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[AresKeith]

What I got from it is that they saw each other a handful of times over 15 years, which is a lot less than what I consider a secret relationship.

 

I mean secret as in the Carta not knowing about it

 

When I said "It's a sign," I was trying to gently say that it means the relationship shouldn't exist from the start. It's how extramarital affairs work- which this is. It's ridiculous that Varric allows himself to be trapped in such a horrible relationship. If you have to hide your relationship with someone, you should not be in a relationship with that person.

 

Normally I agree, but it's something that they most likely agreed to

[Chernaya]

That's another thing... she married this man and instead of cutting off her relationship with Varric she's pretty much cheating on her husband even though he's supposedly an okay guy. Not saying Varric isn't guilty in this either, but this whole thing seems kinda sad the whole way around for everyone involved.

[AresKeith]

That's another thing... she married this man and instead of cutting off her relationship with Varric she's pretty much cheating on her husband even though he's supposedly an okay guy. Not saying Varric isn't guilty in this either, but this whole thing seems kinda sad the whole way around for everyone involved.

 

He probably is a nice guy but it was an arranged marriage by her family

[Ynqve]

I don't know, she does invite him over to her place while her husband's in Nevarra. I think the implications of inviting the man who's madly in love with you to your house while your husband is in another country are pretty blatant.

 

Which makes the whole argument about how she's supposedly not together with him because she doesn't want to put him in harms way incredibly stupid. 

 

And I think that whole situation is bad. She's either cheating on her husband (who she seems to like) or she's stringing Varric along just to friendzone him. I guess her husband could be completely fine with her and Varric having an affair, in which case I would be ok with it. But if not then Bianca's being kind of selfish. 

[Chrys]

My point is that it's not even a proper affair. They're penpals who saw each other a handful of times over 15 years. That's just... so little. And he's the one sad about it. She seems to be pretty happy with what's going in her life.

[Former_Fiend]

Which makes the whole argument about how she's supposedly not together with him because she doesn't want to put him in harms way incredibly stupid. 

 

And I think that whole situation is bad. She's either cheating on her husband (who she seems to like) or she's stringing Varric along just to friendzone him. I guess her husband could be completely fine with her and Varric having an affair, in which case I would be ok with it. But if not then Bianca's being kind of selfish. 

 

I'm not entirely unsympathetic to the situation; she's in an arranged marriage that is being enforced by her parents via assassins. In another story she's be the disney princess locked up in a tower waiting for true love and all that.

 

So really, to me, the moral obligation she has is to not put Varric in mortal danger rather than not cheat on her husband. However much she may like the guy, she didn't get any say in being married to him, so it's not as if she's betraying some sort of trust there. 

 

Honestly the whole situation is stupidly convoluted. If Bianca is so invaluable to the merchant's guild she should be able to leverage that into marrying who she wants or at least being able to keep Varric on the side as a paramour. And failing that, once Varric joins up with the Inquisition, if they want to be together, the Inquisition should have more than enough clout to keep the guild from killing him; I refuse to believe that an organization that can have the Empire of Orlais in it's pocket can be out muscled by the merchant's guild and carta.

[Ynqve]

My point is that it's not even a proper affair. They're penpals who saw each other a handful of times over 15 years. That's just... so little. And he's the one sad about it. She seems to be pretty happy with what's going in her life.

 

Right! If you're going to have an affair, can't you at least make it a steamy one? If not, then what's the damn point? 

 

The whole thing is so frustrating!

[Yermogi]

Normally I agree, but it's something that they most likely agreed to

That doesn't mean it's GOOD. Extramarital affairs are pretty much always awful. Just because you agree to be a party in the affair doesn't make it okay. It's still really stupid, and highly selfish.

Bianca's husband is said to be a decent guy- he doesn't hurt or abuse her in any way, and seems to give her lots of freedom, nor has he ever hurt Varric in any way. It's WRONG for Bianca to cheat on him.

Varric is deeply in love with Bianca- or he's fooling himself into thinking he is. But he's got the short end of the stick here. He's basically a boy-toy for whenever Bianca wants him. Also- He shouldn't be involved with a married woman in the first place. He should have just left. It's WRONG for him to participate in this affair.

Now Bianca is the real idiot here. She's married to a presumably nice guy that she is cheating on with another man that's hopelessly in love with her that she just strings along. She is a bad person. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. Not to mention the fact that her stupid greed got Red Lyrium into the hands of CORYPHEUS, directly contributing to hundreds, if not thousands of deaths.

Basically Bianca is a sucky person, and Varric is a tool when it comes to her. Their relationship is one big dark hole going nowhere. Consensual or not, they shouldn't be together.

[AresKeith]

That doesn't mean it's GOOD. Extramarital affairs are pretty much always awful. Just because you agree to be a party in the affair doesn't make it okay. It's still really stupid, and highly selfish.

Bianca's husband is said to be a decent guy- he doesn't hurt or abuse her in any way, and seems to give her lots of freedom, nor has he ever hurt Varric in any way. It's WRONG for Bianca to cheat on him.

