202 réponses à ce sujet

[vallore]

Argh. Shepard is alive at the end of Destroy. That's that.

Except, of course, if she isn’t...

 

 

Seriously, that ending was meant to go both ways, and it still requires far more headcanon if you want to make you Shepard to survive than not.

[KaiserShep]

Well that's because death is easy. Shep could slip on a bar of soap in the Citadel and die from the accident and it wouldn't require any head cannon at all. In any case, the environment is clearly stable if a breath scene happens at all. Add to that the fact that Shepard is essentially a cyborg that is apparently far more resilient than a normal person, and there you have it.

[vallore]

Well that's because death is easy. Shep could slip on a bar of soap in the Citadel and die from the accident and it wouldn't require any head cannon at all. In any case, the environment is clearly stable if a breath scene happens at all. Add to that the fact that Shepard is essentially a cyborg that is apparently far more resilient than a normal person, and there you have it.

 

Compare with the ending of ME1 &2: imagining Shepard lives does not require any headcanon, as we clearly see her alive there, with no impending threat.

 

Now, imagining Shepard suddenly dying in ME1 &2, actually requires head canon, and your unlikely accident certainly does, albeit just a  little. But, considering those endings,  if we wanted to create a convincing, credible reason it would require a lot more effort.

 

On the other hand, with ME3 we get a cliffhanger; Shepard is left in a desperate situation, seriously wounded, and no one around to help her.   The station is clearly ruined, the fleet abandoned the system, no one is around and, cyborg or not, she doesn’t sound/look good; certainly her chances do not look particularly high.

 

Death only requires imagining that what we saw was her last breath, or that she would die soon, alone, due to her wounds; saving her requires a lot more answers.

 

 Imo, the reason so many clearly feel that the scene “must” imply Shepard survives is because it is the only option where that can happen at all; so for them “it must” mean Shepard survives. But I also remember, (waay back then),  that others players wanted to keep the scene “as is” precisely because it allowed them to “kill their Shepard” in destroy, without further headcanon requirements…

[AlanC9]

 

 Imo, the reason so many clearly feel that the scene “must” imply Shepard survives is because it is the only option where that can happen at all; so for them “it must” mean Shepard survives. 

 

 

Actually, it's that the scene serves no purpose if Shepard doesn't survive, and such scenes have always indicated in the past that the character in question survives. 

 

It's never been precisely clear to me why interpreting an RPG cutscene would be any different from interpreting the same scene in a TV program or movie. I know some folks here take a different approach, but the reason remains obscure even after years of this nonsense.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Except, of course, if she isn’t...

 

 

Seriously, that ending was meant to go both ways, and it still requires far more headcanon if you want to make you Shepard to survive than not.

 

BW has confirmed that Shepard is indeed alive. Granted, they picked a rather crummy way of displaying that, but Shepard has indeed survived.

[KaiserShep]

I always thought that the scene would've looked better with a search light or something, maybe engine noise of a shuttle to imply an impending rescue. The scene remains intact yet offers a great deal more in the process. Of course, a downside would be that it may inadvertently provide more fuel for the IT crowd that Shepard never left Earth.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I always thought that the scene would've looked better with a search light or something, maybe engine noise of a shuttle to imply an impending rescue. The scene remains intact yet offers a great deal more in the process. Of course, a downside would be that it may inadvertently provide more fuel for the IT crowd that Shepard never left Earth.

 

Well apparently, I've heard that an idea for the scene would be a hand grasping Shepard's and pulling him out of the rubble.

 

Personally, I'd have preferred if it was on an emergency room table, with the LI (or a Doctor) standing over Shepard and the LI grabbing his hand if he breathes.

[KaiserShep]

That works too. I have a fairly low requirement when it comes to making such a reveal work and getting rid of that pesky ambiguity. I think the memorial scene should have been on Earth though.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

That works too. I have a fairly low requirement when it comes to making such a reveal work and getting rid of that pesky ambiguity. I think the memorial scene should have been on Earth though.

 

Eh, I wish we had more control over who lived and died, ala the Suicide Mission. Without having to blow chances. I definitely did not want a lot of my Squadmates walking away from the series alive.

[Bob from Accounting]

I would say yes.

Although it has pretty much nothing to do with the clone and everything to do with the dialogue from the squadmates.

[themikefest]

.

On the other hand, with ME3 we get a cliffhanger; Shepard is left in a desperate situation, seriously wounded, and no one around to help her.   The station is clearly ruined, the fleet abandoned the system, no one is around and, cyborg or not, she doesn’t sound/look good; certainly her chances do not look particularly high.

 

Shepard does survive. I wouldn't be surprised if C-sec finds Shepard a short time later and takes him/her to a hospital for treatment.

[KaiserShep]

I think it's more likely that a team from the ground would hit the Citadel once the reapers are neutralized. I doubt C-Sec can really reach the platform, not to mention the chaos the station would be in after chunks of it were blown off. After all, the station is a humongous space city and finding survivors would be fairly high priority.

