120 réponses à ce sujet

[Doominike]

If it's something that I think is a good idea I'll already have thought of it myself

[BubbleDncr]

I don't think they'd make us a Keeper, that's a bit too much to put on the player in the beginning, especially for people who would be new to the series and not know anything about the Dalish. 

[Dean_the_Young]

If it's something that I think is a good idea I'll already have thought of it myself

But what if you lack the information to think of it yourself? What if your necessary source of information was someone whose job it was to provide you with relevant information and recommendations on how to act on it?

[Dean_the_Young]

As for the PC being a Keeper, I doubt it will ever happen. Not because of it being Elvish, but rather because it would entail or imply being a subject matter expert. And PC's are never subject matter experts as far as the narrative is concerned.

 

Part of this is remembering who the PC is, and who it is played by. Every PC needs to be written to be compatible for someone whose first game is the current one. They can't be assumed to know about in-depth lore even if you think they really should- but when a subject matter expert doesn't know their own subject matter, there's a bit of an obstacle in that. It's easier to write around a Dalish who might have spent more time hunting than learning about halla, but harder when the Dalish in question is supposed to be the master of the lore. Unless, of course, you start throwing in forgetfullness tropes like amnesia... at which part the PC isn't actually a subject matter expert. At which point, there's not much added from going past the non-SME stage for the PC. Lore SME's are going to come from NPCs regardless.

 

The other part is that even if you are a SME, in RPGs (and especially Bioware games) this pretty much never means actually talking or having the options to show being a SME. It is almost always a case of claiming, rather than demonstrating, and even moreso the more divergent the potential PC types. In ME, there was only one meaningful career for Shepard, professional special forces soldier, and yet there was no real SME demonstrated. The 'military' themed or related dialogue was, well, haphazard and superficial at best and laughable at worst. In DAO, even less- not that it helped that you were ablibbing 'how to be a Grey Warden.'

 

In other words, being identified as a Keeper wouldn't actually mean that the player would be able to talk like a Keeper. For someone who wants to be a Keeper because they'd like to debate the finer nuances of elven history, religious mythology, or learn more about various Dalish philosophies... it almost certainly wouldn't happen. Or at least, no more than a non-Keeper player, who would generally be able to access the same sorts of dialogue and thus remove any competitive advantage.

 

If your ambition for playing as a Keeper is to learn more about the Dalish than you would otherwise, you'd be setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Gervaise]

Hi there, I'm not very good at doing links, but for those who are interested, the bit about merging mages or Templars with Inquisition is an Interview by NerdAlert (I think) with Cameron on You Tube, recorded a week ago.      Just type in Dragon Age Inquisition and there will be a whole long list of them but just go for the most recent ones if I am wrong about NerdAlert.

 

He definitely says you can resolve the dispute early on in the game, merge one or other group with your Inquisition and thereafter you get content exclusive to that decision.   Really surprised it can happen so early but it is near the beginning of the interview and quite unambiguous.   So the mage/Templar conflict is important to your organisation but not the grand scheme of things if it can be resolved so early.

 

Also definitely says that you are at a peace conference between the mages and Templars, so still puzzled where the Dalish fit into that.  

[Doominike]

Maybe it's picking a side early and the exclusive content revolves around resolving the conflict in your chosen side's favor

[Gervaise]

Yes, that is probably so, but it is not the main driving force  behind the story.   Essentially you are trying to bring back order from chaos.   All over the place there are conflicts breaking out between different factions and organisations.- which suggests that this is not coincidence but someone is driving it. (Blood magic mind control?) (Big bad demon controlling people?)    So the mage/Templar conflict is just one of many you have to sort out whilst trying to find out who is behind it overall.

[Doominike]

Everyone is in trouble so you can pick which factions you want to keep and which to make disappear basically.

[LobselVith8]

Not necessarily. I need only point to Merrill, who was certainly knowledgable about Eluvians, but little else.

Merrill knew how to identify different types of spirits and abominations, she handled magic adeptly for several years, she could identify if Keran was possessed, she cautioned the dangers of all spirits - I think you vastly underestimate her.

