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Touchy subject: a critique regarding sexuality in this game, character design and privilege: The Cisquisition?


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#101
TurretSyndrome

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I suppose the importance placed on looks could be seen as insulting to all women. Also some women may share features with some of these characters. I brought this up before when someone on this forum complained about the comments about Cass's jaw because she also has a Jaw like that. 

 

Well it shouldn't be. If I like fashion model types, I like them, that's it. Just because I don't like the look of others doesn't mean I'm insulting them, neither do I have any reason to explain myself why I like them. Who are these women to judge how much importance I place on what looks? If I think some character is ugly in the game because of how her jaw looks, or her scar or whatever, I'm still commenting on her looks, not anyone else. No reason for real women to take offense. For example, my nose is a bit stubby, so let people call some videogame character stubby-nose. What do I care? People are becoming way too dramatic regarding these things. 


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#102
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Hey, OP...

f53ab0d5de44addd5969d8d8ca76505c.jpg
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#103
Guest_Caladin_*

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i like ma woman a tad plump should i feel offended start a topic about how im no catered to? WILL I GET SUPPORT :P



#104
Ailith Tycane

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Honestly I think it speaks much worse of the people trying to defend OP than OP himself, since that post was clearly trolling flame bait. The fact that there are people agreeing with him and trying to defend his points is actually depressing. 


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#105
LinksOcarina

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I am white, straight, and male.

 

Are you upset by this, bioware? Am I wrong for being white and straight and male?

 

No, of course not, I didn't ask to be born this way and to insult somebody for their race, gender and orientation is extremely bigoted.

 

I've noticed though that bioware is really trying to push the idea that non-white and bi or gay is the only way to play this game, and if one wants to play as a straight character their romance choices are extremely limited. In addition, there's a big emphasis on (dare I say) making the women in this game really quite unfeminine, if for no reason other than to appeal to ugly man-hating tumblr feminists. I'm talking breasts that sag impossibly low (Sera), a pig snout for a nose (Sera) and massive man jaws (Morrigan, Cassandra, Isabela). This is in comparison to Triss, Yennefer and Ciri from The Witcher 3. Women that *gasp* look like women. If bioware wants to make the women pretty ugly then please make the men also repulsive to look at. Thin arms and legs, massive pot bellies and greasy baby faces would be excellent.

 

It looks to me that bioware is trying to marginalize core gamers (men in their late teens and beyond) in favour of getting the support of the LGBT community and women, in regards to the character design and story. (actual gameplay looks really good though, looks like its moving towards a better version of DA2).

 

The statistic that 48% of gamers are female is extremely egregious at best. Only a tiny fraction of those females play anything that isn't extremely casual mobile games of which gender norms and sexuality etc do not apply (like flappy bird). 

 

In conclusion, bioware is trying way too hard to appease women, people of colour and LGBT representation in games by shoehorning it all in with absolutely no subtlety and actually harming other groups in the process. The forced nature of this is both incredibly annoying and detrimental to telling a good story and also in my opinion very unflattering to those people bioware is trying to win over. Someone being gay, bi or trans does not make them superior over a straight and non trans person. Please keep that in mind bioware. It feels as if bioware can't decide which audience they want to take seriously.

 

In addition, I also have to say that the grammar in the promo art for the characters is incorrect and awkward to read.

 

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Those sentences are not gramatically correct. Come on bioware you can do better than this. Or maybe not, the staff that worked on Baldur's Gate 2 are gone and you're now EA's b*tch.

 

So I got a warning for being calm about my stubborness and this moron has an open thread?

 

Let be debunk you quickly sir.

 

1) basing the looks of the women as being ugly is a subjective thing, not an objective fact. You don't like how they look, oh well. Tough.

 

2) The core group of gamers is no longer teenagers, in fact the median age for gamers now is closer to 30 years old, since most have been in the hobby since the late 80's. Women are probably not 49% of the audience, but they still make up a portion of it, one that you cannot ignore anymore. 

