48 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

There's no real evidence to say anything for certain. But if you're a female character and you're in a romance with Alistair and plan to marry him to her, you can find out Cailan had mistresses on the side. Many in fact, and Anora always knew. No bastards have ever popped up so it's likely Cailan was shooting blanks. IIRC, David Gaider said on his tumblr that the Theirin family haven't been the most noteworthy when it comes to having children, so that speaks of some problems right off the bat.

 

It's also possible that Anora and Cailan just never had sex, though given the intimacy of their relationship whether you accept that or not is wholly up to you.

 

And it's possible that yes, Anora is barren. Or that she and he were both incapable of having children.

 

Still, that doesn't mean anything when it comes to ruling. Some of the most famous people who ruled empires or kingdoms adopted children and groomed them for taking up their mantle. Nothing stopping Anora from taking a child a mother might not want, raising it as her own, and telling everyone he or she is her child.

[TEWR]

Uh...

 

Alistair disapproves -1000?

 

Edit: I get that it was just a mistake but I mean oh ****. What an end to that Landsmeet.

 

Your profile avatar of Sandal is the perfect reaction image to that.

[TEWR]

Even the suggestion that Anora is infertile is good grounds for divorce, especially in favor of a politically powerful marriage to Celene the empress of Orlais (to Loghains intense joy lol)
As the Therin line might die out there would, I think, be strong motivation to blame anyone else except Cailan himself.

 

Hell no. Ferelden's monarch being married to Celene would be utterly disastrous. A war's brewing with Nevarra as we speak between Orlais and the aforementioned country, not to mention old prejudices being inflamed again, and Ferelden being reduced to a puppet state. There's all kinds of problems with Ferelden going over to Orlais' side in the name of "peace" given their tumultuous history.

[Hugebull]

We know Alistair can't be infertile since he can be the father of the OGB.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

It would also make the whole Landsmeet basically pointless. The whole point of the Landsmeet was to bring Ferelden back together and I'm going to call it cheap for the throne to become empty again despite our efforts.

 

If Fiona, an elven Grey Warden (two combined traits which make child-bearing with a human difficult by themselves) can have a kid with Maric, then Alistair (whose already potentially knocked up one woman so he's fertile for at least a while longer) or Anora (I think Awakening implied that she's already with the Warden-King's child? Just something I saw based on Loghain's dialogue in his cameo) should be able to have at least 1 heir in the next 10 years. Even the F'WardenxAlistair coupling shouldn't be left in the dust despite it's stark nigh-impossibility, just come up with a logical reason why their case was the exception to the rule (Avernus, fertility idol, or just lots of coitus)

 

We've got enough bleakness, having yet another succession crisis is just asking for people to call bull$#@&!

 

 

 

While it's rare that Grey Wardens to have children after becoming one it does happen. Also does anyone know for sure that Fiona is Alistair's mother?

 

Now if Alistair is not the son of Maric and Fiona then there is another son of the Therein bloodline out there, it then becomes a question of Alistair finding him, that is if Maric and Fiona left any records of their son's birth to find.

[sylvanaerie]

Gaider is deliberately vague concerning Fiona and Alistair.  Many believe she is, but it has never been confirmed by any devs.  The timeline for the game is all whacked out anyway.  I have heard the book/comics are not to be considered "canon" but rather 'alternate versions' of the game histories.  Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't.

 

Also, we have only Anora's word Cailan was stepping out on her, and I tend to take anything she says with a grain of salt.  It is conceivable he was barren, or both were, or neither (as birth control is discussed as available in a convo with Wynne and Alistair).  Since he is dead, and the dead ain't talkin', I guess we will never know for sure.

[theskymoves]

 

Also, we have only Anora's word Cailan was stepping out on her, and I tend to take anything she says with a grain of salt.  

 

May I marry that bolded bit? Because I am smitten, and it might even be True Love. 

[dragonflight288]

Considering how much Loghain is meddling into his daughter's affairs, HNM might as well marry him.

 

If Loghain lives, he is stationed in Orlais to keep him from meddling, as he puts it. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Gaider is deliberately vague concerning Fiona and Alistair.  Many believe she is, but it has never been confirmed by any devs.  The timeline for the game is all whacked out anyway.  I have heard the book/comics are not to be considered "canon" but rather 'alternate versions' of the game histories.  Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't.

That only applies to the books whose events can be shaped by the player's actions. Which means that the ones that happened before the games are entirely canon.

