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[GameBoyish]

As someone who enjoys social psychology and cultural anthropology, I must wonder what causes this? 

Straighty rights?

[Grieving Natashina]

As someone who enjoys social psychology and cultural anthropology, I must wonder what causes this? 

My guess it's primarily societal.  Even though we're coming along quite nicely with equality, there is certain behaviors that we fall back on that are a sign from another age.  It can be very difficult to overcome many years of thinking this way, and pushing past your own upbringing.  Plus, in one of the articles I read, boys can take up to 102% of classroom attention due to behavior.  I'm going to assume the extra 2% acting out in detention or summer school.

 

It seems like part of this stems from allowing "boys will be boys" and girls being encouraged to be "ladies."

 

Straighty rights?

Bwhahaha!  I love the DA team forever for that one!

 

 

*laugh* Okay, I just noticed that people have been calling me Foe. Makes that whole "GOOD LUCK SHORTENING MY NAME!" thing feel a little silly.

<hugs> No worries hun.

[Clockwork_Wings]

 

My guess it's primarily societal.  Even though we're coming along quite nicely with equality, there is certain behaviors that we fall back on that are a sign from another age.  It can be very difficult to overcome many years of thinking this way, and pushing past your own upbringing.  Plus, in one of the articles I read, boys can take up to 102% of classroom attention due to behavior.  I'm going to assume the extra 2% acting out in detention or summer school.

 

 

Bwhahaha!  I love the DA team forever for that one!

 

That's what I was wondering. 

 

To quote the great Professor Arturo, one can tell a lot about a society based on the toys it gives its children.  How many movies do we have where the male lead is told, "Don't do anything, don't act on this, ignore it and it'll go away," and his response is, "**** that!"?  And then he's right, and rewarded for it in the end.  Cracked had a fascinating article on how men are programed against women.  It was quite an eye-opener.

[Foelhe]

 

My guess it's primarily societal.  Even though we're coming along quite nicely with equality, there is certain behaviors that we fall back on that are a sign from another age.  It can be very difficult to overcome many years of thinking this way, and pushing past your own upbringing.  Plus, in one of the articles I read, boys can take up to 102% of classroom attention due to behavior.  I'm going to assume the extra 2% acting out in detention or summer school.

 

It seems like part of this stems from allowing "boys will be boys" and girls being encouraged to be "ladies."

 

Bwhahaha!  I love the DA team forever for that one!

 

 

<hugs> No worries hun.

 

 

 Oh I'm not worried! Just struck me as funny. I'm hard to embarrass.

 

But yeah, we watch people around us and pick up their behaviors without really noticing it, so that becomes "normal". And then when we see something that isn't "normal", we scramble to justify why it seems strange to us. And if our view of what's "normal" doesn't fit what's actually "normal", our justifications tend to not make much sense.

[Grieving Natashina]

@Clockwork I've read it.  

 

So we don't utterly derail the thread, if any of you guys want to talk about this kind of stuff, and how it affects "geek culture" at large, check this out:

 

http://forum.bioware...isitor/page-201

 

It's long, but it's a pretty good read from start to finish.  They are pretty welcoming and love discussing stuff like this.

[Clockwork_Wings]

 Oh I'm not worried! Just struck me as funny. I'm hard to embarrass.

 

But yeah, we watch people around us and pick up their behaviors without really noticing it, so that becomes "normal". And then when we see something that isn't "normal", we scramble to justify why it seems strange to us. And if our view of what's "normal" doesn't fit what's actually "normal", our justifications tend to not make much sense.

A lot of cultural norms stem from older, more practical beliefs.  Bad luck to walk under a ladder?  The person working on the ladder might drop tools on your head.  Shaking hands?  Checking the other party for concealed weapons.

 

Kinda curious about what superstitions Thedas has.  Morrigan mentions washing feet in winter gives cold in the head, and TVTropes speculates they burn their dead to keep the Redcliff from happening. 

[fiveforchaos]

Here you go:

 

Just curious, but I read though the article, and did it take into account that there might simply be more men at these meetings? So there would of course, be more men talking (the disproportionate gender ratio is also an issue, but not relevant to this study). I couldn't find any indicated that they did, but I skimmed a few parts. 

[Ynqve]

Not to mention you tend notice the "strange" more than the "normal", which can really mess up your perception. I think this may be one of the reasons why the boys and  teacher felt like the girls received more attention.

