291 réponses à ce sujet

[Ailith Tycane]

I liked the Isabela rivalmance.

 

Isabella's rivalmance was really the only one I was thinking of, since I thought the Anders and Fenris romances both leaned towards abusive even in the friend romances, but that's just my opinion.

 

I just like the idea of being able to stick to your beliefs and not always kowtow to a companions opinions just because you want to romance them, and yet still be able to romance them. BG2 kind of had a system like this, where sometimes being too nice and agreeable to a companions behavior would end up driving them away. 

[tmp7704]

I dislike that, as that's how we got crap like DA2's rivalmances, which could at times go into the abusive zone. Why romance someone you don't like?

Because it's possible and perfectly normal to like some aspect's of someone more than you dislike some other of their aspects. Attraction isn't a 100% off/on thing, and chances you will ever find someone whose personality is absolutely, completely in accordance with your tastes... well, let's just say they aren't really good.

Also because the line between intense dislike and intense attraction can be pretty thin and easy to cross.

[Ascendra]

Because it's possible and perfectly normal to like some aspect's of someone more than you dislike some other of their aspects. Attraction isn't a 100% off/on thing, and chances you will ever find someone whose personality is absolutely, completely in accordance with your tastes... well, let's just say they aren't really good.

Also because the line between intense dislike and intense attraction can be pretty thin and easy to cross.

Agreed. And sometimes they go hand in hand. You may be physically attracted to someone but hate their guts, or you may not care about their feelings, or they about yours - The beauty of nature.
Ah rivalmances, even though you were twisted, ill miss you

[Aimi]

Isabella's rivalmance was really the only one I was thinking of, since I thought the Anders and Fenris romances both leaned towards abusive even in the friend romances, but that's just my opinion.

I liked the Merrill rivalmance for much the same reason as the Isabela rivalmance.

[Xilizhra]

Because it's possible and perfectly normal to like some aspect's of someone more than you dislike some other of their aspects. Attraction isn't a 100% off/on thing, and chances you will ever find someone whose personality is absolutely, completely in accordance with your tastes... well, let's just say they aren't really good.

Also because the line between intense dislike and intense attraction can be pretty thin and easy to cross.

"You cannot be my friend and despise what I stand for."

 

Two people in a loving relationship don't have to like everything they do, but neither should one try to tear down the core of another's character.

[tmp7704]

"You cannot be my friend and despise what I stand for."
 
Two people in a loving relationship don't have to like everything they do, but neither should one try to tear down the core of another's character.

Disagreeing doesn't equal trying to tear down the core of another's character.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

[Xilizhra]

Disagreeing doesn't equal trying to tear down the core of another's character.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

No, but the rivalmances frequently do.

[Aimi]

Sometimes the rivalmances are more like "saving people from themselves", trying to fix self-destructive aspects of their character.

Which is something I've tried to do before, because I'm an idiot. And something that I still think is worthwhile, because I'm a sentimental idiot.

[Who Knows]

I get the impression that the issue here is not that disagreement exists so much as how the disagreement is conveyed.

 

You need rivalry points for a rivalry romance, which can easily mean you the non-romance-specific aggressive options that result in a lot of harsh criticism.

[Xilizhra]

Sometimes the rivalmances are more like "saving people from themselves", trying to fix self-destructive aspects of their character.

Which is something I've tried to do before, because I'm an idiot. And something that I still think is worthwhile, because I'm a sentimental idiot.

Except that it only ever works in one case, Isabela's. Fenris isn't helped, and Merrill, Anders and Sebastian all get worse.

[Aimi]

Except that it only ever works in one case, Isabela's. Fenris isn't helped, and Merrill, Anders and Sebastian all get worse.

YMMV, I suppose. I've followed both paths for Merrill and Isabela and thought that both were well done and made sense and that neither path was overall worse for their characters than the other.

[tmp7704]

No, but the rivalmances frequently do.

True, but it's by no means a mandatory part of the concept. Not to mention abuse in relationships and attempts to control/shape the other person happen frequently also in the pairings which aren't 'rivalmances', so I don't think it should be considered specific "feature" of these.

