384 réponses à ce sujet

[xyzmkrysvr]

Chivalier as companion in Inquisitor party does not make any sense

 

1)they are just a ordinary guards/servants of Orlais nobles and royal dynasty who are inherit them as bards

 

2)they are useless against deamons, monsters and templars, mages

 

3)they are one of the worst Thedas warriors and even GW mostly do not recruit them as with Orlais Templars

 

 

That's just silly. I could easily come up with similar lists for why, say, Sera or Varric or the Iron Bull have no place in the Inquisition, either. Chevaliers come from Orlais, which is ground zero for the Breach and the fade rips and demons pouring out... obviously they would want to protect their homes/families/country. They have more of a right to join up with the Inquisition than a lot of companions, actually. And why do you say they're useless against demons, monsters, templars and mages??  

 

 

Really hope Blackwall is Orlesian and maybe was once Chevalier. Agreed with you here on the disappointment, though. 

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Blackwall was a former Chevalier... apparently it's highly likely that he is Orlesian (based off a codex entry from an Orlesian Warden-Constable named "Blackwall" from DA:O. I just think having a chevalier backstory would be so much more interesting than having yet another Grey Warden companion. 

[Han Shot First]

I think it would be interesting if Blackwall turned out to be both Orlesian and a Chevalier, but it should be noted that just because he was a Grey Warden in Orlais doesn't necessarily mean that it was his place of birth. The Wardens are a multinational organization and Blackwall could have originated from any corner of Thedas.

[The Baconer]

Chevaliers come from Orlais, which is ground zero for the Breach and the fade rips and demons pouring out... obviously they would want to protect their homes/families/country.

 

You would think. I'll be sure to ask them why they're partying down at Halamshiral instead.

[xyzmkrysvr]

I think it would be interesting if Blackwall turned out to be both Orlesian and a Chevalier, but it should be noted that just because he was a Grey Warden in Orlais doesn't necessarily mean that it was his place of birth. The Wardens are a multinational organization and Blackwall could have originated from any corner of Thedas.

 

Good point... Blackwall isn't a very Orlesian sounding name, either... :\ But I was really looking forward to having a male companion with an Orlesian (*cough French cough*) accent. Riordan had one of the sexiest voices... *wistful sigh*

[wcholcombe]

Chivalier as companion in Inquisitor party does not make any sense

 

1)they are just a ordinary guards/servants of Orlais nobles and royal dynasty who are inherit them as bards

They are actually nobles.  They are Thedas' equivalent to Knights.  You have to be a noble in order to be a Chevalier.  Bards have nothing to do with Chevaliers.

2)they are useless against deamons, monsters and templars, mages

 

---Not true, they train to fight demons, know techniques to resist magic, and train in the methods of the grain wardens for combating darkspawn.

 

3)they are one of the worst Thedas warriors and even GW mostly do not recruit them as with Orlais Templars

They are roundly recognized as the greatest trained warriors in all of Thedas.  I have seen nothing to suggest they don't recruit Chevaliers to be GW.

 

http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Chevalier

[wcholcombe]

All this conversation aside, I think the main reason we don't have a chevalier is due to the fact that in Dorian we already have our "I break the mold don't stereotype me" character.

 

If we have a bunch of break the mold characters it starts to get a little silly.

[xyzmkrysvr]

They are actually nobles.  They are Thedas' equivalent to Knights.  You have to be a noble in order to be a Chevalier.  Bards have nothing to do with Chevaliers.

They are roundly recognized as the greatest trained warriors in all of Thedas.  I have seen nothing to suggest they don't recruit Chevaliers to be GW.

 

http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Chevalier

 

Thank you! You did a much better job of deconstructing the logical fallacies of that "chevaliers have no right to be in the Inquisition!" argument than I did  

 

All this conversation aside, I think the main reason we don't have a chevalier is due to the fact that in Dorian we already have our "I break the mold don't stereotype me" character.

 

If we have a bunch of break the mold characters it starts to get a little silly.

 

You're probably 100% right... that's why I think it would have been interesting to have an unapologetic chevalier companion. Maybe someone that most of us would initially hate, but a character that would grow on you as you got to know him/her. What companion fills that role in DA:I?? :\ 

[Mistic]

I agree by and large- however by and large most countries in Thedas to our knowlege have no issue with human soldiers or nobility killing elves.  I agree that slavery isn't accepted, but I can't say that the Chevaliers are roundly disliked throughout thedas. As I said you have to remember in DAO we go the Pro Ferelden-everything about orlais is evil and horrible perspective.  As I said, I fully expect to be presented with perspective in DAI from the Orlesian side that fully conflict with what was presented in DAO. We have already seen this in Masked Empire. In DAO they made it sound like the alienages in Ferelden were much better then the ones in Orlais.  In Masked Empire, the elves in Halamshiral specifically mention that they had heard about elves having to live in walled off alienages in Ferelden and possibly in parts of Orlais, while the alienage in Val Royeaux is presented more as a slum but no mention of walls or made, the elves aren't all treated as slaves, and contrary to what is said in DAO, from the presentation in Masked Empire there is plenty of sunlight reaching the ground throughout the alienage area.

