12 réponses à ce sujet

[Dale]

RE: Announcing “the BioWare Forum” (Feb 2014)

 

First, you don’t know how refreshing it is to read lines like this:

 

We believe in constructive discussion and productive debate that end with handshakes.

 

In addition, we’re taking a strong stance in our standards for online behaviors.

 

Please give us any input that will allow us to prevent online harassment and trolling. Our team will be enforcing a zero-tolerance policy for anyone who makes another player or an employee feel harassed. If you wouldn’t treat a stranger that way in person, please don’t treat them that way online.

 

Origin, you are exceptionally good – but not quite there (yet). The Steam forum declaration had a similar “policy” which is totally unenforced. 

 

Example:  In 2009 I played Fallout-3.  If you’ve played that, you know weapons deteriorate.  The solution is to purchase an exact (or similar weapon – depending on your “perk” & repair skills) and bring that weapon up to 100% working order.   I was 1/3 into the game & couldn’t find any weapon to repair my android’s rifle it so I asked a simple question on the Steam Forum:

 

“How is the android’s plasma rifle repaired?”

 

Immediately, juvenile delinquents (JDs) responded as follows:

 

JD1: “if you weren’t such a stupid d*****s, you’d know to check the wiki for that!”

              -followed by-

JD2: “yeah, he is a d*****s isn’t he?”

              -followed by-

JD3: “I know the answer to that, but I’m not telling you!”.

 

Subsequently I checked the wiki and (at that time) there was no solution there (now there is).

 

              -finally-

 

I received an ADULT answer:  “you’ve not progressed enough in the game to meet up with a group called the Enclave.  When you do, they have similar plasma weapons you can use for repair”.

 

ANALYSIS:  What is the purpose of making those first 3 posts?   This is not “a difference of opinion”.   Obviously to increase the number of [meaningless] POSTs.

 

My older sister has a doctorate in psychology & teaches at the U of ABQ. I’m not like her.  I’m not going to hold & pat their little hand and say “I’m so sorry you never got a birthday cake, allowance, date, or couldn’t qualify for the football team.  I’m sorry bratty slander is your normal vocabulary – hating everybody and you hide behind the security your computer screen telling the world your skateboard is really a Hummer or Corvette because if you REALLY talked to people like that, you’d likely get your teeth knocked out”.

 

These JDs don’t rent any space in my mind – but my point is, they are a WASTE OF TIME & contribute nothing.  Others may be outrageously offended (which is the goal of the JDs). There have been numerous appeals from folks “over there” asking the Steam forum management to give them a BLOCK, IGNORE, CLEANUP (anything) to keep these “gangs” of JDs from hijacking their threads & derailing them – then to add insult to injury, congratulate each other on how well they derailed the thread & insulted the authors & other contributors.  That APPEAL thread had a JD response:  "HAHAHAHAHAHA!"

 

This is rampant and the reason I’ve switched to the Origin forums and why I will patronize $$$ here before I buy a game there (in fact, I’d pay double).   Though Origin is a million miles ahead of Steam (with the “REPORT” and IGNORE features), may I suggest something to utterly flush these rabid rats down the sewer where they belong?

 

(1) Thread CREATORS have total autonomy over their thread.  When they add someone offensive to their IGNORE list, it automatically BLOCKS any further post on current and future threads of that creator.  Example:  “you are on this thread creator’s IGNORE list and cannot make posts”.   It’s not good enough just to make an offender “invisible” to the creator – the JDs want to be seen by everybody else on the thread.

 

(2) Thread CREATORS can clean (delete) offensive posts on their thread and when deleted, the number of posts of the offender is automatically SUBTRACTED (& notifying them).   Don’t bother cleaning up QUOTES from the offender – you can leave them.  That would be too much work & expense.

 

Those 2 things would put the polish to the Origin forums and drive the JDs back into Steam.  You’re so close now, it would only take a little polish to be the MODEL forum.  

 

Without exception (every forum – pleasure & business) there are deadbeats that can’t find anything to do with their miserable lives but permanently “camp out” on a forum, think they own it, make 40,000 crap posts (to become the “pillar of the community”) annoy, pester, & waste our time.  They are aggressive & won’t go away.  These features will keep Origin clean & respectable.

 

Thanks for your consideration.

 

Forum readers - please stand with me.

JDs:  make my point

[Reznore57]

This is a terrible idea.

If people want to troll they can create a thread anyway , and letting users going all "I am the Law" in their own little thread?