Varric is deeply in love with Bianca- or he's fooling himself into thinking he is. But he's got the short end of the stick here. He's basically a boy-toy for whenever Bianca wants him. Also- He shouldn't be involved with a married woman in the first place. He should have just left. It's WRONG for him to participate in this affair.

Now Bianca is the real idiot here. She's married to a presumably nice guy that she is cheating on with another man that's hopelessly in love with her that she just strings along. She is a bad person. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. Not to mention the fact that her stupid greed got Red Lyrium into the hands of CORYPHEUS, directly contributing to hundreds, if not thousands of deaths.

Basically Bianca is a sucky person, and Varric is a tool when it comes to her. Their relationship is one big dark hole going nowhere. Consensual or not, they shouldn't be together.

 

You're being unfair to Bianca who was also put in a situation she didn't want because husband (that she was pretty much forced to marry) is a nice guy, we see that Bianca also cares deeply for Varric the same way he cares for her

[Chrys]

The only explanation I have for her situation to be unsolvable is that she does not want to upset her family and lose her Guild position. She made a choice and Varric is letting her have her cake and eat it too.

[Former_Fiend]

That doesn't mean it's GOOD. Extramarital affairs are pretty much always awful. Just because you agree to be a party in the affair doesn't make it okay. It's still really stupid, and highly selfish.

Bianca's husband is said to be a decent guy- he doesn't hurt or abuse her in any way, and seems to give her lots of freedom, nor has he ever hurt Varric in any way. It's WRONG for Bianca to cheat on him.

Varric is deeply in love with Bianca- or he's fooling himself into thinking he is. But he's got the short end of the stick here. He's basically a boy-toy for whenever Bianca wants him. Also- He shouldn't be involved with a married woman in the first place. He should have just left. It's WRONG for him to participate in this affair.

Now Bianca is the real idiot here. She's married to a presumably nice guy that she is cheating on with another man that's hopelessly in love with her that she just strings along. She is a bad person. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. Not to mention the fact that her stupid greed got Red Lyrium into the hands of CORYPHEUS, directly contributing to hundreds, if not thousands of deaths.

Basically Bianca is a sucky person, and Varric is a tool when it comes to her. Their relationship is one big dark hole going nowhere. Consensual or not, they shouldn't be together.

 

 

No, it isn't. 

 

Decent guy or not, it's an arranged marriage. Bianca had no say or choice when it came to marrying this guy. Him being a decent guy is kind of luck of the draw, really. She's under no moral obligation - as far as I'm concerned - to stay faithful to a man who she didn't choose to be with, regardless of how he does or doesn't treat her. 

 

Which isn't to say I like Bianca, at all. But to me, arranged marriage is a step above sexual slavery. I don't begrudge anyone for not respecting vows they took without choice.

[Ynqve]

I'm not entirely unsympathetic to the situation; she's in an arranged marriage that is being enforced by her parents via assassins. In another story she's be the disney princess locked up in a tower waiting for true love and all that.

 

So really, to me, the moral obligation she has is to not put Varric in mortal danger rather than not cheat on her husband. However much she may like the guy, she didn't get any say in being married to him, so it's not as if she's betraying some sort of trust there. 

 

Honestly the whole situation is stupidly convoluted. If Bianca is so invaluable to the merchant's guild she should be able to leverage that into marrying who she wants or at least being able to keep Varric on the side as a paramour. And failing that, once Varric joins up with the Inquisition, if they want to be together, the Inquisition should have more than enough clout to keep the guild from killing him; I refuse to believe that an organization that can have the Empire of Orlais in it's pocket can be out muscled by the merchant's guild and carta.

 

Either way, the whole situation is stupid! Honestly, I wouldn't mind it if we had the option to let them be together openly or make them end it and move on. I can't see how anyone is gaining anything right now. If we're going with the idea that she's still in love with Varric, then she's unhappy because she's trapped in a marriage with one guy but she wants to be with someone else. Her husband is stuck with a wife who doesn't want him and Varric is stuck pining away after Bianca. Angst for everyone!

[AresKeith]

Either way, the whole situation is stupid! Honestly, I wouldn't mind it if we had the option to let them be together openly or make them end it and move on. I can't see how anyone is gaining anything right now. If we're going with the idea that she's still in love with Varric, then she's unhappy because she's trapped in a marriage with one guy but she wants to be with someone else. Her husband is stuck with a wife who doesn't want him and Varric is stuck pining away after Bianca. Angst for everyone!

 

I agree the situation is stupid, and would've liked the option to deal with the Carta

[Former_Fiend]

Personally if given the option I would have told Varric to let her go and move on with his life because frankly shutting down the Carta so Varric can bang who he wants to bang is not a worthy use of the Inquisition's resources.

 

But I do think it should be an option.

[Yermogi]

You're being unfair to Bianca who was also put in a situation she didn't want because husband (that she was pretty much forced to marry) is a nice guy, we see that Bianca also cares deeply for Varric the same way he cares for her

Sorry- I don't see that. I see a woman who is in an arranged marriage that she isn't unhappy in. I also see a woman who is highly casual in her interactions with a man who is deeply in love with her. I don't see love on her end. Affection, maybe, but not love.