 

Perspectives and reports vary. I fully would expect Ferelden's to paint Orlais as the epicenter of all evil in the world with their recent histories, but it will be interesting to see how this conflicts with the orlais perspective in DAI.

 

Well, that is true. But as you say, we already have the Orlesian perspective in The Masked Empire, and truth be told, the chevaliers sound exactly as nasty as the Fereldans and that Orlesian girl in the market said they were. Since even the best ones have to go through a ritual assassination that takes advantage of their privileges, I can definitely see the other things happening with the rotten ones.

 

So far, I haven't seen anything in TME that contradicts the information we had about Orlais in DA:O. Some things not being mentioned (such as the walls in the alienage of Val Royeaux or elven "slaves by another name" serving nobles) doesn't mean they don't exist; just that they aren't mentioned.

 

I no doubt that Orlais have many good things and with Celene we have seen some of them. But those good things don't mean that the bad things don't exist. The same that Fereldan nobles can be pretty down to earth and even commoners are free to go wherever they please, but the guards still didn't do anything when the Arl's son went to the alienage to kidnap and rape poor elven women.

[wcholcombe]

Well, that is true. But as you say, we already have the Orlesian perspective in The Masked Empire, and truth be told, the chevaliers sound exactly as nasty as the Fereldans and that Orlesian girl in the market said they were. Since even the best ones have to go through a ritual assassination that takes advantage of their privileges, I can definitely see the other things happening with the rotten ones.

 

So far, I haven't seen anything in TME that contradicts the information we had about Orlais in DA:O. Some things not being mentioned (such as the walls in the alienage of Val Royeaux or elven "slaves by another name" serving nobles) doesn't mean they don't exist; just that they aren't mentioned.

 

I no doubt that Orlais have many good things and with Celene we have seen some of them. But those good things don't mean that the bad things don't exist. The same that Fereldan nobles can be pretty down to earth and even commoners are free to go wherever they please, but the guards still didn't do anything when the Arl's son went to the alienage to kidnap and rape poor elven women.

In DAO they said the elves in Val Royeau were crammed into a tiny alienage with walls so high that sunlight barely reached the ground. The alienage that was presented in TME sounded nothing like that.  Also in DAO you get the impression that Chevaliers do nothing but ride around killing and raping, which the only 2 we have spend anytime around both did their initiation, neither went around indescreminantly killing and raping.  I fully expect the idea of exageration about your enemies to come into play and we will learn that Orlais is better then portrayed in DAO and to hear some rather unpleasant stories about life in Ferelden.  Its only natural.

[SnakeCode]

In DAO they said the elves in Val Royeau were crammed into a tiny alienage with walls so high that sunlight barely reached the ground. The alienage that was presented in TME sounded nothing like that.  Also in DAO you get the impression that Chevaliers do nothing but ride around killing and raping, which the only 2 we have spend anytime around both did their initiation, neither went around indescreminantly killing and raping.  I fully expect the idea of exageration about your enemies to come into play and we will learn that Orlais is better then portrayed in DAO and to hear some rather unpleasant stories about life in Ferelden.  Its only natural.

Yeah, it's something people don't think about, but i'm willing to bet that Orlais is a whole lot different from Orlais, as told by Fereldans. 

[Maria Caliban]

In DAO they said the elves in Val Royeau were crammed into a tiny alienage with walls so high that sunlight barely reached the ground. The alienage that was presented in TME sounded nothing like that.  Also in DAO you get the impression that Chevaliers do nothing but ride around killing and raping, which the only 2 we have spend anytime around both did their initiation, neither went around indescreminantly killing and raping.  I fully expect the idea of exageration about your enemies to come into play and we will learn that Orlais is better then portrayed in DAO and to hear some rather unpleasant stories about life in Ferelden.  Its only natural.

Yes. The person saying that the elves are all crammed together was telling 'us' that we shouldn't hope for a better life or cause trouble because at least 'we' have it better than those poor elves in Val Royeau.

Hardly impartial.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Yeah, it's something people don't think about, but i'm willing to bet that Orlais is a whole lot different from Orlais, as told by Fereldans. 

This is not told by fereldens in fact we have more opinions from peoples that are orlesians...

[Han Shot First]

They are actually nobles.  They are Thedas' equivalent to Knights.  You have to be a noble in order to be a Chevalier.  Bards have nothing to do with Chevaliers.

They are roundly recognized as the greatest trained warriors in all of Thedas.  I have seen nothing to suggest they don't recruit Chevaliers to be GW.

 

http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Chevalier

 

Agreed. Chevaliers are one of the most feared and respected organizations of trained warriors in Thedas. That alone would make them attractive recruits for the Grey Wardens. The Wardens don't care at all about morality. They are purely pragmatic and care only for a potential recruit's ability to kill darkspawn.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Agreed. Chevaliers are one of the most feared and respected organizations of trained warriors in Thedas. That alone would make them attractive recruits for the Grey Wardens. The Wardens don't care at all about morality. They are purely pragmatic and care only for a potential recruit's ability to kill darkspawn.