[Foelhe]

Not to mention you tend notice the "strange" more than the "normal", which can really mess up your perception. I think this may be one of the reasons why the boys and  teacher felt like the girls received more attention.

 

Pretty much. And it really doesn't help if you're certain you're fair, which a lot of people are. So, if the women talking stands out to you, but gosh, you couldn't possibly let the guys talk more most of the time, that's just not you... well, what conclusion are you going to reach?

[Grieving Natashina]

Just curious, but I read though the article, and did it take into account that there might simply be more men at these meetings? So there would of course, be more men talking (the disproportionate gender ratio is also an issue, but not relevant to this study). I couldn't find any indicated that they did, but I skimmed a few parts. 

I'd read the whole thing, honestly.  This was going by a 50/50 gender split.  Skimming it won't give you the full story, in this case.  I tried and I found I had to read the whole thing to get where they were coming from.

[TK514]

Straighty rights?

 

 

 

Bwhahaha!  I love the DA team forever for that one!

 

 

Not trying to bust your chops here, Nat, because you know I think you're one of the best the BSN has to offer, but I have to ask:

 

Why?

 

Why is this form of mockery ok and hilarious when used against one group, but not against another?

 

Sure, the subject it was directed at may have asked a question many of us would consider boneheaded and like to roll our eyes at, but is dismissive, or derisive, mockery really the right way to answer just because they were part of the perceived majority and not some 'protected minority' demographic?  It seems to me that by mocking them, the developers only reenforced the concern rather than even making an effort to alleviate it.

[Grieving Natashina]

 

 

Sure, the subject it was directed at may have asked a question many of us would consider boneheaded and like to roll our eyes at, but is dismissive, or derisive, mockery really the right way to answer just because they were part of the perceived majority and not some 'protected minority' demographic?  It seems to me that by mocking them, the developers only reenforced the concern rather than even making an effort to alleviate it.

See, because it isn't the majority I'm mocking, nor do I think it's the majority that BW was mocking either.  It isn't the majority of straight men that has been saying this stuff to BioWare.  This isn't even a decent size of the population.  

 

It's a very small group of very loud, uneducated folks spouting hatred in the name of "concern", which I make fun of regardless of anyone's social status.  I'm making fun of their stupidity.

 

 For example, I would never dare call a straight man that's respectful of others  "straighty" despite any majority status.  No, I'm mocking that teeny tiny sub-group of the majority, the ones that keep going on and on about "straightphobia" and all this other nonsense.  That's what I mean when I say "Straighty," and from what I read, that's what the dev was getting at too.  

 

Is it a poor choice of words?  Perhaps, but I can still laugh at the joke.  I honestly didn't mean to offend you and if I had, I won't use the term again.  

[Foelhe]

Not trying to bust your chops here, Nat, because you know I think you're one of the best the BSN has to offer, but I have to ask:

 

Why?

 

Why is this form of mockery ok and hilarious when used against one group, but not against another?

 

Sure, the subject it was directed at may have asked a question many of us would consider boneheaded and like to roll our eyes at, but is dismissive, or derisive, mockery really the right way to answer just because they were part of the perceived majority and not some 'protected minority' demographic?  It seems to me that by mocking them, the developers only reenforced the concern rather than even making an effort to alleviate it.

 

Because that's a false equivalency, and it only makes sense to you because you're not looking at things from a larger perspective.

 

I don't care if someone makes fun of me because I like Canadian bacon on my pizza. Why the hell would I? I don't care if someone makes fun of me because I know how to juggle. Why the hell would I? But I do care if someone makes fun of me for being gay, because people treat gay folks like crap all the time and it's lousy.

 

In our society being a straight guy is a lot closer to being a Canadian bacon lover than it is to being a lesbian. Whining when people make fun of you over it makes you look like a humorless prig.

 

Edit: I do agree that you shouldn't make fun of straight people (honestly, you shouldn't make fun of jugglers either) but it's not the same.

[Who Knows]

I think it's really fair game to criticize straight people who think they are being marginalized in DA:I. Seriously. I don't see any indication of this being true, so that comes across as complaining that straight people don't have special treatment and more options than gays like they always do.

[GameBoyish]

Just curious, but I read though the article, and did it take into account that there might simply be more men at these meetings? So there would of course, be more men talking (the disproportionate gender ratio is also an issue, but not relevant to this study). I couldn't find any indicated that they did, but I skimmed a few parts. 