Now, do I think she's evil? No. Do I think she's commiting a crime against all decent life? No. Except involving red lyrium, but that's different. But she doesn't love Varric. She cares about him, but she doesn't love him. That's what I see.

Bianca hardly cares about Varric as he cares for her. She's living a life of luxury with a good husband while her lover is countries away developing a highly strange relationship with a crossbow named after her, who is also faithful to her even though she goes nowhere near him most of the time.

I say again- Varric and Bianca's relationship is toxic.

[AresKeith]

Personally if given the option I would have told Varric to let her go and move on with his life because frankly shutting down the Carta so Varric can bang who he wants to bang is not a worthy use of the Inquisition's resources.

 

But I do think it should be an option.

 

Think about it this way too, you could also get her brilliant smithing as an asset to the Inquisition

[Ynqve]

Think about it this way too, you could also get her brilliant smithing as an asset to the Inquisition

 

Hm... Varric gets to bang the girl he wants to bang and I get a brilliant smith? 

 

WHY WON'T YOU LET ME ABUSE MY POWER, BIOWARE?

[Former_Fiend]

Think about it this way too, you could also get her brilliant smithing as an asset to the Inquisition

 

Think about it this way too, you could also get her brilliant smithing as an asset to the Inquisition

 

No thanks. I don't want anything to do with her as part of my Inquisition. 

[Yermogi]

No, it isn't.

Decent guy or not, it's an arranged marriage. Bianca had no say or choice when it came to marrying this guy. Him being a decent guy is kind of luck of the draw, really. She's under no moral obligation - as far as I'm concerned - to stay faithful to a man who she didn't choose to be with, regardless of how he does or doesn't treat her.

I disagree. If he was abusive to her in some way, that would be different. But he's done nothing to Bianca to deserve being cheated on. Arranged marriage or not, its not right for her to cheat on someone who has done nothing to deserve it. He's in an arranged marriage too- it's not like he chose to marry her either (as far as I understand). Affairs are bad, but especially if the person being cheated on has done nothing to deserve it.

[AresKeith]

No thanks. I don't want anything to do with her as part of my Inquisition. 

 

Pffft suit yourself

[Former_Fiend]

I disagree. If he was abusive to her in some way, that would be different. But he's done nothing to Bianca to deserve being cheated on. Arranged marriage or not, its not right for her to cheat on someone who has done nothing to deserve it. He's in an arranged marriage too- it's not like he chose to marry her either (as far as I understand). Affairs are bad, but especially if the person being cheated on has done nothing to deserve it.

 

I disagree absolutely. Simply put, I see the complete lack of choice on either of their parts in taking marriage vows as rendering those vows null and void from a moral stand point. Does he deserve to be cheated on? Probably not, but he also doesn't have any reason to expect loyalty from her to start with because it wasn't her choice to be with him.

 

Likewise I wouldn't fault him were he to have an affair. There is no realistic, logical reason why both of these people can't just have paramours on the side while maintaining their marriage for political/business reasons; there would be no moral conflict in that, as far as I'm concerned.

[Former_Fiend]

Pffft suit yourself

 

Her "brilliant smithing" is part of why I dislike her as a character. 

 

She's a better smith than Branka, she's a better marksman than Varric, she's snarky, she's tough enough to threaten the Inquisitor without reprisals, she's utterly invaluable to the Carta and the Merchant's guild. Bioware did everything but have a neon sign appear over this woman that reads "OMG GUYS, SERIOUSLY, THIS CHICK IS AWESOME AND STRONG AND AMAZING! CAN'T YOU SEE WHY VARRIC CAN NEVER LOVE ANYONE ELSE WHEN SHE IS SO PERFECT? EVEN HER F*CKUPS BENEFIT YOU WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT!"

 

So yea, thanks, I'll stick with Dagna.

[AresKeith]

I disagree absolutely. Simply put, I see the complete lack of choice on either of their parts in taking marriage vows as rendering those vows null and void from a moral stand point. Does he deserve to be cheated on? Probably not, but he also doesn't have any reason to expect loyalty from her to start with because it wasn't her choice to be with him.

 

Likewise I wouldn't fault him were he to have an affair. There is no realistic, logical reason why both of these people can't just have paramours on the side while maintaining their marriage for political/business reasons; there would be no moral conflict in that, as far as I'm concerned.

 

If human nobility in Thedas does it, I don't see why Dwarves don't although they may be more strict about it

[Yermogi]

I disagree absolutely. Simply put, I see the complete lack of choice on either of their parts in taking marriage vows as rendering those vows null and void from a moral stand point. Does he deserve to be cheated on? Probably not, but he also doesn't have any reason to expect loyalty from her to start with because it wasn't her choice to be with him.

Likewise I wouldn't fault him were he to have an affair. There is no realistic, logical reason why both of these people can't just have paramours on the side while maintaining their marriage for political/business reasons; there would be no moral conflict in that, as far as I'm concerned.

I think we just have different opinions on this particular issue that neither of us are going to be swayed from.

[Former_Fiend]

I think we just have different opinions on this particular issue that neither of us are going to be swayed from.

 

Likely. I'm willing to agree to disagree.