inquisition.  Dagna for example has some kind of connection to the Inquisition and it does look like we're going to be going back to the Deep Roads  (if one of the previous trailers is any indication) so chances are good that there'll be more.  I personally would like to see Orzammar in some fashion so we can see how Bhelen/Harrowmont are doing.

 

Given Bioware's proclivity to beards, it's kind of a surprise that there aren't more dwarves.  You'd think there'd be a dwarf npc for every bearded developer...

 

But honestly, I'm just glad to be able to be a dwarf again.

[Beerfish]

Step one, "This is not a bash Varric thread."

Step two, bash Varric with a louisvile slugger in 3/4 of the opening post.

 

Makes sense!

[daveliam]

I am also a little disappointed that we have only had three dwarf companions.  At this point, we've had as many spirits (Wynne's spirit, Justice (twice), and now Cole) as we have had dwarves, which seems off.

 

I really wish we had more dwarves (only DA: A had more than one dwarf in the group) and, especially, more dwarf ladies.  They are so under-represented in fantasy in general that I'd like to see Bioware subvert that.

[Majestic Jazz]

While I agree that there should be more dwarves in general, at this stage we don't know that there aren't more prominent dwarves in Inquisition.  Dagna for example has some kind of connection to the Inquisition and it does look like we're going to be going back to the Deep Roads  (if one of the previous trailers is any indication) so chances are good that there'll be more.  I personally would like to see Orzammar in some fashion so we can see how Bhelen/Harrowmont are doing.

 

Given Bioware's proclivity to beards, it's kind of a surprise that there aren't more dwarves.  You'd think there'd be a dwarf npc for every bearded developer...

 

But honestly, I'm just glad to be able to be a dwarf again.

 

1) I didn't know Dagna was in DA:I 

2) I cannot wait to see Orzammar in this current gen and it's open world nature that DA:I will be about.

3) I am glad that we can be a Dwarf character again.

4) I am sure there will be some Dwarf NPCs that is part of the Inquisition, but I am talking more about companions, people that actually fight with you, can be romanced, and so on.

[Cespar]

Why I don't share your dislike for Varric, and I'm glad he is returning as an companion. I can connect on what you're saying, and I do believe that dwarves doesn't get much attention. I'm bioware fan, but also a dwarf fan, so it bothers me how they exclude the dwarves. Which is way all my main protagonist  are dwarves, so that Thedas have some important dwarf figures. But, I'm not going to judge just yet. I'm going to wait and see how DA:I handles the dwarves. 

[Andraste_Reborn]

While I love Varric and am delighted to have him back, I am also sad that there isn't another dwarf in the party. I am especially put out by the general lack of dwarf women.

 

That said, I'm crossing my fingers that there are some important dwarf NPCs in the game - having Dagna in the Inquisition sounds very cool.

[Majestic Jazz]

I am also a little disappointed that we have only had three dwarf companions.  At this point, we've had as many spirits (Wynne's spirit, Justice (twice), and now Cole) as we have had dwarves, which seems off.

 

I really wish we had more dwarves (only DA: A had more than one dwarf in the group) and, especially, more dwarf ladies.  They are so under-represented in fantasy in general that I'd like to see Bioware subvert that.

Yeah, I feel your pain. Personally, I am not really a big fan of Dwarves. In Dragon Age or in fantasy in general (such as Lord of the Rings). I have always been attached to Elves because their backgrounds are always exotic and less generic like the Humans. 

[Caldain]

1) I didn't know Dagna was in DA:I 

2) I cannot wait to see Orzammar in this current gen and it's open world nature that DA:I will be about.

3) I am glad that we can be a Dwarf character again.

4) I am sure there will be some Dwarf NPCs that is part of the Inquisition, but I am talking more about companions, people that actually fight with you, can be romanced, and so on.

 

Dagna was referenced in the PAX gameplay from last year as "Artifcer Dagna" and you can use agents to help her do stuff.  So I'm hopeful that we'll see her hanging around Skyhold. 