I think culturally, males are used to getting attention and better treatment so whenever anything felt a little "less" for them, they feel like it's not "fair" to them.

I remember when research on Gender Gaps where it's shown that countries that allocate a quota for women, this one man from one of the countries with the smallest gender gaps complained that men are "losing jobs" because of this "unfairness".

 

Reality is that the more previously privileged party just needs to work a little harder in getting what they want instead of having everything served on a silver platter.

 

So how does this tie in with DA:I?

 

I have a feeling, especially since Gaider says that the LIs are not being handed out equivalently like candy to children, there is a chance that there are more options for female Inquisitors, no matter the orientation. The "straight white male" may get angry, that would be expected but that is not necessarily a good reason to please them.

[Slukers]

Okay, someone needs to draw this.  Dragging him out of a little pub somewhere.  

We have our theme for next week's prompt!

[Ynqve]

I think it's really fair game to criticize straight people who think they are being marginalized in DA:I. Seriously. I don't see any indication of this being true, so that comes across as complaining that straight people don't have special treatment and more options than gays like they always do.

 

This. As long as you don't make blanket statements where you criticize all straight people for acting bigoted, it's fair game. 

[GameBoyish]

Here's the Global Gender Gap thingy I was talking about.

http://www.buzzfeed....s-to-be-a-woman

[Gannayev of Dreams]

I think it's really fair game to criticize straight people who think they are being marginalized in DA:I. Seriously. I don't see any indication of this being true, so that comes across as complaining that straight people don't have special treatment and more options than gays like they always do.

 

That would seem rather juvenile, if you simply criticize they'll only grow defensive and feel more justified on their position of being the grieved party.  Messages of equality and inclusion should be self-evident, your best bet is to point out the error in the reasoning and hope that the truth stands on its own merits.

[Foelhe]

That would seem rather juvenile, if you simply criticize they'll only grow defensive and feel more justified on their position of being the grieved party.  Messages of equality and inclusion should be self-evident, your best bet is to point out the error in the reasoning and hope that the truth stands on its own merits.

 

I'm kind of okay with trolls sucking it up, frankly.

 

We're not talking about typical, rational people, we're talking about people throwing a fit because they're being "punished" by getting exactly the same thing everyone else is. I don't see any reason to think logic would work here.

[Gannayev of Dreams]

I'm kind of okay with trolls sucking it up, frankly.

 

We're not talking about typical, rational people, we're talking about people throwing a fit because they're being "punished" by getting exactly the same thing everyone else is. I don't see any reason to think logic would work here.

 

Trolls sucking it up?  That isn't how trolling works... You're right though, rationality doesn't usually work in that situation.  Which is precisely why "responding in kind", as it were, is the worst thing to do.  An exercise in futility, because at its best it only prelongs the absurdity.  It has been said before but I'll say it again here; there is only one way to kill a troll, you must starve it to death.  No exception.

[Foelhe]

Trolls sucking it up?  That isn't how trolling works... You're right though, rationality doesn't usually work in that situation.  Which is precisely why "responding in kind", as it were, is the worst thing to do.  An exercise in futility, because at its best it only prelongs the absurdity.  It has been said before but I'll say it again here; there is only one way to kill a troll, you must starve it to death.  No exception.

 

*shrug* I've seen jerks get shamed out of the room before, so I disagree.

[GameBoyish]

Anyway, we're all going kinda off-topic now. 

 

Let's all agree to disagree shall we?

[Grieving Natashina]

Yeah, let's move away from that.  Didn't know it would cause problems, and I'm sorry if I offended anyone!

 

Quick, someone throw up a pic of Varric in nothing but a sheet.  That always cheers us up.

[Ynqve]

Trolls sucking it up?  That isn't how trolling works... You're right though, rationality doesn't usually work in that situation.  Which is precisely why "responding in kind", as it were, is the worst thing to do.  An exercise in futility, because at its best it only prelongs the absurdity.  It has been said before but I'll say it again here; there is only one way to kill a troll, you must starve it to death.  No exception.

 

I would agree if it weren't for the fact that they're not all trolls. As much as I hate to admit it, some are legitimate. They are wrong, but they have a right to voice their opinion. I would rather take the debate and try to make them listen to reason because I believe that by ignoring them you affirm their belief that they are becoming pariahs in a world that would have treated them as kings ten years ago. 

 

However, that doesn't mean they should get away with saying insane bullshit. Just my two cents. 

 

Now, back to the subject of our favorite dwarf!