25007 réponses à ce sujet

[Chernaya]

I feel ashamed for not even really noticing it, now. 

[Yinello]

Oghren was definitely a stereotype and I can see why people don't like him. But he does have his excellent moments like when you bring him to the ghost guy guarding the Ashes and he has a really deep moment about his (in my playthrough dead) wife.

 

I think Oghren had loads of potential to still be that stereotype and yet break out of it. But the sympathetic moments get drowned out for (bad) comic relief and yeah. Kinda sucks.

 

I like him though. I like to pretend the bad jokes are just a shell for someone who is just truly sad inside.

[Grieving Natashina]

I feel ashamed for not even really noticing it, now. 

Don't feel bad.  <hugs>

[Who Knows]

At least almost ALL of the banter Oghren has with female characters revolve around him creeping on them sexually. It's seriously gross, and there's no need for a such a character in an otherwise non-sexist universe (with only some exceptions).

[Grieving Natashina]

At least almost ALL of the banter Oghren has with female characters revolve around him creeping on them sexually. It's seriously gross, and there's no need for a such a character in an otherwise non-sexist universe (with only some exceptions).

Agreed.  And you need to get yourself an avatar, by the way.  

[TheodoricFriede]

Those are just two things I found with ctrl+f . I'm sure there's more.

He's sexist.

 

He also has a habit ending with his sentences when talking to a woman with "woman."

(the quotes are with different female characters)

I, uh, dont really see that as sexist.

 

I think theres a difference between being crass and being sexist.

 

Sexist is saying "Women are less then men" not saying the word "woman" im much the same way i will say "man". "Good lord man!"

[TheodoricFriede]

 

I like him though. I like to pretend the bad jokes are just a shell for someone who is just truly sad inside.

I dont think you need to pretend.

 

Im pretty sure thats intentional. Oghrin is a very very sad and lonely individual.

[Grieving Natashina]

That's doesn't excuse a lot of the things Oghren says to all of the female characters, including the Warden.  As far as being a sad and lonely person,  I'd argue the same about Anders, but he wasn't constantly a creeper about it.   He never talked down to them because they were a female even when he could have (see: Isabela at the clinic.)  Merrill was an exception, but that was about her blood magic and not her gender.

 

And no, one unsolicited flirt doesn't make Anders creepy imho, just a lonely and clingy guy.

[TheodoricFriede]

   He never talked down to them because they were a female even when he could have

When did Oghren ever "talk down" to any woman? And if he did, was it any more then he would talk down to any men?

 

Further, i dont think being a crass, crude, pervert is the same thing as sexism.

 

And if it is, id like to know your opinions of Isabella.

[Feybrad]

At least almost ALL of the banter Oghren has with female characters revolve around him creeping on them sexually. It's seriously gross, and there's no need for a such a character in an otherwise non-sexist universe (with only some exceptions).

 

I always think Oghren is a matter of Voice Acting. I've played the Game in both English and German and recruited him both Times very early. The English Voice Actor does a fantastic Job making Oghren sound the creepy perverted Part. However, the German Voice Actor does not convey the same Sense of Perversion and makes Oghren sound much more balanced and actually quite funny. I found that Difference really interesting, since the Things he said were essentially the same. This Difference actually convinced me that german Localisation is worth it.

[Blue Gloves]

Hi thread!!! *waves*  I know it's only been, like, 24 hrs, but I feel like I haven't seen guys in ages

 

 

I dont think you need to pretend.

 

Im pretty sure thats intentional. Oghrin is a very very sad and lonely individual.

 

I agree.  As I've said before, I like Oghren in DAO (much less of a fan in DAA- I was like "Uhhhh, excuse me, but where did all your character growth go?  Weren't we just talking about 'becoming the warrior [the Warden] reminded you that you could be'?") His drinking to cover up pain, his dedication to fighting and fellows-in-arms but lack of understanding and willingness to peruse deeper emotional issues, and his crude humor all rang true for me as an army vet who has spent a couple years in warzones, field training, and deployment situations.  I can understand why he's not others' cup of tea, but I always rather liked that the DA team took the time to flesh out the reasons behind his more stereotypical 'dwafish' traits.  ie- he drinks to forget his bloodlust while in battle and his disappointment in himself and his marriage etc

[SilkieBantam]

That's doesn't excuse a lot of the things Oghren says to all of the female characters, including the Warden.  As far as being a sad and lonely person,  I'd argue the same about Anders, but he wasn't constantly a creeper about it.   He never talked down to them because they were a female even when he could have (see: Isabela at the clinic.)  Merrill was an exception, but that was about her blood magic and not her gender.