 
Firsts got an excuse not to know ****. Keepers don't.

Running an organization that will span two kingdoms should require the protagonist to have some proficiency as a leader. And I think you give the First too little credit.

 
You wouldn't get to play as Warden-Commander from the start either. It is a rather common thing in video games that you try to avoid starting players out in a posistion that logically should have a lot of knowledge and power, that the player has no way of knowing themselves.

Well, that could be the case for a non-Andrastian working with people who represent a foreign religion - one that they may be inclined to distrust (i.e. the Dalish).

[CapivaRasgor]

As for the PC being a Keeper, I doubt it will ever happen. Not because of it being Elvish, but rather because it would entail or imply being a subject matter expert. And PC's are never subject matter experts as far as the narrative is concerned.

 

Part of this is remembering who the PC is, and who it is played by. Every PC needs to be written to be compatible for someone whose first game is the current one. They can't be assumed to know about in-depth lore even if you think they really should- but when a subject matter expert doesn't know their own subject matter, there's a bit of an obstacle in that. It's easier to write around a Dalish who might have spent more time hunting than learning about halla, but harder when the Dalish in question is supposed to be the master of the lore. Unless, of course, you start throwing in forgetfullness tropes like amnesia... at which part the PC isn't actually a subject matter expert. At which point, there's not much added from going past the non-SME stage for the PC. Lore SME's are going to come from NPCs regardless.

 

The other part is that even if you are a SME, in RPGs (and especially Bioware games) this pretty much never means actually talking or having the options to show being a SME. It is almost always a case of claiming, rather than demonstrating, and even moreso the more divergent the potential PC types. In ME, there was only one meaningful career for Shepard, professional special forces soldier, and yet there was no real SME demonstrated. The 'military' themed or related dialogue was, well, haphazard and superficial at best and laughable at worst. In DAO, even less- not that it helped that you were ablibbing 'how to be a Grey Warden.'

 

In other words, being identified as a Keeper wouldn't actually mean that the player would be able to talk like a Keeper. For someone who wants to be a Keeper because they'd like to debate the finer nuances of elven history, religious mythology, or learn more about various Dalish philosophies... it almost certainly wouldn't happen. Or at least, no more than a non-Keeper player, who would generally be able to access the same sorts of dialogue and thus remove any competitive advantage.

 

If your ambition for playing as a Keeper is to learn more about the Dalish than you would otherwise, you'd be setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

I didn't really see it through this angle. But wouldn't this take the chance of being a First out the equation as well? I mean, a Keeper's apprentice is usually mentored from a very young age, they would be near the status of a SME, or at least more knowlegeable on elven lore than a player who's new to the series. Unless they say that the Dalish Mage Inquisitor is a fresh Circle runaway - like Aneirin in DA: O - I don't see a way of giving the Elf Mage a Dalish background that doesn't involves them being either the Keeper or the First.

[Dean_the_Young]

I didn't really see it through this angle. But wouldn't this take the chance of being a First out the equation as well? I mean, a Keeper's apprentice is usually mentored from a very young age, they would be near the status of a SME, or at least more knowlegeable on elven lore than a player who's new to the series. Unless they say that the Dalish Mage Inquisitor is a fresh Circle runaway - like Aneirin in DA: O - I don't see a way of giving the Elf Mage a Dalish background that doesn't involves them being either the Keeper or the First.

 

Since a First is (or can be) a Keeper in Training, it's not necessarily the same as already being a SME. You just might not be a particularly impressive Dalish First if you have to ask about mythology.

 

You still wouldn't get any unique chances for in-depth philosophy or religion or politics, of course... but I can't think of a Bioware protagonist who was able to engage in that level of detail on any subject. Bioware dialogues and 'debates' are pretty to the point.

 

'You're bad because of what you've done!'

'No, you're bad because of what you've done!'

'Won't you both put aside your history for the matter at hand?'