[themikefest]

I think it's more likely that a team from the ground would hit the Citadel once the reapers are neutralized. I doubt C-Sec can really reach the platform, not to mention the chaos the station would be in after chunks of it were blown off. After all, the station is a humongous space city and finding survivors would be fairly high priority.

What do you mean a team from the ground? A team on Earth? I highly doubt that since they will be more worried about whats happened on Earth instead of the Citadel.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

::shrug:  Would have made as much sense as any other example of space magic we're given.

 

I mean, Shepard's already the freaking messiah of the galaxy, might as well act the part.

 

My Shepard's more of a dark messiah.

[KaiserShep]

The Citadel houses well over 10 million people. Unless it was totally obliterated in orbit, it wouldn't simply be forgotten. Aside from that, there's also the non-human forces that would still be alive on Earth. The turians, salarians and asari would certainly be concerned.

 

Of course there's also the fleets that were in orbit. It's doubtful that they'd fall back so far that it would take forever for them to return.

[vallore]

Actually, it's that the scene serves no purpose if Shepard doesn't survive, and such scenes have always indicated in the past that the character in question survives. 

 

 Imo, the purpose is to be a compromise between, two positions:

 

 “Shepard should survive in at least one ending” and “Shepard must die in all endings.”

 

What we get is as ambiguous as they could make it, with the slant put towards the death bit.

 

 

It's never been precisely clear to me why interpreting an RPG cutscene would be any different from interpreting the same scene in a TV program or movie. I know some folks here take a different approach, but the reason remains obscure even after years of this nonsense.

 

Actually, I would argue that the way such kind of scene can be interpreted depends of the context of the story and personal inclination of the viewer. In an RPG this is accentuated because we don’t have a single clearly defined story, but rather multiple parallel stories, (similar, yet different), that can have very different moods, and put emphasis in different themes. That you see it as always meaning that ”he/she survives” is just indicative of your personal outlook.

[vallore]

BW has confirmed that Shepard is indeed alive. Granted, they picked a rather crummy way of displaying that, but Shepard has indeed survived.

 

 If I remember correctly, the argument I saw BW defend in these forums was that it could mean both... 

 

I always thought that the scene would've looked better with a search light or something, maybe engine noise of a shuttle to imply an impending rescue. The scene remains intact yet offers a great deal more in the process. Of course, a downside would be that it may inadvertently provide more fuel for the IT crowd that Shepard never left Earth.

 

Quite; this makes particular sense when BW went out of the way to show Shepard’s death in the other endings. Therefore showing survival explicitly would be consistent. Imo, that survival remains implied ambiguously makes sense only if the ambiguity is the goal itself.

 

Shepard does survive. I wouldn't be surprised if C-sec finds Shepard a short time later and takes him/her to a hospital for treatment.

 

That depends, of course of the player's head canon and her personal view of the situation; if you can create one that you find to be a comfortable solution to the situation BW left Shepard in than, that’s great! Unfortunately, considering what I’ve seen, that is far to be universal; they should have shown a more clearly defined survival, if that was indeed their goal.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

 If I remember correctly, the argument I saw BW defend in these forums was that it could mean both... 

 

That was Chris Priestly trolling. Priestly was known for not being very... delicate with fans who had 'conflicting' views. I say it like that at risk of being banned if I even try to elaborate further. 

 

Plus, he was their PR/Community Manager at the time, with hardly anything to do with the game making process.

 

I think it was Tully Ackland that came out and confirmed that the breathe scene was indeed Shepard surviving.

[DeinonSlayer]

OK, I'll restate it.

My headcanon around the "Shepard Lives" ending is that Commander Bailey took a C-Sec SRU to the Citadel Tower when the Reapers attacked in an unsuccessful bid to re-open the ward arms. We know there are survivors on the Citadel; the ward arms are thick with air car traffic when seen in the TIM confrontation. Without the data file Shepard used last time, though, Bailey wouldn't be able to open them.

When the Crucible was docked and the ward arms opened, communication went out from Shepard to Hackett. From that, a location could be derived. Bailey and co then began to make their way back down the tower towards where the Crucible was docked. They rode out the activation and were ultimately the first responders on the scene.

A stretch? No more than Shepard surviving in the first place. See also "no Endor holocaust."

[themikefest]

That depends, of course of the player's head canon and her personal view of the situation; if you can create one that you find to be a comfortable solution to the situation BW left Shepard in than, that’s great! Unfortunately, considering what I’ve seen, that is far to be universal; they should have shown a more clearly defined survival, if that was indeed their goal.

On the disk it clearly says Shepard survives and MassiveEffective0730 mentioned above, Tully Ackland confirmed Shepard survived.

 

This is what I posted on the other page that I would've done

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

 If I remember correctly, the argument I saw BW defend in these forums was that it could mean both... 