 

And no, one unsolicited flirt doesn't make Anders creepy imho, just a lonely and clingy guy.

I agree with Yinello on Ohgren (also that's a gorgeous Brosca in your icon). He's not my favorite DA character but he does have his moments. Maybe I'm a bit softer on him because I'm crazy about Steve Blum too. 

 

Anyway Is Ohgren a creeper? I dunno I thought a lot of his actions were bluster, I pitied Oghren more than anything else and was happy at the end of Origins to see him working towards bettering himself. I do like his line "I consider it an honor to die for your cause Warden". But even if a character was creepy or sexist that wouldn't necessarily stop me from liking them as a character.  If my icon hasn't given it away, some of my favorite characters in fiction have been absolutely horrible and disgusting people. 

 

To me, the worst thing a character can be is forgettable. Love or hate Oghren, he's still got people talking about him so he got a reaction out of people. He made people feel something which is more than I can say about some other characters.    

[TheodoricFriede]

 

 

I agree.  As I've said before, I like Oghren in DAO (much less of a fan in DAA- I was like "Uhhhh, excuse me, but where did all your character growth go?  Weren't we just talking about 'becoming the warrior [the Warden] reminded you that you could be'?")

Thats why he's one of my favorite characters. In Origins, once i figured Oghren out, i really genuinly felt sorry for him. I wanted to help him be a better person.
 And it was very cool to know i succeeded....

 

Aaaaand then Awakening.... I like Awakening, but that was a massive disappointment when it came to Oghren. They turned him from a tragic character to a walking talking fart joke.

[Blue Gloves]

Those are just two things I found with ctrl+f . I'm sure there's more.

He's sexist.

 

He also has a habit ending with his sentences when talking to a woman with "woman."

(the quotes are with different female characters)

 

Hmmm... I don't really find it it sexist when someone says "Woman, yada yada yada"  unless of course, its like "woman, make me a sammich!" or some such.  Just as I don't  find it sexist to say something like "Good God man, what are you thinking?!!?"  But that could be just me.  I did't find any of those quotes to be inherently sexist personally, and Oghren (in DAO) certainly never had a problem telling my female wardens that they "taught him to be a better warrior and helped him to become the kind of man who deserves love from Felsi" which tells me that he's every bit as willing to give respect to a woman as a man.  Also, he clearly respected his late wife/ ex-wife's intellect, and doesn't seem to be bothered by the fact that she was far and away his superior when it came to intelligence... just that she went crazy, left him, and fed their whole family to the darkspawn

[Grieving Natashina]

When did Oghren ever "talk down" to any woman? And if he did, was it any more then he would talk down to any men?

 

Further, i dont think being a crass, crude, pervert is the same thing as sexism.

 

And if it is, id like to know your opinions of Isabella.

How about asking Alistair as a romance, in front of the Warden, "So what do you do with the legs?" for starters.  Or how about all of the other examples Who listed? Or how about uses of the terms like "sissy-girl?" Did you notice any other companion that uses a gendered insult like that?  I'm wracking my brain and other than the Warden PC that says, "I'm the bravest one here and I'm a woman," I can't think of any other examples.

 

Here's some samples of how he tends to talk to other women in the party.  

 

Spoiler

Oghren: Aye, sure. Why not?

Wynne: Pardon?

Oghren: Oh, I'd give you a roll. Why not?

Wynne: A "roll?"

Oghren: Aye. Any time. Preferably in the dark.

Wynne: I suppose I should be flattered.

Oghren: I'm not sure I have the equipment for that, but sure, whatever gets you working.

 

 

───────

 

Oghren: Ugh. Got something in my...Sod it.

Wynne: What are you... Never mind, I don't want to know.