[Doominike]

In DA:O you could tell companions (notably Alistair and Leliana iirc) details about Dalish culture that you might not know as a player. Such as how they treat their dead (bury them and plant a tree over them) and that attacking people who get close to them is mostly BS (it's usually discouraged by Keepers because it brings attention to the clan, furthers bad rep and forces them to move early). You can also deride the maker when speaking to the chantry woman at Ostagar even though the player might not know about the bit of Dalish history being referenced in that line of dialogue

[ISpeakTheTruth]

By default an elven mage would have to be either a Keeper or a Keeper's first.

 

It was clearly stated that if an elven community has both a Keeper and a first then hey will locate another group that only has one mage and give that child to them.

 

[Doominike]

This ^ pretty much, the only way to not be a Keeper or a First is to be a candidate for First, which the PC would obviously be the best of and thus become a First anyway

[Lorien19]

A Dalish mage is either a keeper or the first(which in my opinion is more likely)...Although sometimes a clan can have more than two mages,a good example is Ellora who tends the halla in Zathrian's clan.Although I'd assume it will be safer for a clan to have as few mages as possible,for obvious reasons.

What I'm really curious about though is whether we'll get similar abilities to Velanna's(since Merril's combines both blood and Dalish magic),Dalish are known to practise some sort of "nature magic",so I'd like to see a mage pc having abilities that fit his/her background.

[CapivaRasgor]

You still wouldn't get any unique chances for in-depth philosophy or religion or politics, of course... but I can't think of a Bioware protagonist who was able to engage in that level of detail on any subject. Bioware dialogues and 'debates' are pretty to the point.

 

'You're bad because of what you've done!'

'No, you're bad because of what you've done!'

'Won't you both put aside your history for the matter at hand?'

 

And that's something I'm hoping that will change, if not in this game than in eventual sequels.. they've managed to create a very interesting universe. Though I think it's unlikely.

[Urazz]

Nah, I don't think they want the PC to be a keeper.  Mainly due to the fact that Keepers tend to be wise, knowledgeable, and fairly powerful.  Being a First or another type of mage in the Dalish is likely.  Something that can have some experience and power but not too much.

[MisterJB]

I've missed that piece of information. Nice! Not that it was surprising, given the Mage-Templar conflict, but it's good news nonetheless. What interview is it?

 

Around minute 1:48

[Dean_the_Young]

And that's something I'm hoping that will change, if not in this game than in eventual sequels.. they've managed to create a very interesting universe. Though I think it's unlikely.

Very. Not least because you can't program a convincing in-depth argument that can be repeated. The NPC can never change, adjust, or add to their arguments to counter yours, while you have plenty of time to think on rebuttals and counters to attack their arguments.

 

And that's without factoring in how most people suck at arguments in the first place.

[Doominike]

Being a Halla caretaker is kind of a lame background though

[LobselVith8]

Being a Halla caretaker is kind of a lame background though

 

It's a respected position, however. The halla are sacred to the Dalish; they lead the clans, and the halla are said to guide the dead into the afterlife. Felassan remarked, "We rode the halla. They leapt with such grace and beauty as to make your horses look like Ferelden dogs by comparison. They were smarter, too. Which often made them willful." It might reflect the behavior of the Red Hart Halla. And we have a mage like Aneirin the Healer, who was rescued after the templars tried to kill him as a boy, was given clothes and food, was taught ancient magic, and was allowed to follow the clan and keep to himself because he liked to be by himself, among nature.

[Doominike]

Respected and culturally important yes but as background for a war leader it's not so good. Though the badassery dissonance is potentially funny

 

"Whoah ! What did you do in your clan ?"

 

"I was the vet"

[Magister Caedus]

 

*interview snip*

lol at the end of that interview. "Andraste's... face!" 

[Mistic]

 

Around minute 1:48

 

Thank you!

 

So it's true, you can get them early. I'm beginning to think that it may be a bit like Origins: "hey, here are the conflicts. Every time you win, you get another piece for your army. The order is your choice".

 

Respected and culturally important yes but as background for a war leader it's not so good. Though the badassery dissonance is potentially funny

 

"Whoah ! What did you do in your clan ?"

 

"I was the vet"

 

I want that option. Sarcastic Hawke would approve

[HydroFlame20]

Mark my words if there is a chance my elf Inquisitor can bring the Dalish to full power I will burn a path towards it they have suffered for far to long.