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Varric the Storyteller: Keeping us company in the Keep


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#24576
Ynqve

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Ah, the blame game.

 

 

Anders was his friend at the time. Varric looks out for his friends. That is no failing.

 

He sure as hell didn't look out for him afterwards. 

 

 

Sure. No way he would have known the consequences of discovering a puny little idol, though. 

 

 

That started as simply going after a Carta clan hunting Hawke. Once again, how was he supposed to know where that would lead? 

 

Hindsight is 20 friggin 20. 

 

THIS! 

 

How is he a bad guy for helping his friend? A friend who he then cuts ties with after the chantry goes boom? 

How is he a bad guy for releasing the idol when he 1. didn't know it was there, 2. didn't know what it did, 3. wasn't the one who brought it to the surface - Bartrand did that and 4. HAS BEEN TRYING TO CONTAIN THAT **** EVER SINCE! ?

 

How is he a bad guy for releasing Cory when he didn't know he was there and was 100 % convinced that he killed Cory. And what is Varric's reaction to seeing Cory again? Contacting Hawke, coming clean about his lies and tries to provide as much info to the Inquisition as he can about Corypheus. 

 

But yes, let's blame Varric for everything. Makes total sense


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#24577
Chernaya

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The difference in those things that Varric did that sets him apart from Bianca is that he couldn't have known they were going to happen. He protected Anders because he was his friend, but more importantly, Hawke's friend. He was always cautious and unsure of him, but he's no more guilty than any of our other companions in DA2 for Anders actions. He had no clue about what Red Lyrium was at the time of discovering the Idol, he just thought it was a treasure. He told Bianca about how evil it was and she was still careless and completely reckless concerning it. He thought they were defeating Corypheus, nobody there had any reason to believe he wasn't actually dead. Sure, he contributed unknowingly to these things, but the biggest difference is that he's taking responsibility by joining the Inquisition and helping to fix the world. What does Bianca do? Not even an "oops" before hightaling it out of there, leaving others to clean up a huge mess she made even after being warned about how dangerous that lyrium was.


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#24578
Ynqve

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If we do get to judge him, I hope we get the option to declare him the Bro of all Bros, give him a hug and throw him a big party. The guy deserves it!



#24579
Hanako Ikezawa

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We should start a "judgment for Varric" dlc petition.

All options end in beheading or throwing him off the battlements of course.

I'm down for it. There should be a nicer option for those who like him.

 

 

Ah, the blame game.

 

 

Anders was his friend at the time. Varric looks out for his friends. That is no failing.

 

He sure as hell didn't look out for him afterwards. 

 

 

Sure. No way he would have known the consequences of discovering a puny little idol, though. 

 

 

That started as simply going after a Carta clan hunting Hawke. Once again, how was he supposed to know where that would lead? 

 

Moral of this story is hindsight is 20 friggin 20, tbh.

And likewise Bianca had no way of knowing that what she did was arm one of the ancient Tevinter magisters that brought the Blight to Thedas with Red Lyrium. She gave something that was Blighted to a Warden who offered to help so she could help Varric who told her to look into it, as well as her trying to help by looking out for Varric if he keeps the shard by finding ways to combat its influence and by trying to find a way to reverse the effects if Bartrand is alive. You yourself said that helping friends isn't a failing. I agree, and I put that one in there for this exact reason. But nope, she is blamed for that while Varric who has done worse is given the "Well, he didn't know what would happen" defense. That's called hypocrisy. 



#24580
Ynqve

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And likewise Bianca had no way of knowing that what she did was arm one of the ancient Tevinter magisters that brought the Blight to Thedas with Red Lyrium. She gave something that was Blighted to a Warden who offered to help so she could help Varric who told her to look into it, as well as her trying to help by looking out for Varric if he keeps the shard by finding ways to combat its influence and by trying to find a way to reverse the effects if Bartrand is alive. You yourself said that helping friends isn't a failing. I agree, but I put that one in there for this exact reason. But nope, she is blamed for that while Varric who has done worse is given the "Well, he didn't know what would happen" defense. That's called hypocrisy. 

 

 

Varric has told her everything he knows about the red lyrium. She knows how dangerous it is, she knows what happened to Bartrand and Meredith and she knows that Varric is scared to death of it. She still decides to a) tell someone else the location of the Thaig and b ) doesn't warn Varric or clear it with him at all, in fact she's perfectly fine with letting him feel the guilt of every death caused by the red lyrium. She doesn't take responsibility for her actions, she doesn't care that she betrayed Varric's trust and she doesn't care that he's been so depressed by it. Best. Girlfriend. Ever!

 

Edited because somehow half my post disappeared, strange.  