[dragonflight288]

Hell no. Ferelden's monarch being married to Celene would be utterly disastrous. A war's brewing with Nevarra as we speak between Orlais and the aforementioned country, not to mention old prejudices being inflamed again, and Ferelden being reduced to a puppet state. There's all kinds of problems with Ferelden going over to Orlais' side in the name of "peace" given their tumultuous history.

 

Concerning Nevarra and so on, I think a bit of dialogue from Loghain and Wynne is appropriate here.

 

• Loghain: The cheating bastard!
• Wynne: Watch your mouth, Loghain Mac Tir, unless you have forgotten the company you now keep!
• Loghain: It's not my company I worry about, madam, but my former son-in-law's! Do you see the familiar tone with which the empress writes him, as if my daughter were not already his wife?
• Wynne: Cailan loved Anora with every ounce of his heart. It was plain for all to see. The only thing that ever stood between them was you.
• Loghain: Are you blind, old woman? The plot is plain as day within this letter! Love or no, Cailan was going to cast my daughter aside and wed himself to that ******, Celene. In a single vow, Orlais would claim all that they could never win by war! And what would Ferelden gain? Our fool of a king could strut about and call himself an emperor.
• Wynne: And what of peace? Would it not bring us that, at least?
• Loghain: Peace? I would have thought your age might have granted more wisdom, madam. Peace just means fighting someone else's enemies in someone else's war for someone else's reasons.

[Jeffonl1]

Here's some comments from Gaider on the matter:
http://dragonage.wik...elene_&_Loghain

[Sawtooth357]

Is birth control ever mentioned in the Dragon Age universe? It seems if magic can increase the chances of a warden having a child, it could also decrease the chances of a normal human having one. Although I can't imagine who would benefit from the lack of an heir...besides Orlais, and Orlesian bards secretly giving Anora birth control to steer Cailan towards marrying the Empress....that's a little too paranoid for me.

[Mike3207]

"Loghain: Are you blind, old woman? The plot is plain as day within this letter! Love or no, Cailan was going to cast my daughter aside and wed himself to that ******, Celene. In a single vow, Orlais would claim all that they could never win by war! And what would Ferelden gain? Our fool of a king could strut about and call himself an emperor."

I love it when Dog barks at Loghain when he mentions the ***** bit.

[theskymoves]

Is birth control ever mentioned in the Dragon Age universe? It seems if magic can increase the chances of a warden having a child, it could also decrease the chances of a normal human having one. Although I can't imagine who would benefit from the lack of an heir...besides Orlais, and Orlesian bards secretly giving Anora birth control to steer Cailan towards marrying the Empress....that's a little too paranoid for me.

 

Wynne says something in one of the banters with Alistair. *looks it up because accurate is good and bolds the applicable passage*

 

Alistair: So you... mentioned you had a son? What happened to him?
Wynne: I honestly don't know, Alistair. He was... taken from me. Such births are seldom, as there are ways to prevent it, but it does happen. And any child born to a Circle mage belongs to the Chantry.

 

Whether she is referring to contraception, or abortion, is open to interpretation, I suppose. I tend to think the former. YMMV.

[KC_Prototype]

She won't be with my Warden

[Han Shot First]

While it's rare that Grey Wardens to have children after becoming one it does happen. Also does anyone know for sure that Fiona is Alistair's mother?

 

 

No, the devs have mostly been quiet on that one. It is a popular fan theory by those who have read the books, but there are some major problems with it. The first is that Alistair is older than the child Fiona had. Secondly, Loghain states that Maric never acknowledged Alistair as his son for Rowan's sake, as it would have reduced her to the role of concubine in the eyes of the people of Ferelden. Rowan was already long dead when Maric sired a bastard with Fiona, so that son can't be Alistair. And finally, we meet Alistair's sister in game and are told that their mother was a serving girl.

 

In short, without massive retconning it makes more sense for Maric to have fathered more than one bastard and for Alistair and Fiona's son to be different people.

[theskymoves]

No, the devs have mostly been quiet on that one. It is a popular fan theory by those who have read the books, but there are some major problems with it. The first is that Alistair is older than the child Fiona had. Secondly, Loghain states that Maric never acknowledged Alistair as his son for Rowan's sake, as it would have reduced her to the role of concubine in the eyes of the people of Ferelden. Rowan was already long dead when Maric sired a bastard with Fiona, so that son can't be Alistair. And finally, we meet Alistair's sister in game and are told that their mother was a serving girl.