 

3) Inclusivity is perfectly fine, depending on how its done. I think people are making a big deal out of the sexuality of Sera and Dorian personally, but their sexuality is perfectly ok, much like it was in the past for Isabela, Zevran, Leliana, and countless others. As for race, well, last I checked BioWare has always been pretty fair to the representation of races in their games, so I am not sure why its a problem now. After all, was Isabela white? Or Jolee Bindo? Or Jacob Taylor? 

 

4) How is it forced, exactly? Can you please explain that? Also, is it any better or worse than say The Last of Us, which I would argue forced it upon Ellie as a character in the DLC for the game, or is that part of the problem too? 

 

In fact, don't answer that. Your wisdom on this subject is  not necessary at this point. 


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#106
aetheldod

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I dont know what people see but Vivienne is by no means attractive at all , she is ugly as hell. There are very atractive afro american/african (which is oviously what Bioware was going for) faces but Viv´ss its not one of them. Why they didnt include a better one , or another Rivanian like  Isabela ( and I mean natinolity not body proportions etc) which makes more sense in the lore? But whatever ... as long as I can dismmiss her I have no problems with the game , nor diversity for that matter



#107
Ailith Tycane

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1404055065483.jpg

 

1404055909955.jpg

 

 

WELP

 

Just in case there was any doubt about this being a troll thread, lol.


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#108
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Well it shouldn't be. If I like fashion model types, I like them, that's it. Just because I don't like the look of others doesn't mean I'm insulting them, neither do I have any reason to explain myself why I like them. Who are these women to judge how much importance I place on what looks? If I think some character is ugly in the game because of how her jaw looks, or her scar or whatever, I'm still commenting on her looks, not anyone else. No reason for real women to take offense. For example, my nose is a bit stubby, so let people call some videogame character stubby-nose. What do I care? People are becoming way too dramatic regarding these things. 

 

Maybe, but is it really necessary to comment on the facial characteristics that you find "ugly" in a public forum? You wouldn't have to worry about how sensitive people are if you cared about their feelings enough to not just insult them off the cuff because the thought happened to float into your head.



#109
TheTurtle

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I'm telling you guys continuing this conversation is only going to result in well meaning people getting warning points.

 

7371%20-%20Abandon_thread%20Dean_Ambrose


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#110
Vapaa

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Honestly I think it speaks much worse of the people trying to defend OP than OP himself, since that post was clearly trolling flame bait. The fact that there are people agreeing with him and trying to defend his points is actually depressing. 

 

It is, actually. It was so obvious I went to see if it wasn't from the shithole of the gaming culture, and god damn was I right:

 

http://boards.4chan....purchase-faggot


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#111
Enigmatick

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WELP

 

Just in case there was any doubt about this being a troll thread, lol.

I don't like disregarding people based on where they hang out, but for ****'s sake at least re-host the images so when you link them somewhere else you don't lose them when the thread dies.



#112
byeshoe

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this stuffs hilarious xD poor guys having 'ugly' romances, LOL. the OP does'nt only think this...a loooot of guys outside of these forums and all over the internet also don't find the female characters attractive. (I personally don't care) really though, get to know the character who you're gonna romance on the inside, see their personality and if you like them for who they are romance! you guys are also forgetting the scribblygirl who will be a romance. IF vivienne is romanceable that's more choices for you

Also, what's with people calling Triss ugly or that she doesn't look like a real woman? as a woman myself, I've seen people who looked a lot like Triss except a million times more beautiful because of them wearing tons of make up. Triss resembles my ginger happy friend, and they both even have cute freckles. /: she may not be beautiful to some but triss is not ugly


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#113
Amy326

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I plan on romancing Sera not just because she's attractive(to me) but I think Cassandra is very attractive as well as Vivienne! I don't know where these people who are saying they're ugly are coming from! o.O it's mind boggling to me. I know that finding someone attractive is objective/subjective, just like art or music. But I'm just saying why don't you explain to the rest of us what makes them so unattractive so maybe we might understand? I've seen many people on here say they are ugly/unattractive and I have seen just as many people ask for reasons as to this Opinion, and aside from "man jaw" I haven't seen anything clarifying these opinions. Just curious and stating my Opinion.
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#114
Gwydden

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That's because you have been systematically brainwashed by pop culture. You assume women can only be one way.