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#24581
Chernaya

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If we do get to judge him, I hope we get the option to declare him the Bro of all Bros, give him a hug and throw him a big party. The guy deserves it!

 

I'll judge him alright, I'll judge him for being an awesome and loyal friend who deals with people's crap and get involved in horrible things constantly, yet always tries to help fix everything because he can't just stand there while the world is going to ****. The man should get a medal. :D


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#24582
Chrys

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That's not a crisis scene, that's just Varric lecturing you. 

 

Yes it is. A crisis scene is the one(s) you get for low approval. They don't all involve leaving or punching.

 

By the way, I've just remembered I haven't seen an Iron Bull crisis scene. So it's possible Vivienne doesn't leave and Bull might not even get a crisis?


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#24583
Chernaya

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Yes it is. A crisis scene is the one(s) you get for low approval. They don't all involve leaving or punching.

 

By the way, I've just remembered I haven't seen an Iron Bull crisis scene. So it's possible Vivienne doesn't leave and Bull might not even get a crisis?

 

Yeah... I think Bull's most dramatic move is just ignoring you and sitting in the tavern quietly if he has low approval. XD 



#24584
HuldraDancer

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Since we are kind of talking about Bianca again may I say something (no this isn't hate for her character I'm well past my initial Grrrr phase and into underwhelmed and eh mind of her.)

 

I think it might have been better if she was dead at least better for Varric's character, she could still be larger than life in his mind because to him she was that utterly amazing and I have met people that don't seek out love after a certain someone they deeply cared about has died and it can be quite touching. At the very least for selfish reasons now it would have saved his character from taking a massive blow (solely in my opinion of course, no disrespect meant to anyone who thinks otherwise) I think it would have been a better way to handle her (again just my opinion props to you if you enjoy her character) Mostly I think this because to me she comes off as less of a character and more of a semi plot device, she'd still be a semi plot device if they went about it this way but to me at least she'd come up as a more meaningful one.

 

Beh this sounded much better in my head now I'm finding trouble in trying to write out what I mean.


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#24585
Chrys

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Yeah... I think Bull's most dramatic move is just ignoring you and sitting in the tavern quietly if he has low approval. XD 

 

Whoa. Drama llama.

 

It disappoints me a little bit only because they said pretty much all companions could leave, and most of us expected that for all optional recruits, but in the end two of those don't, apparently. Plus I think Sera doesn't leave of her own will, but I could be wrong there. 



#24586
Chernaya

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Whoa. Drama llama.

 

It disappoints me a little bit only because they said pretty much all companions could leave, and most of us expected that for all optional recruits, but in the end two of those don't, apparently. Plus I think Sera doesn't leave of her own will, but I could be wrong there. 

 

Yeah I guess the only way out of those two is just not recruiting them. It would be interesting if everyone had a crisis moment though, even if I like them it would be something worth seeing - adds extra character and makes them feel more realistic. I know Vivienne is there for her own motives so will probably just stick it out with a PC she dislikes, and Bull is really lax and probably doesn't care as long as he's being paid... but yeah. Vivienne coulda had some epic kind of revenge scene, rather than just moving around decorations. XD Could've been frightening!


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#24587
Mrs.Chestbeard

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I feel the same way. I would love a DLC where we can get to know all the companions more, especially our new ones. I'd love characters like the Chargers or Scout Harding incorporated into something as well. A nice big expansion would be aweeeesome. >.> *greedy* 

 

Okay, I'm a little late to replying but I had to shoot out of the house and yada yada *really boring story about getting lost downtown*

( lived here my whole life, you'd think I would know my way around by now but nope.) lol I would LOVE a DLC where we could get to know the companions better! *cough* And a scout Harding romance DLC *cough* :ph34r:

 

 

CHESTY! :D

 

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Welcome back! I'm glad you liked the game, and I agree about the need for DLC. TAKE MY MONEY BIOWARE, JUST TAKE IT!

 

Ynqve, HIIIIIIII! :D I'm so glad to see that at least a few of the old members are still here!!

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And yes! Take all my moneys Bioware!!

Spoiler



On the subject of low approval. I didn't know about any of this stuff!! By the grace of the maker I somehow managed to stay on good terms with everyone except Vivienne. (And I honestly saw that coming from a mile away. O_O) I don't have the heart to do it intentionally, so I'll probably just Youtube most of this stuff.  Doesn't she throw a fit and start moving stuff around Skyhold if you side with the mages? or did I just imagine that?...