 

 

Quite; this makes particular sense when BW went out of the way to show Shepard’s death in the other endings. Therefore showing survival explicitly would be consistent. Imo, that survival remains implied ambiguously makes sense only if the ambiguity is the goal itself.

 

 

That depends, of course of the player's head canon and her personal view of the situation; if you can create one that you find to be a comfortable solution to the situation BW left Shepard in than, that’s great! Unfortunately, considering what I’ve seen, that is far to be universal; they should have shown a more clearly defined survival, if that was indeed their goal.

 

The executive producer's intent - Hudson's - was that if you gathered enough resources Shepard would survive the destroy ending. That is why the breath scene got put in there in the first place. There was no ambiguity.... until the troll at SDCC.

 

I played the original ending on March 22nd 2012. I chose Destroy. I got the breath scene. My first reaction was: "Phew, survived." The feeling of emptiness was the aftermath... the mass relays were destroyed. I'd never see Liara again, or any of my team. I knew Liara, Javik and Joker made it. Was anyone else still alive? How would the Turians, Asari, and Quarians get home? What about the Krogan?

 

It was definite that Shepard survived high EMS destroy, otherwise there was no purpose for the scene.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

The executive producer's intent - Hudson's - was that if you gathered enough resources Shepard would survive the destroy ending. That is why the breath scene got put in there in the first place. There was no ambiguity.... until the troll at SDCC.

 

I played the original ending on March 22nd 2012. I chose Destroy. I got the breath scene. My first reaction was: "Phew, survived." The feeling of emptiness was the aftermath... the mass relays were destroyed. I'd never see Liara again, or any of my team. I knew Liara, Javik and Joker made it. Was anyone else still alive? How would the Turians, Asari, and Quarians get home? What about the Krogan?

 

It was definite that Shepard survived high EMS destroy, otherwise there was no purpose for the scene.

 

My first ending was on March 9th, at around 4:49 AM. I got Synthesis. I was traumatized for about a week.

[themikefest]

I picked the destroy ending March 7 2012 and died. It was only a few days later that I learned, through multiplayer to get enough ems, that Shepard can survive.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I picked the destroy ending March 7 2012 and died. It was only a few days later that I learned, through multiplayer to get enough ems, that Shepard can survive.

 

I was playing multi-player daily to make sure my readiness stayed at 100% before I entered Battle of London and before I entered the beam. I didn't know anything about it. I just knew that I needed 100% readiness to get the best result. I was on the 360 with a gold account so what the hey. That was why it took so long to finish the game. Plus I was only playing in the evenings.

 

Too bad the MP wasn't made clear for everyone.

[vallore]

That was Chris Priestly trolling. Priestly was known for not being very... delicate with fans who had 'conflicting' views. I say it like that at risk of being banned if I even try to elaborate further. 

 

Plus, he was their PR/Community Manager at the time, with hardly anything to do with the game making process.

 

I think it was Tully Ackland that came out and confirmed that the breathe scene was indeed Shepard surviving.

 

 

Interesting, I haven’t read it before… did you mean this?

 

http://forum.bioware...ilers/#12758842

 

 

A memorial scene was added, partly to show a close bond between Shepard and the love interest. The scene is variable, and if Shepard has a love interest in a given playthrough, it will be that character who places Shepard’s name on the memorial wall.

You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

 

Imo, considering the words used; the scene, after the EC, is described as meant to give hope, not certainties.(My interpretation: Shepard survived and is still alive - at that moment - if in a rather precarious situation, and because she is still alive, there is hope she may survive and rejoin the LI).

 

Note that I’m not saying that the scene cannot be seen as a “Shepard lives,”  - far from it! – rather, I’m pointing that they kept more than enough ample room for the scene to also mean the opposite, and I believe that is deliberate.

 

Regardless, more importantly is, imo, if the scene was balanced enough to provide a “comfortable” way out for the player to head canon her way out of the situation, whatever the player preference was. Personally I don’t think so and, since I saw a lot of complaints about it, that seems to be the case of a significant part of the audience.

 

 

On the disk it clearly says Shepard survives and MassiveEffective0730 mentioned above, Tully Ackland confirmed Shepard survived.

 

This is what I posted on the other page that I would've done

 

Disk?

 

 

This is what I posted on the other page that I would've done

 

Nope. It was Conrad Verner. Yep, it was all him.(…well almost)

 

After escaping with the help of his (far) more competent girlfriend from husks, (and other reaper troops), into the keeper tunnels, they came upon a rather ruined chamber, (well, they actually fell into it... blame Conrad).

 

In the fall they narrowly avoid an inert, half-burned body nearby. (You guess it: it was Shepard).

 

Fortunately,   in a rather uncommon moment of good sense, Conrad had taken a moment to grab a rather large pack of medigel from the refugee centre before escaping…and Jenna manage to apply it and stabilize Shepard…