 

But yeah, more dwarves in general would be nice.  I found their culture, although recognizable, also quite refreshing.  The dwarven origins were my favorite from the first game and I'd love to see them expand on it in the future.

[Deflagratio]

From a lore standpoint, it makes sense. Dwarves are supposed to be isolationists by nature, and so even if you want to argue "They can contrive a reason for Dwarves to come" I think it actually undermines the dwarven lore.

 

If you want my opinion (And even if you don't, it's a forum, so whatever) to get a better Dwarf ratio, you need to create content that really focuses on the Dwarves themselves. Perhaps some kind of juxtaposition expansion or even a whole Dragon Age game that deals with Dwarven society (Which I believe is ripe for a spinoff narrative, preserving the gameplay of course) which would make the majority of your followers Dwarves, with only light sprinkle of the other races in the conflict.

[Majestic Jazz]

From a lore standpoint, it makes sense. Dwarves are supposed to be isolationists by nature, and so even if you want to argue "They can contrive a reason for Dwarves to come" I think it actually undermines the dwarven lore.

 

 

Still a fail excuse.

 

There is a population of "Surface" dwarves all around Thedas. You mean not one of them would be relevant enough to be part of the Inquisiton instead of Varic?

[NoForgiveness]

From a lore standpoint, it makes sense. Dwarves are supposed to be isolationists by nature, and so even if you want to argue "They can contrive a reason for Dwarves to come" I think it actually undermines the dwarven lore.

 

If you want my opinion (And even if you don't, it's a forum, so whatever) to get a better Dwarf ratio, you need to create content that really focuses on the Dwarves themselves. Perhaps some kind of juxtaposition expansion or even a whole Dragon Age game that deals with Dwarven society (Which I believe is ripe for a spinoff narrative, preserving the gameplay of course) which would make the majority of your followers Dwarves, with only light sprinkle of the other races in the conflict.

 

They also take 1st place on the endangered species list(at least out of the 4)

[Deflagratio]

Still a fail excuse.

 

There is a population of "Surface" dwarves all around Thedas. You mean not one of them would be relevant enough to be part of the Inquisiton instead of Varic?

 

Yes, I do mean that.

 

Prove me wrong.

[Batknight]

Well I don't know if it will make up for the lack of dwarf companions or not but maybe well visit Kal-Sharok during the course of the game. I don't know for sure, though going by the trailers we we'll be visiting some area with a lot of dwarves in it, so that's something.

[TurretSyndrome]

Bringing back Oghren to DA Awakening was a bad move in my opinion, a lot of people did not like his "jokes". I did like him in Origins but started wishing he'd stayed there as soon as I saw how he took his Joining, but I digress.

 

I do agree that there need to be more dwarf characters in the game. I think DA:I would've been an excellent opportunity to bring a dwarf from Kal-Sharok and have that person give us his/her perspective on the whole Orzammar-Kal-Sharok business. So bringing back Varric to fill the same role certainly feels like such a waste.

 

Having said all that, I don't think the developers brought Varric back just because of fan-service. I think they heard the community when they said they wanted characters only to be brought back when it made sense. So I tend to believe there is a solid reason for them for doing so.

[Majestic Jazz]

Yes, I do mean that.

 

Prove me wrong.

No, I will not prove you wrong as I do not want to get into an elementary argument over who is right or wrong. All I am pointing out is that they could have found another Rogue (or Warrior) surface dwarf to join the Inquisition. He/she could have had their own little story as to why they are living on the surface instead of underground, just as Varic had his story in DA2 and I doubt Varic is THE ONLY surface dwarf in all Thedas. Hell, even the Inquisitor can be a Dwarf and I am sure he/she will have a stock story of why he/she is out on the surface running the Inquisition. 

[thats1evildude]

The dwarven population is dwindling and most surface dwarves are merchants and craftsmen, not adventurers. Also, dwarves cannot be mages, so they can only be rogues and warriors. And the height issue presents problems with making them LIs. They just don't fit in very well as party members.