Oghren: That's right. Keep your nose up. You know, just because we don't all live in some tower in the clouds doesn't mean we're worthless.

Wynne: I didn't...

Oghren: And furthermore, I don't think I appreciate the way you looked at me the other night.

Wynne: The way I... what?

Oghren: Oh, you remember. Those longing eyes, hungry for a bit of a tussle...

Wynne: I never looked at you, dwarf. Definitely not in that way.

Oghren: Oh, you're right. Must have been the dog.

 

Oghren: You could show me a little appreciation, you know.

Wynne: Appreciation? For what?

Oghren: I saved your ass a while back! When that thing was... you don't even remember.

Wynne: I'm sorry, I--

Oghren: No, that's fine. Next time I'll just let it get you, that's all.

 

Oghren: So, you're not tossing yourself at the boss?

Wynne: Excuse me?

Oghren: It seems like every other woman in the band is tossing herself at the boss feet first. It's like a sodding noble's birthday party here.

Wynne: Oh, no. The Grey Warden is a little young for me. Both of them are.

Oghren: Need someone with a little more experience, I guess, right?

Wynne: I suppose.

Oghren: Well, you know where to find me.

 

 

Oghren: I swear. The things I could do to you.

Morrigan: Ugh. It is leering at me once again...

Oghren: Oh. Did I say that out loud?

 

 

Oghren: Hmmm. So you can turn into animals, aye? Like cats and wolves?

Morrigan: When the desire strikes me.

Oghren: Have you ever... you know. "When in Tevinter..."

Morrigan: That's a most curious little mind you have, dwarf. And what if I had? Would that thought comfort you during your lonely nights?

Oghren: Hmmm. Have you ever changed during--

Morrigan: Why are you suddenly asking me this?

Oghren: How do we know you're truly a woman? Or even human! You could be a chip mouse... or a nug! Ha! Imagine that!

Morrigan: Why, yes. I am actually a nug in human form. I have come to observe your kind.

Oghren: Huh. Nugs are good with extra sauce. I'm just saying.

 

───────

 

I'm betting I have a much more messed up sense of humor than you do, so don't go there please.

 

Isabela doesn't treat anyone differently due to gender, which by definition doesn't make her sexist.   She is also flirty, but doesn't pull the kind of stunts like Oghren does repeatedly.

 

I could keep going, but I think I made my point.  You don't think he's sexist, and I think he's the most sexist DA companion to date.  We can agree to disagree with that one.  

[SilkieBantam]

Inspired by us talking about an awkward/shy Varric during a romance, I attempted to sketch him (or any dwarf) for the first time, for the thread.  Just don't look at it too long or you'll notice it has a lot of mistakes, lol.

 

Spoiler

 

Oh my gosh is that cute or what?! I think I squeed a little when I saw that. Love it.

[TheodoricFriede]

 

Apologies, but i dont see a single sexist comment in any of your examples.

 

Once again i say. Being a pervert is not the same as being sexist.

 

Also, an Isabella line, "Men are only good for one thing. Women are good for six."

 

But yes. Let us end this.

[Blue Gloves]

But... back to Varric- I came across this the other day, and I have no idea what the context is- but it made me chuckle

 

by nineshadows on deviantart

 

[Chernaya]

Oh my gosh is that cute or what?! I think I squeed a little when I saw that. Love it.

 

Thanks, I'm glad you like it, haha. x3

 

...

 

...Is the debate over yet? *peeks out carefully* xD

[Grieving Natashina]

No worries, I'm done.

[TheodoricFriede]

Its over.

[Yinello]

Why is there a bear drinking?

[SilkieBantam]

Thanks, I'm glad you like it, haha. x3

 

...

 

...Is the debate over yet? *peeks out carefully* xD

It was a proper civilized debate though. Proof that this thread is awesome. 

Also awkward romantic Varric is becoming one of my favorite DA headcanons.

[Blue Gloves]

Why is there a bear drinking?

 

No earthly idea.  Just thought the chibi Varric was adorable and funny

[Grieving Natashina]

But... back to Varric- I came across this the other day, and I have no idea what the context is- but it made me chuckle

 

by nineshadows on deviantart

 

This needs to go into the OP.