Well crows are most feared assassins but well their reputation don't live up to reality.Even grey wardens who are painted as best of the best are shown occasionally they aren't that good as they are painted.

[Dean_the_Young]

Agreed. Chevaliers are one of the most feared and respected organizations of trained warriors in Thedas. That alone would make them attractive recruits for the Grey Wardens. The Wardens don't care at all about morality. They are purely pragmatic and care only for a potential recruit's ability to kill darkspawn.

 

The wiki has an article on the Chevaliers that appears pretty well sourced. Their training regimen is, in a word, hard core.

[Han Shot First]

Well crows are most feared assassins but well their reputation don't live up to reality.Even grey wardens who are painted as best of the best are shown occasionally they aren't that good as they are painted.

 

Assassins aren't warriors. Their job is to kill someone from the shadows, when that person least expects it. If an assassin finds himself fighting in a pitched battle, the plan has drastically gone off the rails.

 

As for the Grey Wardens, where do they fail to live up to reputation?

[Dean_the_Young]

Assassins aren't warriors. Their job is to kill someone from the shadows, when that person least expects it. If an assassin finds himself fighting in a pitched battle, the plan has drastically gone off the rails.

 

As for the Grey Wardens, where do they fail to live up to reputation?

 

Well, they lost didn't they? And the Inquisitor is going to take their keep like a Ferelden dog. [/trolling]

[Solas]

Haha well that's not surprising considering you're so pro-elf but that's kind of my point: Bioware is renowned for creating complex companions that are constantly surprising us. I NEVER thought I would like Sten as much as I did when I first met him (or Shale, for the matter) but because Bioware has such amazing writers, they were able to totally change my mind. The best characters are often the ones that have a huge loyal fan base and a huge group of haters (see Alistair, Anders)... The chevaliers just seem like the perfect group to feature a companion from, seeing as the game takes place in Orlais and the chevaliers are all about protecting Orlais.  

xD

This is true. Sometimes the best chars are polarizing ones, BW has expressed that sentiment a few times.

But yeah killing innocent elves while drunk for some kind of hazing ritual... no. > :[

[Maria Caliban]

An assassin is someone who kills another in a surprise attack. They can do it 'from the shadows' but they could also just slaughter their way through someone's body guards and murder the target.

While games usually make assassins rogues, you could just as easily have a warrior one.

[Dean_the_Young]

Clearly that person would just be a brutish murderer. Assassin's are professionals, after all.

 

Though, more seriously, I'm thinking of military strike teams in occupational/counter-insurgency settings. The soldiers who show up, kick down doors, and take down the target in an outright methodical way.

 

Or, in the more Dragon Age appropriate context from the Witcher...

 

[Maria Caliban]

I've played the Witcher 2 twice and don't recall that scene. How odd.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Assassins aren't warriors. Their job is to kill someone from the shadows, when that person least expects it. If an assassin finds himself fighting in a pitched battle, the plan has drastically gone off the rails.

 

As for the Grey Wardens, where do they fail to live up to reputation?

Well most of crows plans fail so well you can call them as you wish but we know they don't live to their reputation besides i don't need mention zevran story about attack on prince. 

 

Well they got destroyed in ostagar , in the beginning of dragon age awakening and now seems that inquisition didn't had problem with destroying them in combat.

[Dean_the_Young]

I've played the Witcher 2 twice and don't recall that scene. How odd.

I think you had to get the extended edition. It's an epilogue scene, iirc.

[Han Shot First]

Well most of crows plans fail so well you can call them as you wish but we know they don't live to their reputation besides i don't need mention zevran story about attack on prince. 

 

Well they got destroyed in ostagar , in the beginning of dragon age awakening and now seems that inquisition didn't had problem with destroying them in combat.

 

There was less than 100 Wardens in all of Ferelden. At Ostagar they represented no more than a tiny detachment in a battle of thousands. Short of getting a lucky shot at the archdemon they were not going to have any impact on the outcome of the battle either way. And in any case, their destruction was entirely rooted in Loghain's betrayal, not in any lack of fighting prowess on the part of the Wardens. They were swarmed by hordes of darkspawn when Loghain took the rest of the army and abandoned the portion Cailan had led in an assault. (including the Wardens)

 

In Awakening you are also only dealing with a tiny detachment of Wardens. It was about a dozen if I remember correctly, hardly enough to have held the Vigil alone against hordes of darkspawn coming from within thanks to tunnels leading to the Deep Roads. And they were attacked on the very day they were handed control of the Keep, which means they did not yet have time to inspect it or fortify it. (as the player's Warden-Commander later does) 

 

With DA:I we don't yet know the circumstances yet, so its a bit too soon to draw any conclusions from that.

 

Also keep in mind that some of the most feared warriors in our own history have lost battles, even at the apex of their power. The Romans lost battles. So did the Spartans. Name any great power from history and that power has lost the occasional battle, campaign, or war. Two notable examples:

 

Battle of the Fetters

 

Battle of Cannae

 

That the Grey Wardens aren't undefeated doesn't necessarily diminish their reputation for martial prowess.

[caradoc2000]

The question is: if we had a chevalier companion, which of the known warriors would you ditch?