Yeah I really can't imagine how that could end badly.Or double the work of moderators , who would have to check everytime somebody is complaining their posts have been erased for unfair reasons.

[dreamgazer]

Thread creators having autonomy over their discussions will easily lead to stifled, one-sided discussion.

[Sir DeLoria]

Fallout 3 is awesome and Tunnel Snakes rule!

Just wanted to throw that in.

[Dale]

simfamSP

Thanks for your time and thoughtful responses.

[Dale]

Fallout 3 is awesome and Tunnel Snakes rule!

Just wanted to throw that in.

Yep!  F3 is the only game I've ever played for 9 months straight.   Mass effect comes behind at 4 months.

[Dale]

Thread creators having autonomy over their discussions will easily lead to stifled, one-sided discussion.

Yes dreamgazer, you have a good point.  Thank you.

 

However if you take it in the CONTEXT of my original post, you can see this pertains to juvenile sarcasm, slander, and waste-of-time crap posts.  I certainly welcome a good discussion and debate.   One raging right now is "why people hate Liara" that both you & I are participating.   What a hoot to read!   If I were the owner of that thread, I would delete nobody.  Great debate there!   I NEVER throw rocks at the PERSON!  The rule is to throw rocks at the IDEA (with supporting evidence -- most of with is OPINON -- and that's fine).

 

In regard to those with outrageous # posts - let no body misunderstand me -- some are genuine HEROs for sure.  One Apple forum (video editing) is one Tom Wolsky with over 900k posts.  There, they've converted it to "points" (now with 100K+ points).  He is definitely my hero -  and to most over there.

[Coming0fShadows]

(1) would be pretty nice if used properly, I just don't know how you could prevent it from being misused.

[Shadow Storm]

@ Dale Why do you actually see this as a good thing ? First of all are these forums actually bad enough to even warrant this policy? I certainly haven't seen anything bad enough to warrant it. You want to see bad forums read the White Knight chronicles forums. In my experience these sort of policies are only an excuse for staff members to silence those that don't agree with their decisions. Take ME3 for example.

 

You think we can have a relevant and constructive yet heated debate about bad game choices when staff members walk in and argue with us? The minute we argue against them...."Ooh you are attacking a staff member don't do that or you will get banned". "Except our version or don't have an opinion at all". When FF ARR came out it was complete garbage crashing at every turn and was always too full. When players got angry they got banned for "attacking a staff member" even though their opinions were constructive, on topic and completely valid.

 

If someone is being outright nasty to a person calling them names etc then sure feel free to ban them. This is a very small number of players however and they usually stop after a warning. Nothing here is serious enough to warrant this kind of policy unless Bioware is covering their bases for something that is likely to get an angry reaction.

[Abraham_uk]

(1) Thread CREATORS have total autonomy over their thread.  When they add someone offensive to their IGNORE list, it automatically BLOCKS any further post on current and future threads of that creator.  Example:  “you are on this thread creator’s IGNORE list and cannot make posts”.   It’s not good enough just to make an offender “invisible” to the creator – the JDs want to be seen by everybody else on the thread.

 

(2) Thread CREATORS can clean (delete) offensive posts on their thread and when deleted, the number of posts of the offender is automatically SUBTRACTED (& notifying them).   Don’t bother cleaning up QUOTES from the offender – you can leave them.  That would be too much work & expense.

 

Those 2 things would put the polish to the Origin forums and drive the JDs back into Steam.  You’re so close now, it would only take a little polish to be the MODEL forum.  

This reminds me of something Anita Sarkeesian once said.

Her videos comments sections were flooded with abusive trolls. It was bad. Really bad.

However there were some constructive feedback and some very positive feedback on her videos comment's sections.

 

Please note that the hate campaign against her was horrendous. I don't blame her for blocking the comments sections.

I can see why you might want to have more control. However one must be careful going down this road.

Where do you draw the line between blocking trolls and blocking all comments that you don't like?

 

In the case of Anita Sarkeesian, blocking all comments altogether.

Sadly the internet is a place of horrible and unhelpful remarks.

Report the abusers to the moderators and pay more attention to those will useful remarks.

 

[Dale]

Abraham_uk

 

Thank you for your TIME in offering your thoughtful comments and insights.   I appreciate your substance, being articulate, & choice of words -- which is RARE on a forum.  Thank you.   I watched Anita's video that you provided.   Almost word-for-word my original post (at the top):

 

"Not working alone -- but loosely coordinating with each other -- to earn the praise & approval of their peers -- with trophies to show off to each other -- it is not going away if we ignore it".