 

In short, without massive retconning it makes more sense for Maric to have fathered more than one bastard and for Alistair and Fiona's son to be different people.

 

There's no 'massive' retconning' necessary, at all.

 

Events of The Calling: 9:10 Dragon. [x]

Alistair's birth: 9:10 Dragon. [The World of Thedas, Volume 1, p.140]

 

*does math and has Alistair send Fiona a Mother's Day card and a dozen magical Lothering roses*

 

I'm not especially fond of Maric and I am always loathe to defend him, but from what we've seen of his character, he was not a womaniser. 

 

The references to protecting Rowan are likely leftover from the original, abandoned storyline that had Alistair as an older Warden. Note that Alistair also makes reference to his existence being hidden because he would threaten Cailan's claim - "I was inconvenient, a possible threat to Cailan's rule and so they kept me secret." - which is just absurd. As a younger bastard, he would never be a threat to a an older, legitimate heir's claim.

 

And we meet who Alistair believes is his sister. /unpopular opinions before breakfast

[Han Shot First]

There's no 'massive' retconning' necessary, at all.

 

Events of The Calling: 9:10 Dragon. [x]

Alistair's birth: 9:10 Dragon. [The World of Thedas, Volume 1, p.140]

 

 

 

There would need to be retconning, as Loghain states that Maric did not acknowledge Alistair as his son for fear of reducing Rowan to the status of concubine in the eyes of the people. Rowan was dead when Maric had his dalliance with Fiona, so there would no fear of shaming Rowan.  A deceased woman can neither be the victim of infidelity or a concubine.

 

Having Alistair be Fiona's son would also require an explanation for Goldanna and her mother. Since they are presented as Alistair's family in the game, having them turn out not to be such in a sequel (or outside media like a book) would be a retcon. And how is it that Goldanna's mother died in childbirth? Who is that child, and what happened to it?

 

Now if the World of Thedas listed 9:10 Dragon as Alistair's birth date to give him the same D.O.B. as Fiona's son, it is entirely possible that a retcon of Alistair's origins is where they are headed. I'm among the camp that hopes they aren't headed that route, because I'm not a fan of retcons in general, and because this is bound to create problems in the story. Already there are holes in the Fiona's son theory, and I can't see Bioware managing to plug them all up in a satisfying manner. 

 

It just makes more sense for Fiona's son to be a different person.

 

 

theskymoves, on 05 Jul 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:]

 

I'm not especially fond of Maric and I am always loathe to defend him, but from what we've seen of his character, he was not a womaniser.

 

Two women (three, counting Rowan) over the course of several years does not a womanizer make.

[TEWR]

I seem to recall Gaider saying that Alistair was the only known bastard of Maric's out there in the world.

[Xetykins]

 
Two women (three, counting Rowan) over the course of several years does not a womanizer make.

Rowan and Maric's marriage was arranged from craddle, so really no feelings there. Katriel was a bard who seduced Maric as a very young man. Looking at what we know about bards, Maric did not stand a chance. Rowan died a long time before Fiona. I wouldnt call that a womanizer. It would be saying " your wife died so you cant find another one and doomed to be alone"

[Jaison1986]

Rowan and Maric's marriage was arranged from craddle, so really no feelings there. Katriel was a bard who seduced Maric as a very young man. Looking at what we know about bards, Maric did not stand a chance. Rowan died a long time before Fiona. I wouldnt call that a womanizer. It would be saying " your wife died so you cant find another one and doomed to be alone"

 

More like not being able to keep his pants in place. The fact Maric left apparently 3 children, two being outside of marriage, doesn't give him the best resume.

[gottaloveme]

Babies. Having never happened before don't mean it can't. If you listen to Bodahn he'll say that no heir is the Maker's punishment for Anora being a commoner. And yes, it was quite common for Lords to put aside barren wives only to have them remarry and pop out lots of kiddies. But honestly Cailan, Celene?! Really?

 

By the way, in my little corner of Ferelden, good ol' Avernus has come thru and my warden and King Al have a string of babies and live to be eleventyeleven years old and never have to give up the throne.

[Xetykins]

More like not being able to keep his pants in place. The fact Maric left apparently 3 children, two being outside of marriage, doesn't give him the best resume.

True. Still does not make him a panty chaser, just a horrible father. Theres a huge difference. Im saying this as a woman who can spot a dirty womanizer from a mile away and his character doesnt even come close.

[House Lannister]

Could be one of the reasons why Cailan was about to align with the Empress through marriage.