[Xilizhra]

YMMV, I suppose. I've followed both paths for Merrill and Isabela and thought that both were well done and made sense and that neither path was overall worse for their characters than the other.

I've followed Merrill's path, at least on Youtube, and it sucks on toast. At least, that's what I got out of it. Then again, I actually like her character.

[J-Reyno]

I experienced a bit of Merrill's rivalmance, but nothing abusive.  She and my rogue Hawke disagreed and argued from time to time.  I remember there being one particularly heated argument, but then later on she shows up and apologizes and suddenly sex.

 

It was the first romance-related event in a BW game to actually surprise me.  But I never went further with it because my Hawke made it clear that it was just something that happened and there was nothing further between them.  Maybe it gets bad if you continue with the relationship but I was pleasantly surprised by how that all played out.

[Jaison1986]

In rivalry, Merrill gives up on the mirror and moves on with her life. I don't see how that's bad for her.

[FraQ]

In the Cassandra interview with David Gaider:

 

"What we find in Inquisition is a Cassandra who's realizing the world doesn't work like she believed it does. Her duty is not absolute, and perhaps neither is her faith. Having doubt need not make either of those things weaker, however, and that's the path that Cassandra has to now walk."

 

Seems like the perfect scenario for a Rival based romance. She will question her beliefs and faith; With the outcome supposedly being influenced by her experiences in DA:I.

 

Something you, as the player, will have a lot of control over.

[Xilizhra]

In rivalry, Merrill gives up on the mirror and moves on with her life. I don't see how that's bad for her.

She does in friendship as well, without her self-confidence being systematically crushed.

[Maria Caliban]

I get rival points from Isabela by refusing a reward when offered. How does that tear down the core of who Isabela is?

I had a rivalry romance with Merrill where I helped her try to fix the mirror and consoled her after the Keeper's death. There's a difference between a rivaly romance and always picking the aggressive option in a conversation.

[Xilizhra]

I get rival points from Isabela by refusing a reward when offered. How does that tear down the core of who Isabela is?

I had a rivalry romance with Merrill where I helped her try to fix the mirror and consoled her after the Keeper's death. There's a difference between a rivaly romance always picking the aggressive option in a conversation.

Isabela's an exception to that. As for Merrill, wouldn't that necessitate you being extremely anti-mage if you gave her the arulin'holm and she was rivaled anyway?

[Jaison1986]

Isabela's an exception to that. As for Merrill, wouldn't that necessitate you being extremely anti-mage if you gave her the arulin'holm and she was rivaled anyway?

 

In the quest night terrors, you get 20 rivalry just by telling her not to trust an demon by using an diplomatic line. Destroying the evil tomes gain 10 rivalry each with Merrill, you are not being abusive by doing these things and you still gain rivalry.

[Xilizhra]

In the quest night terrors, you get 20 rivalry just by telling her not to trust an demon by using an diplomatic line. Destroying the evil tomes gain 10 rivalry each with Merrill, you are not being abusive by doing these things and you still gain rivalry.

And you cancel that rivalry once you talk to her after the quest for the Night Terrors one. As for the tomes, they alone won't be enough to counteract the friendship gain from giving her the arulin'holm... and even then, it makes no sense, because the entire rivalry relationship is predicated on not giving her the thing.

[Maria Caliban]

Giving her the arulin'holm is only +10 to friendship. Besides, after awhile, you get rivalry points for just flirting with her.

[Xilizhra]

Giving her the arulin'holm is only +10 to friendship. Besides, after awhile, you get rivalry points for just flirting with her.

Oh, so the entire plot is just broken, then. Because you can give her the tool and then have her be mad at you for not giving it to her...

[Maria Caliban]

Oh, so the entire plot is just broken, then. Because you can give her the tool and then have her be mad at you for not giving it to her...

No.

I gave it to her and she gave me 10 friendship. She never got angry at me for not giving it to her, but 10 friendship is easy enough to rival away.