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#24588
Chrys

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On the subject of low approval. I didn't know about any of this stuff!! By the grace of the maker I somehow managed to stay on good terms with everyone except Vivienne. (And I honestly saw that coming from a mile away. O_O) I don't have the heart to do it intentionally, so I'll probably just Youtube most of this stuff.  Doesn't she throw a fit and start moving stuff around Skyhold if you side with the mages? or did I just imagine that?...

 

On low approval. It doesn't have anything to do with who you pick, because you can side with the mages and then gain approval by saying what she wants to hear, for example.

 

And hey, Alistair managed to stay out of trouble for five minutes if he's King. Though he did make an incursion into Qun land...



#24589
blissfulbhajan

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Since we are kind of talking about Bianca again may I say something (no this isn't hate for her character I'm well past my initial Grrrr phase and into underwhelmed and eh mind of her.)

 

I think it might have been better if she was dead at least better for Varric's character, she could still be larger than life in his mind because to him she was that utterly amazing and I have met people that don't seek out love after a certain someone they deeply cared about has died and it can be quite touching. At the very least for selfish reasons now it would have saved his character from taking a massive blow (solely in my opinion of course, no disrespect meant to anyone who thinks otherwise) I think it would have been a better way to handle her (again just my opinion props to you if you enjoy her character) Mostly I think this because to me she comes off as less of a character and more of a semi plot device, she'd still be a semi plot device if they went about it this way but to me at least she'd come up as a more meaningful one.

 

Beh this sounded much better in my head now I'm finding trouble in trying to write out what I mean.

 

you know you'll get no argument from me here. I'm as much against Fridging a character as the next person but in comparison it 1) works better with the cannon game and comic alike and 2) just makes for a better story. And by better I mean "one where Varric could actually be happy" inside of the sad life we see Varric had. I've said this before, and it's not as if this 15 year affair is a horrible story- it's an interesting one and it's only horrible in the fact that I'm filled with all sad feels.

 

also, yeah no. You can't blame Varric for all the terrible things that happened in Thedas because he had no idea that it would go so bad. I could maybe see the point where Varric protected Anders for too long, but so did Hawke, Merrill, Aveline and Isabela thus they'd all be equally guilty of Anders crimes if you put it that way.

 

Bianca on the other had KNEW that the red lyrium was dangerous and still went it alone and then got outside help from someone she barely knew who ends up *gasp* betraying her. Sure, I wouldn't behead her for this, but maybe have her punishment be something like she's an agent now and cannot got off and do dangerous **** by herself anymore.


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#24590
Chernaya

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I wouldn't have ever went as far as hurting Bianca, but she does seem like too dangerous of a person to just let go after that experience, especially as a first impression. It would have been perfect if we could have conscripted her into service to use her skills for some actual good instead of harm.


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#24591
Rel Fexive

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In the "but they didn't know what would happen!" stakes, Bianca was a sheldload of red lyrium more informed than Varric ever was.


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#24592
Chernaya

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In the "but they didn't know what would happen!" stakes, Bianca was a sheldload of red lyrium more informed than Varric ever was.

 

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Bianca had way less of an excuse for her actions concerning the lyrium than Varric did. It comes down between simple ignorance on one side and plain recklessness on the other.



#24593
Master Warder Z_

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Besides the fact Varric spread news of the crap.

The Thaig was a forgotten ruin lost to time and it would have remained that way if Varric had just kept his bloody mouth shut.

#24594
Chernaya

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It was indeed Varric's bad (and probably blindness due to affection) for trusting her, I'll admit that... but it doesn't excuse her actions which I find even more stupid. 



#24595
Rel Fexive

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It was indeed Varric's bad (and probably blindness due to affection) for trusting her, I'll admit that... but it doesn't excuse her actions which I find even more stupid. 

 

I'm forced (forced I tell ya!) to agree.  The way he trusts his friends... I think she'd have to do a whole lot worse for him to lose his trust in Bianca.  I wonder if trust was her problem here too - how good a tale was she told by Corfieoops's meat puppet to overcome what we can only assume were Varric's very in-depth stories of disaster, madness and general badness associated with the Red Stuff?  I think that just how she was convinced to accept that "help" despite all of Varric's warnings will sadly remain a mystery.


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#24596
Master Warder Z_

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It was indeed Varric's bad (and probably blindness due to affection) for trusting her, I'll admit that... but it doesn't excuse her actions which I find even more stupid.


It's his fault.

And I told him that.

And he was like "but..."

*Varric disapproves*

And I was like..."that's it?"