[Hiemoth]

If I recall correctly, the reason Oghren was in Awakenings was that they wanted to enforce continuity between the two games and additionally he had been in a somewhat difficult character in DAO as you could play over two thirds of the game before receiving him as a character. Actually, if you followed Bioware's level-range approach, you actually went to Orzammar last. Thus he had been reduced to a more minor role in DAO than perhaps originally intended and they wanted to give the character more room.

 

As for Varric, okay, you dislike him, but even in your initial post you admit that he is a popular character. The ending of DA2 also makes him the easiest character from that game to have in DAI and represent continuity between the games, similarly to Leliana. As for why there aren't any more dwarven characters, I guess it is a fair question, but a difficult one to answer without playing the game first. As has been pointed out, dwarves as a group are not really an active party in the conflict, as based on the existing lore they do not really care that much what is happening on the surface unless it is a blight. Based on different interested represented by the currently known companions, the Grey Warden seems to be only one that could have been a dwarf by background, but even that is a null point before we actually see his story and how it fits in to the game.

 

And, finally, your spirit comparison is incorrect. Wynne was never a spirit, she was a mage containing the spirit of Hope. Thus she was not like Justice or Cole.

[Majestic Jazz]

Bringing back Oghren to DA Awakening was a bad move in my opinion, a lot of people did not like his "jokes". I did like him in Origins but started wishing he'd stayed there as soon as I saw how he took his Joining, but I digress.

 

I do agree that there need to be more dwarf characters in the game. I think DA:I would've been an excellent opportunity to bring a dwarf from Kal-Sharok and have that person give us his/her perspective on the whole Orzammar-Kal-Sharok business. So bringing back Varric to fill the same role certainly feels like such a waste.

 

Having said all that, I don't think the developers brought Varric back just because of fan-service. I think they heard the community when they said they wanted characters only to be brought back when it made sense. So I tend to believe there is a solid reason for them for doing so.

 

I for one agree with your first point about Oghren in Awakening. He was okay in Origins but in Awakening, he just seemed stale and annoying. With your second point, I again agree. The writers at Bioware could have created a story behind a surface Dwarf or a traditional underground Dwarf and explain how he/she came to be part of your Inquisition and give new insight to the Dwarven culture that we did not get with Varic, Segrun, or Oghren. As for your third point, I disagree. I believe he is purely fan service, brought back because he happened to have a huge following like Garrus in Mass Effect. Again, I am sure that he will have is shining moments in DA:I, but I still believe that it would have been better to experience a different dwarf perspective.

[Majestic Jazz]

 As has been pointed out, dwarves as a group are not really an active party in the conflict, as based on the existing lore they do not really care that much what is happening on the surface unless it is a blight. Based on different interested represented by the currently known companions, the Grey Warden seems to be only one that could have been a dwarf by background, but even that is a null point before we actually see his story and how it fits in to the game.

 

 

Good insight about Oghren, but with Varic, you pretty much confirm that he is fan-service.

 

However, you like  a few others keeps bringing up this idea that there are no dwarf companions because they are a small population and have no purpose (outside of trading and Grey Wardens) to be on the surface. So how does that explain the Dwarf Inquisitor then? Why the hell is he/she on the surface leading a faction that can/will change the course of Thedas? 

 

Point is, if Bioware could have created a backstory that would make sense for a Dwarf to be the leader of the Inquisition, then I am sure they could have created a backstory to why a Dwarf is a companion to the Inquisitor, within the Inquisition. 

[NoForgiveness]

 existing lore they do not really care that much what is happening on the surface unless it is a blight.

 mage containing the spirit of Hope

 

They actually admit that even if the topside world ended, they wouldn't care much as their society would keep going. Also it was a spirit of faith.

[Ailith Tycane]

So play as a dwarf inquisitor to slightly make up the difference, lol.