Not that I want to defend the straight white chief, but in all honesty, this is more than a little condescending, inaccurate and somewhat offensive. People like what they like, and taste in partners is as arbitrary as taste in food.

Of course, not finding someone attractive doesn't give you a pass to insult them. It's just that beauty is ultimately subjective, something these guys can't seem to get.
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#115
Enigmatick

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-incredibly long post-

Why?



#116
Vyniea

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Lots of people getting their panties in a bunch over nothing in this thread. I especially like those who announce their reports, which is akin to plugging your ears and shouting in order to not hear what the other's opinion is.

 

Anyway, I won't say I completely agree with OP, but I don't really disagree with him either. It IS true that Bioware (or rather EA since it's them taking the big decisions, let's not kid ourselves here) is catering to a minority rather than a majority, there's nothing wrong with that of course, we need games for every demographics, but there are ways to go about it, and how Bioware is doing is it kinda wrong.

 

Not only are the gay characters super poorly written and in the case of Dorian, being gay seems to be a major part of his character when really, sexual orientation is secondary at best when it comes to a personality. In a way it feels more like a parody than anything, borderline insulting even.

 

My biggest problem is that the whole pushing LGBT stuff in their games is extremely reactionary and not out of good-faith at all. They're not doing this cause they want to actually make the medium move forward when it comes to these issues. They want to shield themselves from criticism (it's easy to claim people who hate your games are homophobes or bigots, you don't need to actually think of actual good arguments). It's appaling how most people are completely blind to this and gobble it up as if EAware was some kind of Paragon of LGBT rights when it's nothing more than a big marketing ploy, and people are falling for it, hard.

 

Oh also, the Witcher girls are modeled after real people, so yeah, they look like ACTUAL women. Bioware did it too with Miranda and that other girl modeled after Jessica Chobot, they just did a bad job about it.


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#117
slimgrin

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I dont know what people see but Vivienne is by no means attractive at all , she is ugly as hell. There are very atractive afro american/african (which is oviously what Bioware was going for) faces but Viv´ss its not one of them. Why they didnt include a better one , or another Rivanian like  Isabela ( and I mean natinolity not body proportions etc) which makes more sense in the lore? But whatever ... as long as I can dismmiss her I have no problems with the game , nor diversity for that matter

I think they came so close with her design but missed the mark. I get what they we're trying, a distinct ethnic African, but ..ehh. I guess her concept profile looks better than the in-game model. Dorian's the only handsome one in the game. :P



#118
Amy326

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Why?


Why not?
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#119
mikeymoonshine

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Well it shouldn't be. If I like fashion model types, I like them, that's it. Just because I don't like the look of others doesn't mean I'm insulting them, neither do I have any reason to explain myself why I like them. Who are these women to judge how much importance I place on what looks? If I think some character is ugly in the game because of how her jaw looks, or her scar or whatever, I'm still commenting on her looks, not anyone else. No reason for real women to take offense. For example, my nose is a bit stubby, so let people call some videogame character stubby-nose. What do I care? People are becoming way too dramatic regarding these things. 

 

No but you did say ugly, that's not the same as "I don't like/not my type". 



#120
PR_

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- incredible useless post -

 

 

Why?


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#121
Vapaa

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Not only are the gay characters super poorly written and in the case of Dorian, being gay seems to be a major part of his character when really, sexual orientation is secondary at best when it comes to a personality. In a way it feels more like a parody than anything, borderline insulting even.

 

I need your time machine, man.


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#122
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Locking down this thread. - BioWareMod01


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