291 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

No.

I gave it to her and she gave me 10 friendship. She never got angry at me for not giving it to her, but 10 friendship is easy enough to rival away.

Then what does she come to your house to apologize to you for, to kick off the romance scene?

[tmp7704]

Oh, so the entire plot is just broken, then. Because you can give her the tool and then have her be mad at you for not giving it to her...

Tbh significant others getting mad at you because they forgot you did something sounds less like broken and more like a perfectly normal and realistic relationship to me

[Jasuke34]

I posted this in another thread. I feel it is still relevant to this topic:

 

"Yeah, I do agree that Bioware seems to have difficult in recent games finding a balance? Like I get that due to the nature of life you won't be able to please everyone and naturally one side might be better than the other but it shouldn't be so heavily favored in one of the other. I mean I know there is the writing process, but I think the romances for each gender should cover a wide range of areas. I understand that some things might slip through the cracks, but those should be minor issues. Not huge ones like a widely held view. Just IMO."

 

Widely held view being...ant-chantry. Vivienne is pro-circle, but that's just returning to the status quo. Which lead to this whole mess. So honestly I think it sucks that I won't be able to in at least one of my play throughs be a power-hungry mage and evil...yet not be able to romance a female as straight male because they hate me for conquering the world as a mage.

[LobselVith8]

I liked the Merrill rivalmance for much the same reason as the Isabela rivalmance.

 

I never saw them as comparable. Helping Isabela become empathetic towards other people isn't the same as opposing Merrill's efforts to put an end to the plight of the People, since she focuses on other things after the abomination Marethari attempts to kill her. It comes off like a trope I despise where the human, Hawke, was telling Merrill, the elf, that she was wrong to focus on constructing elven technology that he knows absolutely nothing about.

 

Frankly, I greatly respected Merrill's attempts to help her people, and focus on providing them with advanced technology that could benefit the elves all across the scope of Thedas.

[Ailith Tycane]

Frankly, I greatly respected Merrill's attempts to help her people, and focus on providing them with advanced technology that could benefit the elves all across the scope of Thedas.

 

I didn't. Depending on your actions, her involvement with the tainted Eluvian can either cause the complete annihilation of her clan or the death of their keeper or both. Her intentions were good but her actions were not admirable.

[LobselVith8]

I didn't. Depending on your actions, her involvement with the tainted Eluvian can either cause the complete annihilation of her clan or the death of their keeper or both. Her intentions were good but her actions were not admirable.

 

It's not Merrill's fault that grown men and women attempt to commit cold blooded murder unless Hawke coddles them, and it's certainly not Merrill's fault that Marethari made one asinine decision after another, culminating in her releasing Audacity and attempting to kill Merrill as an abomination.

[Aimi]

I never saw them as comparable. Helping Isabela become empathetic towards other people isn't the same as opposing Merrill's efforts to put an end to the plight of the People, since she focuses on other things after the abomination Marethari attempts to kill her. It comes off like a trope I despise where the human, Hawke, was telling Merrill, the elf, that she was wrong to focus on constructing elven technology that he knows absolutely nothing about.
 
Frankly, I greatly respected Merrill's attempts to help her people, and focus on providing them with advanced technology that could benefit the elves all across the scope of Thedas.

That's you. This is me.

To reiterate: I've done both romance paths with Merrill (finally) and I thought both of them were okay. But it's pretty easy for me to justify a rivalmance on grounds that to me are not abusive at all.

I don't see fixing the Eluvian as being a sine qua non for the Preservation of Dalish Culture or whatever. Apart from Merrill, Hawke meets zero Dalish in the game who think that the Eluvian is either desirable or necessary, and she meets an awful lot of Dalish who think it's highly undesirable and highly dangerous. Respecting Merrill's Dalish heritage and connection doesn't mean helping her endanger other people and herself in order to preserve a part of that heritage. After all, the rest of her clan didn't think that that's what their Dalish heritage meant, either.

You're right that it's not for Hawke to determine for Merrill what her Dalishness means for her, because identity is deeply personal and yeah yeah yeah. But, as a friend, it would be irresponsible of Hawke to help Merrill do things that have an excellent chance of hurting good people. Some Hawkes might decide that the potential benefits outweigh the risks, or that their personal involvement might prevent Merrill from doing dangerous things on her own. That's fine. Again, that's you - and it's been me, too. But I don't see where "playing it safe with people's lives" necessarily becomes "abuse".

[Ailith Tycane]

It's not Merrill's fault that grown men and women attempt to commit cold blooded murder unless Hawke coddles them, and it's certainly not Merrill's fault that Marethari made one asinine decision after another, culminating in her releasing Audacity and attempting to kill Merrill as an abomination.

 

Yes it is. 

[Xilizhra]

Yes it is. 

Well, she's never used her blood magic for mind control, so I don't really see how.

[LobselVith8]

That's you. This is me.

To reiterate: I've done both romance paths with Merrill (finally) and I thought both of them were okay. But it's pretty easy for me to justify a rivalmance on grounds that to me are not abusive at all.

 

To each their own.

 

I don't see fixing the Eluvian as being a sine qua non for the Preservation of Dalish Culture or whatever. Apart from Merrill, Hawke meets zero Dalish in the game who think that the Eluvian is either desirable or necessary, and she meets an awful lot of Dalish who think it's highly undesirable and highly dangerous. Respecting Merrill's Dalish heritage and connection doesn't mean helping her endanger other people and herself in order to preserve a part of that heritage. After all, the rest of her clan didn't think that that's what their Dalish heritage meant, either.