 

With that said, you'd think I just plagiarized her.   Glad someone ACKNOWLEDGES there is a problem -- but it is quite another thing to DEAL with the problem.  

 

Both sides can be argued equally.  Free speech or censorship.   Neither EXTREME is good.   For example, "free speech" should END when you cross the threshold of my door --  since it doesn't -- we get a dozen telephone solicitations a day.  Alternatively, lack of "free speech" can be exploited by despots we've read in history.  As with any subject such as this, it seems to boil down to making a decision between the LESSER of the 2 evils -- unless you're like Kirk who "wants that 3rd alternative" (which I'm proposing).

 

But idealism shouldn't make us loose perspective of the situation.  This isn't about the life & security of 300 million people living in a nation -- it is a FORUM.  As the saying goes, "if you OBEY the law, you have nothing to FEAR from the law".    

 

Yes, some think their "post" is worth a million dollars --  and if deleted, then galaxies will explode.   If someone deleted my post -- then I would (1) examine myself to see if I was rude or offensive (not going to happen) or (2) I'd just move on to the other thread (which are more than I can handle anyway).  

 

In any case, the one making the post will certainly keep in mind to be civilized.   Pick any magazine which has feedback (near the front of the magazine).   You honestly believe the editor will publish slanderous remarks by JDs?   Granted, we've seen folks tactfully disagree -- and those are published.  But then, forum jerks are permitted FREE REIGN here?

 

Some of your comments:

.===================================================================================================================

Please note that the hate campaign against her was horrendous. I don't blame her for blocking the comments sections.  YES REALLY

I can see why you might want to have more control. However one must be careful going down this road.  AGREED AS I SEE YOUR POINT -- BUT ASTEROID IMPACT WON'T OCCUR

Where do you draw the line between blocking trolls and blocking all comments that you don't like?  I GUESS THE LESSER OF THE TWO EVILS IS TO LET THE JDs RULE (they are laughing themselves silly reading this)

 

In the case of Anita Sarkeesian, blocking all comments altogether.  I APPLAUD HER AND WOULD HELP HER SHOOT THE B**T***S!   WHAT'S THE POINT OF KEEPING SUCH GARBAGE?

Sadly the internet is a place of horrible and unhelpful remarks.   TWO EDGED SWORD -- BUT WE SHOULDN'T ROLL OVER AN PLAY DEAD.

Report the abusers to the moderators and pay more attention to those will useful remarks.   GOOD CALL FOR ACTION

.===================================================================================================================

 

BTY - I've lived long enough to discover that a juvenile delinquent (JD) doesn't necessarily pertain to age.  At the London airport I was waiting in line to see a grown man have a tantrum because he didn't get the seat assignment he wanted.   Many of us wanted to throw him into the nearby fountain -- then one lady in front of me said "I think the guy is retarded".  

 

.===================================================================================================================

My third suggestion is as follows:

 

Just as the forum already has in place the feature "so-and-so LIKES this post" (lower-right corner) ... I would like to see ABOVE the post this message:

 

"this post is being IGNORED by the following individuals"

individual-1

individual-2

individual-3

 

Now the JDs can slander anybody they want -- but others reading the thread are aware others are ignoring this behavior (which takes the wind out of their arrogance).  In my view, this is certainly NOT censorship.

 

Specifically:  just as you have a LIKE button in the lower-right, my suggestion is to have (at the top) two buttons for all who participate in a thread:

(1) ignore this post only.

(2) ignore all posts by this user for this thread only.

 

Of course if you want to ignore every thread everywhere (for a particular user) then the in-place mechanism is fine.

[dreamgazer]

Yes dreamgazer, you have a good point.  Thank you.

 

However if you take it in the CONTEXT of my original post, you can see this pertains to juvenile sarcasm, slander, and waste-of-time crap posts.  I certainly welcome a good discussion and debate.   One raging right now is "why people hate Liara" that both you & I are participating.   What a hoot to read!   If I were the owner of that thread, I would delete nobody.  Great debate there!   I NEVER throw rocks at the PERSON!  The rule is to throw rocks at the IDEA (with supporting evidence -- most of with is OPINON -- and that's fine).

 

I agree with your rationale, but unfortunately you can't really have one without the other.  Once you open the gate to personal censorship/moderation, every post's merit falls to the discretion of the topic's "owner", which can and will be abused.