#24597
Hanako Ikezawa

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Varric has told her everything he knows about the red lyrium. She knows how dangerous it is, she knows what happened to Bartrand and Meredith and she knows that Varric is scared to death of it. She still decides to a) tell someone else the location of the Thaig and b ) doesn't warn Varric or clear it with him at all, in fact she's perfectly fine with letting him feel the guilt of every death caused by the red lyrium. She doesn't take responsibility for her actions, she doesn't care that she betrayed Varric's trust and she doesn't care that he's been so depressed by it. Best. Girlfriend. Ever!

 

Edited because somehow half my post disappeared, strange.  

Varric also tells the location of the Thaig to people he thinks can help, just like Bianca does. She hadn't even heard from Varric since before the Chantry explosion, so she doesn't know what happened. For all she knew, the Red Lyrium was involved in his silence so that's yet another reason to figure it out to help him, since she says all of this was to help Varric, especially if Bartrand is alive and Varric kept the shard. 

 

I just replayed the quest this morning, and where are you getting that she didn't care that she betrayed Varric's trust or feels bad about what's happened. When the truth is revealed, she sounds pretty upset at what she has done. She just says she decided she's going to do something about it over moping about her mistakes.

 

 

I'm forced (forced I tell ya!) to agree.  The way he trusts his friends... I think she'd have to do a whole lot worse for him to lose his trust in Bianca.  I wonder if trust was her problem here too - how good a tale was she told by Corfieoops's meat puppet to overcome what we can only assume were Varric's very in-depth stories of disaster, madness and general badness associated with the Red Stuff?  I think that just how she was convinced to accept that "help" despite all of Varric's warnings will sadly remain a mystery.

She tells us why: She goes to the Wardens for help after discovering Red Lyurium is Lyrium that has the Blight. She runs into Larius/Janeka who shows they are a Warden Mage so she thinks she succeeded since a Warden Mage is someone who is an expert on the Blight and magic. Who better to help her? 

 

Plus Varric isn't one to trust friends: He didn't trust the Inquisitor who he treats like a friend about Hawke, his friend who he knows would want to help, until after getting to Skyhold.

 

Yes it is. A crisis scene is the one(s) you get for low approval. They don't all involve leaving or punching.

 

By the way, I've just remembered I haven't seen an Iron Bull crisis scene. So it's possible Vivienne doesn't leave and Bull might not even get a crisis?

I think of a crisis scene as a scene that triggers a crisis, for example a character crisis scene is where if you say or do the wrong thing the character will either leave you or die. For example Sera has a crisis scene. 



#24598
Chernaya

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I'm forced (forced I tell ya!) to agree.  The way he trusts his friends... I think she'd have to do a whole lot worse for him to lose his trust in Bianca.  I wonder if trust was her problem here too - how good a tale was she told by Corfieoops's meat puppet to overcome what we can only assume were Varric's very in-depth stories of disaster, madness and general badness associated with the Red Stuff?  I think that just how she was convinced to accept that "help" despite all of Varric's warnings will sadly remain a mystery.

 

Yeah. I don't know if it's a flaw exactly, but Varric does indeed seem to be trusting to a dangerous extent. Perhaps he's a little careless in that respect as well, but I know for sure he would never be dumb enough to hand over a huge cave of glowing red crap he was told was dangerous and bad to a random stranger. XD Nope.

 

And now for something kinda disturbing I accidentally stumbled into in my game...

 

Spoiler

 

 

D8 I... I dunno. halp.



#24599
Ynqve

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Yeah. I don't know if it's a flaw exactly, but Varric does indeed seem to be trusting to a dangerous extent. Perhaps he's a little careless in that respect as well, but I know for sure he would never be dumb enough to hand over a huge cave of glowing red crap he was told was dangerous and bad to a random stranger. XD Nope.

 

And now for something kinda disturbing I accidentally stumbled into in my game...

 

Spoiler

 

 

D8 I... I dunno. halp.

 

tumblr_n34idbuy8M1rpzci6o4_250.gif

 

that is really disturbing!


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#24600
Ceoldoren

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Long time no see guys...glad to see everythings so cordial.  :huh:

 

 

Of course Warder would be talking about killing Varric, somehow I am not surprised by this.  :rolleyes:

 

 

So, small rant. I've been replaying through the Mass Effect series. I romanced Kaidan in ME1 which I've done before. I actually really like Kaidan, he's a good guy.

 

For ME2 I decided to go with Jacob who, again. I actually like. Always seemed like a bro and I've never romanced him before so why not ? 

 

So question......WHO THE HELL WROTE HIS CHARACTER FOR ME3 ?!?! WHY WAS I NOT WARNED ABOUT THIS ?!?! 

 

I mean, who actually thought having him cheat on you was a good idea. Who actually cleared that.....

 

why-god-why1.gif

 

so stupid.

 

Anyway, good to see everyone, rant over.