 

The clan trusts Marethari. The members of the Sabrae Clan were told Merrill would bring back the taint by working on the Eluvian, as Marethari openly admits in an attempt to coerce her to come back to the clan. Between the Keeper and the former First, Merrill studied the lore and extrapolated information from the shard, while Marethari thinks it shouldn't be studied and that it should simply remain buried.

 

You're right that it's not for Hawke to determine for Merrill what her Dalishness means for her, because identity is deeply personal and yeah yeah yeah. But, as a friend, it would be irresponsible of Hawke to help Merrill do things that have an excellent chance of hurting good people. Some Hawkes might decide that the potential benefits outweigh the risks, or that their personal involvement might prevent Merrill from doing dangerous things on her own. That's fine. Again, that's you - and it's been me, too. But I don't see where "playing it safe with people's lives" necessarily becomes "abuse".

 

Marethari's argument is that Merrill will bring the taint. Since Merrill already cleansed the shard of the taint years ago (which is why she needed to learn blood magic, as she lacked the necessary lyrium to cleanse it with ordinary magic), and she isn't a ghoul after spending a few years building her own Eluvian, Hawke should know that she isn't going to risk bringing the taint, having seen what happened to Wesley (and possibly his own sibling).

[LobselVith8]

Well, she's never used her blood magic for mind control, so I don't really see how.

 

Apparently, Merrill is responsible for the actions of other grown adults who have free will over their own actions.

[Xilizhra]

I think the Merrill friendly romance sucks for one reason. She tells Hawke that the Dalish would get somewhere, if only they had someone like Hawke. What a sad state of affairs for a Dalish to say.

She never did with me.

[Jasuke34]

Meh...all things considered....I think my first play through is going to worry less about mage-rigths and more about Elf pride and restoring arlathan if that is an option. I'll still be a mage....but a dalish mage!

[jlb524]

She never did with me.

 

It's a male only romance line.

[Ailith Tycane]

Well, she's never used her blood magic for mind control, so I don't really see how.

 

You don't have to use mind control on people for your actions to influence them. She got involved with a tainted mirror and started using blood magic. She didn't want her keeper to become possessed but her actions are what led to it, so yes it was her fault. 

[LobselVith8]

I think the Merrill friendly romance sucks for one reason. She tells Hawke that the Dalish would get somewhere, if only they had someone like Hawke. What a sad state of affairs for a Dalish to say.

 

Nobody said Merrill was flawless. 

[jlb524]

I think the Merrill friendly romance sucks for one reason. She tells Hawke that the Dalish would get somewhere, if only they had someone like Hawke. What a sad state of affairs for a Dalish to say.

 

It's not sad if it's Funny!Hawke tho.

[Jaison1986]

Apparently, Merrill is responsible for the actions of other grown adults who have free will over their own actions.

 

I just want to know one thing. Do you honestly think that anything that happened there would have still happened if Merrill simply left that Eluvian alone and never touched it again?

[MisterJB]

I never saw them as comparable. Helping Isabela become empathetic towards other people isn't the same as opposing Merrill's efforts to put an end to the plight of the People, since she focuses on other things after the abomination Marethari attempts to kill her. It comes off like a trope I despise where the human, Hawke, was telling Merrill, the elf, that she was wrong to focus on constructing elven technology that he knows absolutely nothing about.

 

Frankly, I greatly respected Merrill's attempts to help her people, and focus on providing them with advanced technology that could benefit the elves all across the scope of Thedas.

Myself, I was just upset she would experiment with it in the middle of Kikrwall who is not exactly demon or magic-free to begin with.

Elven "technology" for the good of elves. But if Merril messes up, who is gonna pay the price? Humans.

[HiroVoid]

I think the Merrill friendly romance sucks for one reason. She tells Hawke that the Dalish would get somewhere, if only they had someone like Hawke. What a sad state of affairs for a Dalish to say.

Merrill's just telling it how it is.

[LobselVith8]

I just want to know one thing. Do you honestly think that anything that happened there would have still happened if Merrill simply left that Eluvian alone and never touched it again?

 

I think it's ridiculous to blame Merrill for the actions of other people. That's the issue. No one forced Marethari to release Audacity; no one forces the clan to attempt to murder Merrill and Hawke if the Champion doesn't coddle them upon the hunters learning Marethari became an abomination. Blaming Merrill for the actions of other people? No, I'm going to blame those individuals who took those actions, not Merrill.

[Xilizhra]

You don't have to use mind control on people for your actions to influence them. She got involved with a tainted mirror and started using blood magic. She didn't want her keeper to become possessed but her actions are what led to it, so yes it was her fault. 

The mirror wasn't tainted once she was finished with it, and the blood magic didn't just get up on its own and start seizing control of Marethari. It was Marethari's choice alone.

 

 

I just want to know one thing. Do you honestly think that anything that happened there would have still happened if Merrill simply left that Eluvian alone and never touched it again?

Do you honestly think that anything would have happened there if Marethari had stopped poisoning the clan against Merrill and left her alone?

 

 

Myself, I was just upset she would experiment with it in the middle of Kikrwall who is not exactly demon or magic-free to begin with.

Elven "technology" for the good of elves. But if Merril messes up, who is gonna pay the price? Humans.

The Eluvian doesn't link to the Fade, there was never any prospect of that happening.